blu-ray for storage

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by matteusclement, Dec 10, 2011.

  1. matteusclement macrumors 65816

    matteusclement

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    #1
    I have a nice hard drive set up for my workflow, but as far as backing up data, hard drives always leave me worried, even in raid 0.
    Has anyone used BR as a storage solution? I am shooting on a canon t2i and would be storing just the raw footage.
     
  2. techfreak85 macrumors 68040

    techfreak85

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    #2
    Blu Rays can be damaged much more easily (due to scratching, snapping, whatever) and have a bigger change of being lost. Also, hard drives are reusable. Is you biggest fear with hard drives just data loss due to a faulty drive?
     
  3. jackrv macrumors 6502

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    #3
    Without delving into RAID setups, which really aren't backups themselves, I would suggest 2 separate external drives (raided or not). Have 1 as a time machine backup for quick restores and no-thought backups. Have a second drive where you can either copy your libraries or use something like carbon copy cloner to periodically clone your system. You can keep this drive in a separate location from your computer until you need to backup/clone again or restore.

    This would hold much more data than a blu ray and be less susceptible to damage.
     
  4. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #4
    The biggest threat to a writable Blu-ray disc is light. They are recorded using light and can be bleached by light faster than you can say "Jackie Robinson." Then there is the issue of capacity. Computer hard drive capacity has far out-stripped the practicality of using optical discs for backup. Let us also assume that your computer's hard drive has capacity 500 GB, modest by today's standards. Let us assume that you intend to use 50 GB double layer BD-R DL writable Blu-ray discs for backup. This means that you may need ten BD-R DL discs for the job. That's an entire 10-disc spindle. OTOH, you may store two complete back-ups on a single 1 TB external drive.
     
  5. mBox macrumors 68020

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    #5
    Ive done it for years, just to slow for my liking.
    If you have deep pockets use an LTO or more RAID.
     
  6. matteusclement thread starter macrumors 65816

    matteusclement

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    #6
    I have the a few 1tb wd blacks kicking around. I guess I could throw them into an enclosure and do a raid 0 or 10.

    It also helps to point out that hard drives are going to be stupid expensive for the next year due to thailand flooding.
    BR discs are $1 each and these will be stored in a CD jacket in my closet.

    @techfreak - yeah, as a computer techie, I have just seen too many people come to tears over lost memories. I almost had the same thing happen when a hard drive went on me but the thing that saved me? a burnt DVD.

    OH, the other thing too is how to get that footage to the client sometimes... ugh.
     
  7. flynz4 macrumors 68040

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    #7
    I strongly echo the "do not use optical media for backup" sentiment.

    The most reliable method is to have dual backup... one locally (ex: TimeMachine)... and the second being to the cloud. At $3/month for unlimited secure cloud backup... it is the least expensive and most secure option available.

    /Jim
     
  8. techfreak85 macrumors 68040

    techfreak85

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    #8
    The likelihood of two hard drives (especially from different production batches) dying at the same time is rather low. I wouldn't worry about it too much as long as you have some sort of redundancy (either manually having two copies of files or in a RAID 1). I guess if you need it, practice 321 backups.
     
  9. matteusclement thread starter macrumors 65816

    matteusclement

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    #9
    $3/month cloud? where?! how? please tell me.
     
  10. flynz4 macrumors 68040

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    #10
    I am using Crashplan+ for my cloud backup. The cost is $3/month for a single computer, or $6/month for all the computers that you own (maybe a limit of 10) on a family plan.

    I have two daughters in college living away from home (one international). Between the 4 of us, we have 3 iMacs and 3 Macbook Airs (probably 4/4 by mid 2012). They are all backed up on the family plan for $6/month. The largest single backup set (my iMac) is currently 1.2 TB of data.

    All the data is encrypted on your own machine using 448b blowfish encryption... which means that it will never be cracked in my lifetime. They also have a seeding service (US only) where for a fee, they will send you a drive... you backup locally (still encrypted so it is safe)... and then mail it back.

    I have my computers set to do incremental back-ups every 15 minutes. It works spectacularly and you never even realize it is there. I have done some test restores with perfect results.

    www.crashplan.com

    /Jim

    ----------

    I agree that it is overkill to protect against more than one HDD failure at the same time... except if they are in the same location. That is why I like to have a local backup for ease of restore, and an offsite backup for disaster recovery. I do not believe in any backup solution that requires human intervention of any type... which is why I believe that the offsite backup is best implemented via the cloud if you have sufficient bandwidth to support it.

    For most consumers... once you have performed the initial backup... then the incremental backup is quite minimal. For a video proaction house (as an example)... there probably is not enough bandwidth to keep up with the business, so more complicated (and hence less secure/more expensive) backup strategy may be necessary.

    /Jim
     
  11. careypo macrumors member

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    Oct 15, 2011
    #11
    I would favor optical storage over hard drives. Putting a hard drive on the shelf will cause the grease in the bearings to harden over time. The drive will no longer spin up and all of the data will be lost. As long as, you keep your optical media in light tight cases and away from bright lights, they should last a long time.

    Backing up optical media is fairly easy, as well. If SSD drives ever get cheap enough, this will probably be the best method for long term storage.
     
  12. mBox macrumors 68020

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    #12
    this debate can go on and on.
    Ive seen it happen everywhere on forums from high-end to here.
    Now what kind of long term are we talking here?
    We have footages from an old Avid system as far back as 1998.
    Sitting in a RAID that isnt on all the time.
    So far so good.
    BD and any optical is decent for smaller back-ups.
    Currently were shooting RED footage and that we cant fit on any cheap optical.
    Waiting on the SSD to drop for that.
    Interim we just use more RAIDs :)
     
  13. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #13
    Nonsense. This is a problem, but it has a straightforward albeit expensive remedy. The data is still there. In the worse case, remove the platters from the frozen drive and place them is a drive with working spindles and recover all of your data. Expensive? Yes. However, any file recovery service worth its salt can do it. If your firm has a technician who can do the job, then you have save $1 thousands in recovery fees.

    Again, nonsense. Well maybe a little sense. HDDs suffer two major threats--defective or worn mechanical parts and mechanical damage to the recording surface. Damaged spindles which I have suffered from and not lost a bit, flaking of magnetic recording medium, and a head crash into the platter. Optical media also suffer from two major threats--optical bleaching of the recording medium and aging of the plastic carrier/substrate.

    Commercial CDs, DVDs, and Blu-ray discs have data recorded in geometric pits stamped on an aluminum film. The aluminum film is protected by the familiar plastic carrier/substrate. The aluminum film should last forever. If the disc is handled with care, then its plastic carrier will last about 20 years. After 20 years, the natural aging of the plastic will cause microscopic cracks that may render the disc unreadable.

    Recordable CDs, DVDs, and Blu-ray discs are a different animal altogether. Their data are recorded as phase changes in an optical film. Every microsecond of light exposure bleaches the medium. There is no way to record bleached-out data. I don't know, but I suspect that the medium is also subject to natural aging even in the absence of light. Of course, the plastic carrier/substrate ages as plastic is wont to do. Unlike magnetic media from which data can be recovered after a failure--even a catastrophic failure--there is no reasonable expectation of recovering data after an optical medium failure.

    The takeaway message is that recordable optical media are in a race failure induced by their own physics and chemistry. If you use optical media for backup, then the loser in this race will likely be you.
     
  14. matteusclement thread starter macrumors 65816

    matteusclement

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    #14
    whoa

    whoa, I was talking 3-5 years tops. I'm not archiving for the next apocalypse:D.
     
  15. mBox macrumors 68020

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    Jun 26, 2002
    #15
    Like I said a toucht subject ;)
    Yea everytime someone wants to chime in on these you always get the "long storage" low-down :)
    Heck I have clips and docs since 1994.
    Do I need them? Doubt it, if I havent opened a drive in 5 years its basically re-formatted :)
    Everyone has a different take.
    Im not running an archive facility here ;)
     
  16. MisterMe macrumors G4

    MisterMe

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    #16
    Unless you are very careful, 3-5 years of reliable storage on optical media--particularly DVD and Blu-ray--will seem like the reigns of Egyptian dynasties.
     

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