What benefit does a 4.0 headset have over a 2.1 headset?They are coming out with a BT 4.0 headset in Jan 2013
What benefit does a 4.0 headset have over a 2.1 headset?They are coming out with a BT 4.0 headset in Jan 2013
The main reason why Bluetooth audio will never suit for audiophiles is the continous re-encoding.
When you listen to wired headphones on your iPhone, you listen to music, that was encoded once by the music label or Apple itself in one of their data centers. iPhone decodes it and plays it out to the headphone jack. If the music comes from CD, the general mastering for 44.100 Hz occours in the studio. The next quality-decreasing step is iTunes encoding it at maybe 256 kbit/s AAC. iPhone plays it as above. You see: one encoding, one decoding. Everything fine.
When you decide to buy awesome bluetooth A2DP-headphones, here comes what iPhones does with the audio: instead of taking the AAC or MP3-file and sending its still encoded bitstream to the headphones for decoding, it decodes the file as descibed above and re-encodes it with the crappy sbc-codec. This is the only codec required to call a device "A2DP-ready". So even if the headphones and coming iPhones would support Apt-X, it'd still be en-de-en-de-coding of music.
Btw there are plenty of low price phones, which support direct transmission...
What benefit does a 4.0 headset have over a 2.1 headset?
iOS does support sending AAC as an optional codec over A2DP, although I have yet to see anything else support AAC as an optional codec, just Apt-X.
Ultimate ears 9000. They are sold at apple stores. Work great
I have a pair of MM 550-X and am very happy with their performance.
http://www.sennheiserusa.com/mm550x
No experience with the dongle. These cans did not come with one and I dislike carrying around extra stuff in my man purse.
There is a short lag but that is to be expected. I live with it because I rarely use them for gaming.
The main reason why Bluetooth audio will never suit for audiophiles is the continous re-encoding.
When you listen to wired headphones on your iPhone, you listen to music, that was encoded once by the music label or Apple itself in one of their data centers. iPhone decodes it and plays it out to the headphone jack. If the music comes from CD, the general mastering for 44.100 Hz occours in the studio. The next quality-decreasing step is iTunes encoding it at maybe 256 kbit/s AAC. iPhone plays it as above. You see: one encoding, one decoding. Everything fine.
When you decide to buy awesome bluetooth A2DP-headphones, here comes what iPhones does with the audio: instead of taking the AAC or MP3-file and sending its still encoded bitstream to the headphones for decoding, it decodes the file as descibed above and re-encodes it with the crappy sbc-codec. This is the only codec required to call a device "A2DP-ready". So even if the headphones and coming iPhones would support Apt-X, it'd still be en-de-en-de-coding of music.
Btw there are plenty of low price phones, which support direct transmission...
How do you know?iOS does support sending AAC as an optional codec over A2DP, although I have yet to see anything else support AAC as an optional codec, just Apt-X.
How do you know?
E.g. my little Ericsson MW600 I use at work doesn't really have any clear specs. These have some fuzz, I suspect it has cheap audio output components.
The Pioneer 8400BH headunit I have in my old truck, supports BT3.0 and AAC specifically. Does iOS auto detect and send it AAC? This thing pulling bluetooth audio comes through loud and crystal clear with no sign of crushing lows or highs.
I suspect it's as usual with Apple... it just works and we don't know details.
Informative!A mix of things:
1) The BT specs themselves for A2DP specify that the only mandatory codec is SBC. MP3, AAC and ATRAC are also specified in A2DP, but are optional. Apt-X is not in the A2DP spec at all (but A2DP supports custom codecs).
2) Apple's developer docs for iOS 6 actually explicitly state which codecs iOS supports. There's a section of the docs outlining all the bluetooth bits and pieces they support, and what sub-features of those various profiles.
3) Having bluetooth debugging on my phone where I can see the handshakes happening (I captured logs for Apple on a BT bug a while back, and the BT debugging is still useful, so I left it installed).
The whole thing is actually baked into A2DP. Each device can be a source or sink. During the BT handshake the source queries what codecs the sink supports. The source then can select the codec it wants out of that selection to encode media sent. The stream headers include information on the codec, and the sink can just read the headers to know which decoder to use on the stream. But considering iOS only supports SBC and AAC, and anything is better than SBC, it's very likely to pick AAC whenever available.
The 8400BH is a pretty new unit, and wasn't something I was aware of at the time I wrote my original post (back in November). I'm not seeing anything on it that says it supports AAC over bluetooth though. Not many manufacturers say what they support. An example is that my Sony head unit (XAV-601BT) can play back AAC on a USB stick, but it only accepts MP3/SBC over bluetooth.
Without Pioneer saying "Yes, we support AAC over bluetooth" or having BT diagnostic logs that show the head unit reporting AAC support, it's hard to say. A lot of the issues with crushed highs over SBC tends to be with devices selecting the wrong bitrate. iOS had that issue early on, and somewhere along the line switched to always sending the maximum SBC bitrate allowed by the device.
Can you further clarify on examining logs.A mix of things:
1) The BT specs themselves for A2DP specify that the only mandatory codec is SBC. MP3, AAC and ATRAC are also specified in A2DP, but are optional. Apt-X is not in the A2DP spec at all (but A2DP supports custom codecs).
2) Apple's developer docs for iOS 6 actually explicitly state which codecs iOS supports. There's a section of the docs outlining all the bluetooth bits and pieces they support, and what sub-features of those various profiles.
3) Having bluetooth debugging on my phone where I can see the handshakes happening (I captured logs for Apple on a BT bug a while back, and the BT debugging is still useful, so I left it installed).
The whole thing is actually baked into A2DP. Each device can be a source or sink. During the BT handshake the source queries what codecs the sink supports. The source then can select the codec it wants out of that selection to encode media sent. The stream headers include information on the codec, and the sink can just read the headers to know which decoder to use on the stream. But considering iOS only supports SBC and AAC, and anything is better than SBC, it's very likely to pick AAC whenever available.
The 8400BH is a pretty new unit, and wasn't something I was aware of at the time I wrote my original post (back in November). I'm not seeing anything on it that says it supports AAC over bluetooth though. Not many manufacturers say what they support. An example is that my Sony head unit (XAV-601BT) can play back AAC on a USB stick, but it only accepts MP3/SBC over bluetooth.
Without Pioneer saying "Yes, we support AAC over bluetooth" or having BT diagnostic logs that show the head unit reporting AAC support, it's hard to say. A lot of the issues with crushed highs over SBC tends to be with devices selecting the wrong bitrate. iOS had that issue early on, and somewhere along the line switched to always sending the maximum SBC bitrate allowed by the device.
etc. But doesn't seem useful.Apr 15 11:03:08 Adams-iPhone SpringBoard[67] <Warning>: BTM: attempting to connect to service 0x00000010 on device "MW600" 5C:B5:24:61:17:A9
Apr 15 11:03:08 Adams-iPhone wifid[14] <Error>: WiFi:[387730988.683056]: WiFi unquiescing requested by "locationd"
Apr 15 11:03:08 Adams-iPhone SpringBoard[67] <Warning>: BTM: connection to service 0x00000010 on device "MW600" 5C:B5:24:61:17:A9 succeeded
Apr 15 11:03:08 Adams-iPhone SpringBoard[67] <Warning>: BTM: attempting to connect to service 0x00000008 on device "MW600" 5C:B5:24:61:17:A9
Apr 15 11:03:08 Adams-iPhone wifid[14] <Error>: WiFi:[387730988.716296]: WiFi unquiescing requested by "locationd"
Apr 15 11:03:08 Adams-iPhone SpringBoard[67] <Warning>: BTM: connection to service 0x00000008 on device "MW600" 5C:B5:24:61:17:A9 succeeded
Apr 15 11:03:08 Adams-iPhone mediaserverd[38] <Warning>: 11:03:08.789 <AudioControl> audio device's sample rate is 0; forcing to 44100
Bluetooth Audio Feature
Audio Codec : SBC/MP3
Can you further clarify on examining logs.
I have AppleiPhoneConfigurator and can capture the likes of:
etc. But doesn't seem useful.
I have the profile for Bluetooth Debugging from here, but I can't determine how to access the logs
http://www.cultofmac.com/152120/how-to-enable-hidden-debug-settings-on-the-iphone-ios-tips/
I still assume my Sony MW600 uses basic SBC.
My Pioneer Receiver uses direct MP3/AAC, as the quality is very good. Still be nice to confirm.
Sony lists codecs specifically. http://store.sony.com/webapp/wcs/st...&productId=8198552921666372151#specifications
I assume what would happen, is Sony+iPhone authenticate, see MP3 compatibility. And iPhone transcodes on the fly from AAC to MP3. Does not seem as power efficient as not reprocessing lossy->lossy.
I have red.That link tells you how to access them. You might want to read the whole article. And if you do grab a log, I'd be curious to see a log for the Pioneer HU. The diagnostic logs tend to spew lots of technical data that you need the spec to sort out.
Shameless product plug here - Actually, the Harman Kardon BT headset supports both AptX and AAC, so the iPad and Mac experience is pretty consistent - That, and the BTs retail for only US$250, compared to most of the competition ringing in around $400.
Can anyone say if MM450-X support AAC or do they use SBC?
Indeed, the 450-x connect with SBC over A2DP where Apt-x isn't an option such as with iOS. Does anyone know if iOS 8 beta supports Apt-x in any form?
Indeed, the 450-x connect with SBC over A2DP where Apt-x isn't an option such as with iOS. Does anyone know if iOS 8 beta supports Apt-x in any form?
From what I've read (mostly techie forums) nobody seems to think iOS8 will support apt-x, HOWEVER, THIS THING is AWESOME. I use it with a lightening to 30pin adapter (this device is tiny and hardly adds any size to the lightening adapter) and it works perfectly. I'd been using a Jaybird apt-x dongle out of the crappy iPhone 5 headphone jack and it worked ok, but going out of the 30pin with the Kokkia, the sound is SO much better using my Sennheiser MM500-x (or even to my Beats Wireless). It is a noticeable difference. You can tell it is transmitting apt-x when the device's blue LED blinks twice instead of once (SBC) although I can tell even without seeing the LED, it is THAT obvious.
Excellent little piece of kit while we wait for Apple to bring apt-x to iOS. (amazon has it for a pretty good price and free two day shipping if you are a Prime member)...Highly recommended for those with apt-x devices (works nicely with my FoxL v.2 Platinum bluetooth speaker as well).
That's exactly what I could do with except that I've got a nine pin ipad.
doesn't the lightening adapter work with your iPad? The Kokkia plugs directly into the lightening adapter.
That adapter is 30 pin and my ipad is 9 pin so they're incompatible. Furthermore the 30 to 9 pin adapters seem to be incapable of transmitting audio on the ipad (so a 30 to 9 to apt-x isn't possible & would be too much even if it did work). There seen to be no 9 pin to apt x adapters. Apple's 9 to 30 adapter seems to transmit audio but a) it's expensive and b) too many adapters.
Wait, what? The adapter is 30pin to 9pin, right? It works perfectly on my iPad air.
I can understand if you don't like the adapters (like I said, the Kokkia apt-x adapter is about a 3rd the size of the Lightening to 30pin adapter and adds very little in terns of size to this setup) or don't want to pay the price, but the fact that you have a "9 pin iPad" has nothing to do with whether this solution actually will work to produce quality apt-x sound from your iPad. It works with a "9 pin iPad".
Wait, what? The adapter is 30pin to 9pin, right? It works perfectly on my iPad air.
I can understand if you don't like the adapters (like I said, the Kokkia apt-x adapter is about a 3rd the size of the Lightening to 30pin adapter and adds very little in terns of size to this setup) or don't want to pay the price, but the fact that you have a "9 pin iPad" has nothing to do with whether this solution actually will work to produce quality apt-x sound from your iPad. It works with a "9 pin iPad".