Blu-ray Xbox 360 Planned By Microsoft

[robanga]

I own all three consoles and the PS3 is definitely quieter, being a better media center is somewhat more debatable in my estimate.

I'm not a fan of the PS3 UI as compared to the blade experience of the 360, and if you have Windows media center PC's and even connect 360 for your macs the overall experience is better.

I use both of those to deliver content, both iTunes and recorded TV from the windows media center. I know i can get connect for both the PS3 and Wii I just have not bothered at this point.

There are a number of things I do like about the PS3 beyond its sound level and BR. Thus far I have purchased just two BR movies and rented another one.

 

[Much Ado]

Rather than just a Blu-ray add-on, if we go with the rumors that there will be an Xbox 360 v.2.0 in, say, 2010, how will that change the dynamic of the industry?

We know the Wii is going to either be upgraded or replaced earlier than usual for a console, that's practically a given. We know Sony want the PS3 to last for 10 years. So a second-gen 360- how will that shake things up?

 

[takao]

Rather than just a Blu-ray add-on, if we go with the rumors that there will be an Xbox 360 v.2.0 in, say, 2010, how will that change the dynamic of the industry?

We know the Wii is going to either be upgraded or replaced earlier than usual for a console, that's practically a given. We know Sony want the PS3 to last for 10 years. So a second-gen 360- how will that shake things up?

by 2010 pretty much all will be already working on their new consoles if they aren't already out in the case of the xbox (in europe the 360 was launched 3,5 years after the original one.. shortest cycle)
PC graphics have the edge yet again and in 2 years it will be again night and day difference like 2 years ago before the 360
sony had luck with the life time of the first two consoles because they were the leader but this time they can't be sitting around so long i expect them them to continue the media machine thing in the future and more computer like behavior (mandatory installs on a console already foreshadow that)

everybody expected a big shake up this time too when microsoft launched early and yet it turns out it wasn't as big of a shake up as nintendo made with a way inferior machine specs wise

for nintnedo i have no idea what they are going to do ... if they keep being nr1 in sales worldwide they can last out the full 5 years perhaps but i suspect it being more of a 4,5 cycle for them and i suspect they keep trying to reduce size and thus will very likely have 360 like graphics in their next generation tops
but apart from specs/controller wise etc. they are simply unpredictable

 

[diamond.g]

Wake me when MS is no longer hemorrhaging money on the XBox, I wouldn't consider over 6 billion lost profitable.

<]=)

Kinda like how Sony is hemorrhaging money on the PS3 right?


Overall it wouldn't be suprising to see MS do a BD drive. What I am most curious about is how they would tackle BD-J. As that is really the biggest difference between the two formats.

 

[Antares]

Well, this certainly is an obvious rumor.

Now all we need is a rumored Blu-ray ad-on for the Wii. Then, the circle will be complete.....

Someone had to say it.

 

[skinnylegs]

If this *does* happen, I hope they offer a discount for those of us who have the HD-DVD unit. LOL

 

[tfast]

Oh I don't doubt they take a while to download. But they are nowhere near 50 gigs is all I'm saying.

Like you said- "The Invasion" was 1.6 gigs. The DVD would have been 9 gigs. The wonders of compression...

A 1080p movie is probably 8 or 9 gigabytes. Not 50.

Compression is great, but the unless done with a lossless compression, the quality can vary substantially depending on who encodes it. Blu-Ray uses compressed media, so to make files smaller for download, they will have to compress them even more. Are you going to want to watch an HD movie that was compressed at 8 Mbits per second or 30 Mbits per second? Online downloads will always take shortcuts to get the movies smaller. The larger the TVs get, the more this is going to make a difference.

 

[MRU]

The larger the TVs get, the more this is going to make a difference.

Your assuming people are 'that' fussy over quality.


If that was the case MP3 would not be as rampant as it is.

Digital Distribution is the future. People will choose convenience and price over quality - they always do.

 

[takao]

Your assuming people are 'that' fussy over quality.


If that was the case MP3 would not be as rampant as it is.

Digital Distribution is the future. People will choose convenience and price over quality - they always do.

jup dvd wasn't successful because of quality .. it was more convenient since rewinding fell away

what people don't get still is that the the kick with downloadable content isn't HD downloadable which is killing bandwidth but DVD quality encoded in h.264 downloads

that is what have dominated the illegal download market for years just like mp3 did before it became mainstream

apple is on the right way with appletv in this regard it's jsut that the entry price of 229/299 is still to steep over the entry price for music downloads( itunes is free)

once the downlaodboxes/streaming clients like apple tv drop below 100-150 bucks it will take off big time

 

[Eraserhead]

To be consistent with the 360s target of being a digital hub, I would guess we will see a stand alone BR drive similar to the HD one, sooner rather than later. This will help MS get the fence sitters that ma decide to try a PS3 because of this feature.

As Agathon pointed out the 360 is too loud for media, its at least as loud as my MacBook when watching iPlayer stuff and that is only because I don't have a TV in my room at Uni, if I was watching HD content, or anything in my living room I'd expect it to be quiet.

And the Xbox is pretty expensive once you buy the addons to achieve the same functionality as the PS3 (I know, I own both consoles). As far as gaming goes, they are about the same right now, but Microsoft's decision not to go with HD game media will hurt them.

That is true, Microsoft really need to reduce the prices on them, $100 for Wireless is too much, and its the only way to get online for most people.

 

[MRU]

jup dvd wasn't successful because of quality .. it was more convenient since rewinding fell away

what people don't get still is that the the kick with downloadable content isn't HD downloadable which is killing bandwidth but DVD quality encoded in h.264 downloads

that is what have dominated the illegal download market for years just like mp3 did before it became mainstream

apple is on the right way with appletv in this regard it's jsut that the entry price of 229/299 is still to steep over the entry price for music downloads( itunes is free)

once the downlaodboxes/streaming clients like apple tv drop below 100-150 bucks it will take off big time

^ agree with you 100%


It will also be a long time before BluRay movies begin to sell as well as DVD considering the extortionate pricing of a lot of the movies.

When films like Pirates of The Carribean: Worlds End, The Simpsons and other new releases retail in stores for €34.99 - 39.99 when the DVD is retailing for €15-20 it is asking a hell of a lot from the consumer.

Yes it can be argued that DVD was similarly more expensive than VHS, however the comparative 'better value for money' was bigger with DVD-VHS than it is over DVD-BluRay

DVD brought with it extra features, instant rewind, perfect pauses, improved quality and dolby digital sound. Nearly all of its extra features could be expereinced by anyone - even those with 14" CRT TV's over video.

BluRay requires expensive players, HD television and only offers improved picture over DVD, at twice the price.

I'm not convinced normal consumers (not us here as we are all tech heads) are that interested and by the time they are I think Digital Distribution infrastructure will have been improved. Compression techniques improved and hopefully in a few years faster BB connections for us all.

 

[diamond.g]

But the real killer isn't going to show yet. Look at all these wonderful games with vast worlds and intricate plots. Now how much of that kind of stuff can you fit on to a normal DVD as opposed to a blu ray disc? Some games are already that big. World of Warcraft is an example (about 15 gigs when I last had it installed). In a couple of years a DVD just won't be enough.

Microsoft has said that games will never be run off of an addon HD disc drive. That is a limitation that will become more evident over the life of the console.

And the Xbox is pretty expensive once you buy the addons to achieve the same functionality as the PS3 (I know, I own both consoles). As far as gaming goes, they are about the same right now, but Microsoft's decision not to go with HD game media will hurt them.

Because getting up to change DVD's is sooooo hard. Switching discs wasn't so far fetched in the PS1 and PS2 days, but now it is so passe or something. I don't buy the MS didn't use HD media so it is gonna die rhetoric. And on the other side of the coin if all you want to do is play games then the xbox is cheaper than the PS3 is (and probably will be).

 

[takao]

BluRay requires expensive players, HD television and only offers improved picture over DVD, at twice the price.

I'm not convinced normal consumers (not us here as we are all tech heads) are that interested and by the time they are I think Digital Distribution infrastructure will have been improved. Compression techniques improved and hopefully in a few years faster BB connections for us all./QUOTE]

you forgot the expensive AV receiver if you plan on listening to surround sound

and god forbid you want to watch actual HD tv broadcasts then you would looking at another 200-400 dollar satellite receiver

this new HD generation is so expensive and complicated that i really hope some great revolutionary products will come around by the time i'm going to buy a new TV (god help me if my old CRT breaks)

 

[mrgreen4242]

A 50 GB 1080p movie? Please. Consider that a dual-layer DVD, once ripped and encoded in MPEG-4 drops down to one or two gigabytes in size.

If a 1080p movie is 50 GB in size, you must be using some horrible encoding. It shouldn't be anywhere near that- it'll probably be a single-digit number.

As someone who is currently/continually encoding tons of DVDs to MPEG4/h264 files for a media center system I can safely say that 1gb/hour is about the lowest you can go for 480p content and have it look decent on a large screen (98" projection in my case). Below that and the detail starts to get too soft.

1080p is FIVE times the resolution of 480p. 4gb per hours is probably as low as you can reasonably go, and that's without sound and is still going to be less than optimal. Realistically, you need at least 5 or 6gb per hour even a bit more, plus sound, to get good results. That's going to put you at 15gb or so for a two hour movie.

Now, personally, I find 1080p to be overkill. 720p is a much better option for digital distribution, imo; it looks fantastic, the equipment needed to decode/display it is more reasonably priced; it's an optimal solution compared to the 1080p bigger numbers are better approach.

Still, 720p is over 2x the resolution of 480p. 2gb/hour 720p h264 looks pretty good, 3gb/hour is really nice. Toss in some good 5.1 and you can fit a 2 hour 720p movie on a DVD9 and people would probably not be able to tell the difference between that and a BD (on a 720p monitor). You'd probably even have room for some (SD) bonus features.

 

[Hankster]

Would Sony really grant MS a Blu-ray license?

I'm not so sure about 2008, but I'd image the XBox 360 v.II that is supposed to roll around in '10 will have an inbuilt BD drive.

They would have to, else it would be against anti-trust laws - I assume. No monopolies allowed! Except for the board game.

 

[mrgreen4242]

They would have to, else it would be against anti-trust laws - I assume. No monopolies allowed! Except for the board game.

That and MS licenses a bunch of video codecs to the BluRay group, and it's not Sony's decision, they're just members of a board that controls the BD format (probably very influential, but not sole controllers).

 

[JackAxe]

Kinda like how Sony is hemorrhaging money on the PS3 right?


Overall it wouldn't be suprising to see MS do a BD drive. What I am most curious about is how they would tackle BD-J. As that is really the biggest difference between the two formats.

Nope. Unlike Sony, MS has yet to turn a profit. Sony has a proven track record, so until the PS3 fails, I'm not expecting them to pull a MS.

MS will probably try to replace Java with their own vomit at runtime, or simply disable it. Or they'll offer MS BR discs that only work on a Vista PC or 360. But the thought of the 360 possibly running Java brings a smile to my face.

The only reason I did not like HD DVD, was HDi. If it had Java, or even Sun's JS -- something besides MS's puke, I wouldn't have cared for the most part. I don't like Sony's formats -- I despise memory sticks, but I'll take Java and more storage now and in the future over something MS had tainted. I bet if HD DVD had succeeded, MS would try to once again shove their inferior WMV 9 down everyone's throats -- thankfully that failed and now this failed.

<]=)

 

[Agathon]

Because getting up to change DVD's is sooooo hard. Switching discs wasn't so far fetched in the PS1 and PS2 days, but now it is so passe or something.

It's a nuisance and limits what you can do with a game.

I don't buy the MS didn't use HD media so it is gonna die rhetoric. And on the other side of the coin if all you want to do is play games then the xbox is cheaper than the PS3 is (and probably will be).

The Xbox 360 is about the same price as the 40GB PS3, or about 50 dollars less, and it is nowhere near as good in hardware terms.

For $50 more, you get wireless connectivity, a much better media centre, Blu Ray, a larger hard drive, and a much more reliable piece of hardware (i.e. one that doesn't have a 30% fail rate).

To get the 360 up to the same spec as the PS3 will end up costing you more than the $50 price difference.

Now that Blu Ray has won, the Xbox 360 is a ripoff, even at $50 cheaper.

 

[MRU]

The Xbox 360 is about the same price as the 40GB PS3, or about 50 dollars less, and it is nowhere near as good in hardware terms.

Yes you are correct. It doesn't have wifi built in, it doesn't have blu ray built in.... very true.

But it does have the better selection of games, and still seems to have the better version of multi-format games.

At the end of the day it's a games console primarily.....

That's not to say the Ps3 has terrible games, it hasn't. Its just there is more choice and better multi format games on the 360 (at THIS time).

 

[zap2]

It's a nuisance and limits what you can do with a game.
.

It doesn't really limit what you can do, maybe a little, but really, splitting the game into two or three parts isn't the end of the world. Maybe in 10 years, 9Gbs would limit devs( when one room is 9Gbs.) But I've seen Mass Effect, BioShock, etc and they look great on DVD9.

The Xbox 360 is about the same price as the 40GB PS3, or about 50 dollars less, and it is nowhere near as good in hardware terms.

I hear that from Sony, but Xbox 360 and PS3 look SO simliar. Currently 360 looks better on mutli platform, but the difference is small. I imagine when/if the PS3 starts to look better, it will be a small amount too. (Oh and why say the prices are about the same, when its really 50 difference, which you stated right after)

For $50 more, you get wireless connectivity, a much better media centre, Blu Ray, a larger hard drive, and a much more reliable piece of hardware (i.e. one that doesn't have a 30% fail rate).

True...minus the media center part. I'll take the Xbox 360 for media(because of XBL market place)

Now that Blu Ray has won, the Xbox 360 is a ripoff, even at $50 cheaper.

I don't think Blue Ray winning makes the 360 a better or worse, its all about the games. I buy hardware to play games....since the 360 has better games then PS3, the Xbox 360 is a better buy.(FOR ME)

Due note I think their all worth buying, and plan to pick up a PS3 one day.

 

[robanga]

The 360s game library is very much better than the PS3. I have had my PS3 a fairly short time compared to my 360 but I have pretty underwhelmed by the games that are exclusive to the console. Also for being a year newer technology the PS3 graphics are in some instances worse than the 360.

The shining star of the 360 is bigger than that though, its the online experience through Live. Its a huge community and if you can get past all the the oddballs on there, you can always find someone playing the game you are playing and if its a popular game there could be hundreds.

The downloadable content on Live is pretty amazing too, the arcade games get better and better and the TV and movies are not bad either. We probably rent 1-2 movies per week and download 1 TV episode.

On the plus side of the PS3 though is that it is definitely quieter, it looks nice in the media cabinet, the gaming experience itself is excellent and you have that software upgradeable BR player. No doubt Sony's online experience will improve as well.

 

[MRU]

Well put it this way... if tomorrow I had to get rid of one of my consoles based on GAMES.

It would not be the PS3
It would not be the 360
It would not be the DS
It would not be the PSP

But the Wii....... other than 4 games, has done nothing but disappoint me.


Even looking forward to releases on all the consoles... I can only think of 3 games on the wii I am interested in, compared to many on the ps3 & 360

But it's all subjective. There is no right or wrong.

 

[robanga]

My Wii would be a close second to my 360. The kids games, the "exercise" experience of playing a lot of the games, and finally the ability to download all those classic nintendo games that I played on my NES and N64

With Orb you can even change the Wii into a kind of media center.

 

[mrgreen4242]

It doesn't really limit what you can do, maybe a little, but really, splitting the game into two or three parts isn't the end of the world. Maybe in 10 years, 9Gbs would limit devs( when one room is 9Gbs.) But I've seen Mass Effect, BioShock, etc and they look great on DVD9.

I was actually just saying this week that I WISH developers would start releasing games as multi-part series. Take a game that would be 40 hours and $60 and sell it to me in four 10 hour chapters for $15 plus a $10-15 multiplayer disc. Ya, it would cost more for the consumer but you could quit after one or two if you didn't like it, saving some money. Write the game, the engine, design the art, etc all at once and release them 4 or 6 months apart, LoTR style.

I'm tired of these 40+ hour games. I don't have time to finish them anymore (I'm an old fart with a job and family now) and I tend to forget whats going on because my gaming sessions can be far apart.

I hear that from Sony, but Xbox 360 and PS3 look SO simliar. Currently 360 looks better on mutli platform, but the difference is small. I imagine when/if the PS3 starts to look better, it will be a small amount too. (Oh and why say the prices are about the same, when its really 50 difference, which you stated right after)

True...minus the media center part. I'll take the Xbox 360 for media(because of XBL market place)

I don't think Blue Ray winning makes the 360 a better or worse, its all about the games. I buy hardware to play games....since the 360 has better games then PS3, the Xbox 360 is a better buy.(FOR ME)

Due note I think their all worth buying, and plan to pick up a PS3 one day.

The PS3 is just now starting to catch up graphically, as far as I can tell, but as many noted the games aren't looking very appealing at the moment (though I would like to check out the God of War series, but since they yanked the backward compatibility from the PS3 unless you want to shell out like $500 it's not going to happen - after all the complaining about how MS handled BC I think it really was the way to go).

I'll still end up with a PS3 after they drop the price again and I find a good price on a used one, mainly for a BR player since they're all $300 anyways, but I'm sure I'll play games on it.

 

[zap2]

Well put it this way... if tomorrow I had to get rid of one of my consoles based on GAMES.

I'd have to say PSP(for me!)


I like it, Loco Roco is the game of a life time, but it lacks a ton of great game(considering how long its been out)

Still lots of fun though