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AhmedFaisal said:
So what? Your Ex-President and President by last name are doing billion dollar business with a regime that executes people and violates basic human rights on a daily basis, where is the difference?
So he is also an antisemitic and anti-american nutcase, so what, give him a lifetime prescription of PROZAC and leave him be, no one gives a **** about him anymore anyways. And besides, he was nuts from the very beginning, just back then he was useful. Bush and his cronies should wipe the pee out of their eyes and go hunt real terrorists for a change instead of going after fruitbasket ex-dictators and chess-players.
'nuff said!
Ahmed

No one can doubt that Robert James Fischer "aka" Bobby has degenerated into a true nut case. I will make no defense of his actions, but his history has led to some of his paranoia and distrust of his Native America.
The guy was constantly followed by the FBI. His mother was investigated by both the FBI and CIA as a spy.
He was personally contacted by Kissinger to play the match against Spasski because it was important to U.S interests during the Cold War.
Then the same country refused to allow him to play in the return match against Spasski 20 years later because of politics. Wouldn't you be pissed?

As I said I make no excuse for him but in some ways I can understand why he hates the U.S.
 
~loserman~ said:
As I said I make no excuse for him but in some ways I can understand why he hates the U.S.

No matter which country a person lives in, there are always going to be things that people deplore. If one is fortunate enough to live in a democracy, then one should either change them, or go and live elsewhere.

Unfortunately there are people like Fischer who will always be whiners, no matter what, because nothing will ever be perfect enough to please them, but they will never invest the time and effort required to try and change things.

Fortunately there are people like Garry Kasparov who don't whine, but instead "puts his money where his mouth is".

http://www.chessbase.com/newsdetail.asp?newsid=2265

Edit: Right from my earliest exposure to chess back in the early 1970's, the one thing that always stood out in my mind about Fischer - besides what an incredible player he was - is what an unbelievable whiner and cry baby he was. Maybe it was just part of his strategy to mentally wear down his opponents, or maybe it was just his personality, either way, this guy obviously never grew up.
 
absolut_mac said:
Edit: Right from my earliest exposure to chess back in the early 1970's, the one thing that always stood out in my mind about Fischer - besides what an incredible player he was - is what an unbelievable whiner and cry baby he was. Maybe it was just part of his strategy to mentally wear down his opponents, or maybe it was just his personality, either way, this guy obviously never grew up.

Actually his whining was merited.
During his career he made accusations that the Soviet chess machine was colluding to keep Westerners from winning. He contended that in key tournaments they would play ea other to prearranged draws while saving innovations for Western players. This later was admitted to by many ex Soviet Players. It was also admitted that the Soviet Chess machine had a special hard on for keeping Fischer from qualifying for the candidates matches.
He never needed to mentally wear his opponents down his chess ability and genius spoke for itself. He was so far above the ability of ALL other players by 1970 that he was basically in a league all by himself.
Probably the Greatest complement ever offered about Fischer was from one of the most original attacking players of all time former World Champion
Mikail Tal. When asked about his lifetime plus score over Fischer Tal replied " When Tal beat Fischer Tal was Tal, but Fischer was not yet Fischer"

No one with the exception of Paul Morphy had ever routed the leading players of their day as Fischer had. His streak of wins culminating with the win of the World Championship in 1972 has never been equaled.
No one in history ever demolished a sitting world champion the way Fischer did Spasski. His winning margin is even more astonishing when one considers he didn't even show up for one of the games and just took a forfeit. The final score of the match was 12.5-8.5 Spasski conceded defeat because even if he was to win the remaining 3 games of the match he would still lose. Think about it Fischer was winning by 4 games, 5 games if the forfeit is removed. Normally World championships are won by a margin of 1 or 2 games. 4 games are completely unheard of especially in 24 game matches and theirs ended at game 21.
Fischers career was marked by many never before or never since accomplished feats. He won the U.S championship in 1963/64 by a perfect score. No one else in history has come close to winning by a perfect score. He won it all 8 times he entered.

Starting in the interzonal and going thru the candidates matches that gave him the right to play Spasski he won an incredible 20 wins in a row before losing a game to Petrosian(who he ended up defeating 6.5-2.5 which by the way was the worst defeat of Petrosian's entire career) These were not patzers he was playing two were former world champions.

He refused to play Karpov in 1975 which led to him having the Title stripped from him by F.I.D.E. and awarded to Karpov.
Fischer's refusal to play was based on wanting the Match rules changed so that draws were not counted and If the Challenger reached a 10 point win tie with the champion the match would be considered a draw with the champion retaining his crown. The Soviet controlled F.I.D.E. would not allow these changes while a Westerner controlled the Title because the Soviet School of play was based on draw if your playing black and try to win if your white. Karpov was a master student of this school and would have been at a serious disadvantage because his repertoire as black was a drawing repertoire. It's funny that as soon as the Soviets won back the title(by forfeit) they changed the rules to almost exactly the way Fischer wanted them for the next 3 World championship matches.

I still consider him as probably the strongest player to have ever played the game. His disdain for draws and his preference for fighting chess make him stand out from all the rest. Especially when one considers the lack of fighting spirit exibited by todays players.

Yes he became a recluse and a nut case, but that never detracts from the beauty and genius of his games. I never tire of playing over many of his masterpieces. Are van Gogh's works of art diminished by him being a nut?
No.
Nor are Fischer's.
 
He wasn't just arrested for playing a game of chess. Didn't he walk away with a $3M prize for winning?

If the U.S. imposed sanctions on an evil dictatorship and a U.S. company illegally and covertly did business with that dictatorship, making millions of dollars profit in doing so, I'd imagine people would be outraged. There would be rightful outcry against a U.S. company that profited financially while benefiting a dictatorship that had perpetrated numerous crimes against its people.

There's little difference here. I doubt he'd be in much trouble if he had simply played a game of chess there and no financial gain or publicity were involved.
 
~loserman~ said:
Actually his whining was merited.

You have put forward many good points, none of which I disagree with, but it still doesn't change the bottom line and that is that Bobby Fischers always was a whiner and will always be one.

The table's too high, the chairs too hard, the air conditioning is too hot, too cold, the lights are too bright, too dim etc etc.

Yes, Fischer certainly had legitimate complaints against the corrupt Soviet chess machine, but let's face facts, he always whined and complained about everyone and everything. Nobody and no thing was exempt from his pathetic whining.

Of course that doesn't detract from the brilliance of his games, but as I said earlier, unfortunately for him, he just never grew up. Really sad.
 
Moof1904 said:
If the U.S. imposed sanctions on an evil dictatorship and a U.S. company illegally and covertly did business with that dictatorship, making millions of dollars profit in doing so, I'd imagine people would be outraged. There would be rightful outcry against a U.S. company that profited financially while benefiting a dictatorship that had perpetrated numerous crimes against its people.
LOL This is the funniest post of the day! :D
 
w00master said:
Unfortunately, Bobby Fischer (perhaps in his craziness???) is known to be anti-semetic. Also, he's been well known for statements applauding the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Perhaps it is his mental health issues, but it's really tough to defend the chess legend with those issues under his belt now.

What issues? In the US, you can be a KKK member and its still okay with the government, so I don't think that racism is enough to judge him, especially not in the US of A.


Moof1904 said:
If the U.S. imposed sanctions on an evil dictatorship and a U.S. company illegally and covertly did business with that dictatorship, making millions of dollars profit in doing so, I'd imagine people would be outraged. There would be rightful outcry against a U.S. company that profited financially while benefiting a dictatorship that had perpetrated numerous crimes against its people.

The US does it every day. :p
 
You know, I'm starting to think the mods here are letting their own political views influence who they censor and who they don't. It's okay to bash the U.S., but not other countries? Maybe we need more mods from the U.S., where we actually value diversity and freedom of speech. :rolleyes:
 
jamdr said:
You know, I'm starting to think the mods here are letting their own political views influence who they censor and who they don't. It's okay to bash the U.S., but not other countries? Maybe we need more mods from the U.S., where we actually value diversity and freedom of speech. :rolleyes:
The purpose of moderation is not to censor points of view, but to enforce the forum rules, which do not allow posts deemed to be insults directed at another member (rather than opinions about the topic of the thread). If censorship is a concern of yours, the MacRumors Site and Forum Feedback forum would be an appropriate place to post about it.
 
As far as I know the actual charges he was arrested on was trying to leave Japan with a passport that was no longer valid. The problem here is that it had been revoked by U.S. authorities without telling fischer!
What is strange to me in this story is that a nutcase like Fischer can still have such great symbolic value that U.S. authorities are willing to move about in such legal greyzones just to get their hands on him.

Anyways, as reported by the bbc, right now he is on a plane on his way to good old wonderfull Copenhagen from where he will travel on to Iceland.

A
 
yeah, compared to many things that our own government officials have done over the past 20 years, ignoring an embargo for a couple of million dollars is not really a big deal. Hell, if he were an elected official, we'd probably be thankful that it wasn't BILLIONS of dollars, or the whole GNP of some third-world country or something...

Lunatic or not, I feel sorry for the guy...
 
On TV I saw him interviewed at the airport. The way he looked reminded me of Ted Kaczynski (the Una bomber) but at least Fischer only used verbal bombs, directed at government officials.
 
Doctor Q said:
On TV I saw him interviewed at the airport. The way he looked reminded me of Ted Kaczynski (the Una bomber) but at least Fischer only used verbal bombs, directed at government officials.

Yup - he certainly look like the archetypical crazy guy... What's up with these chess-geniuses. Heard about someone at a tournament demanding the varnish removed from all the chess pieces claiming it was telepathic varnish. Not sure if it was the same person who also wore a home made anti-mind reading helmet while playing!

A
 
I can't think of a better place to be in custody than Iceland. Genius can do weird things to a persons psyche. There personal appearance becomes a very secondary and sometimes annoying area of life. Essentially they don't have common sense.
 
So sad a legendary chess champion has to have his image tarnished by the government and his own inept actions.
 
Well, I didnt't know much about Bobby Fisher until like 2 hours ago, but I still went to see him at the airport here in Iceland. It was pretty pathetic, there were about thirty people waiting for him and the local news stations described it as the even of the century or something. But at least I got to be on TV :)

He looked a lot like Saddam Hussein, by the way. And I think Icleand would be better off without him - the government is even paying him to be a "teacher" at the university of Reykjavik.
 
I was reading through notes on one of the games from the Yugoslavian Fischer vs. Spassky match in Chessmaster 9000 (Mac of course), and the interesting thing was that this was the first time a computer was successfully used to analyze international grandmaster games.

I believe it was IBM's Deep Thought that kibitzed while the match was in progress that Spassky had made some tactical errors and missed several opportunities to win the game.

*****

and I see discussion is staying away from the entire minefield of the former Yugoslavia and the US's policy for or against different segments of it (Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo, etc.) (going back to WWII) that was sort of the backdrop to the entire Bobby Fischer story.


DoctorQ: You've just got to be more careful with those devastating pun advancements. All those passed puns, you had me punned, and I couldn't move. I have to look up a proper defense in Lasker just in case i run into one of your Posts again.

Loserman: thank you for your history, very fascinating. I'd love to hear your opinion on chess programs some day too, PM me if you're game.
 
w00master said:
Unfortunately, Bobby Fischer (perhaps in his craziness???) is known to be anti-semetic. Also, he's been well known for statements applauding the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Perhaps it is his mental health issues, but it's really tough to defend the chess legend with those issues under his belt now.

w00master

Whatever his personal views, the point is that he's being hunted for playing a game of chess 15 years ago. I don't have to support or defend his beliefs to think that he should not be arrested for playing chess.
 
w00master said:
Unfortunately, Bobby Fischer (perhaps in his craziness???) is known to be anti-semetic. Also, he's been well known for statements applauding the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

Perhaps it is his mental health issues, but it's really tough to defend the chess legend with those issues under his belt now.

w00master

He is not only anti-semitic... he is also jewish (or at least both his parents was) ... all in all - his political views probably shouldn't be taken too seriously. The Icelandic parliament certainly doesn't, or I'm sure they wouldn't have let him in to the country.

A
 
Santaduck said:
and I see discussion is staying away from the entire minefield of the former Yugoslavia and the US's policy for or against different segments of it (Croatia, Serbia, Bosnia, Kosovo, etc.) (going back to WWII) that was sort of the backdrop to the entire Bobby Fischer story.

I think that it is implied by the feelings that Fischer was made a pawn of (not a pun - tried to think of a better word) for world politics by the US government by some posters here.

In some ways like the efforts in the last 5 years to make criminals of those that visited Cuba.
 
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