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BONDS ADMITS STEROID USE!

Not that I'm up on baseball but the second article is explosive! There is going to be a big fallout from this I imagine. Makes you wonder how many sports are tainted worldwide.
 
The second article sounds like something out of the Salem Witch hunt. The first only admits that he used it unknowingly. I believe him.

It's too bad that this is the way things are going. This kind of use will destroy professional sports.

-Hasta
 
It is disappointing and frustrating - kids grow up idolizing these athletes, especially ones like Bonds. And now to find out they've been cheating is truly disheartening. It's hard to believe he truly didn't know what he was taking. Hmmm, something I eat or rub on that makes me perform better that no one is supposed to know about? I thought it was just Aspercreme!

And banning/suspension is one thing - what about all of the records? Do they get wiped, or asterisked, or what? It's like with NCAA sanctions - records, championships, etc., are all wiped.
 
it was kinda obvious if you take a good look at bonds. his arms are the size of my legs and i'm a big guy (6'2, 230lbs, and work out 4xs a week). i'd say that most of the athletes in professional sports are using steroids in order to stay competitive. considering the large salaries that professional athletes make, its no wonder that these guys will do just about anything (including taking steroids) to stay on top of their game.
 
palusami said:
it was kinda obvious if you take a good look at bonds.
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Agreed. How else does a person gain at least three hat sizes over a span of 5 years or so?
 
But seriously, if we KNOW that Bonds has been on steroids (which most of us suspected anyway), how do you compare him with the greats of yesteryear? Guys like the Bambino didn't have the best lifestyles but their performance is all the more amazing because of it. Of course they didn't have the temptation of steroids then, but look what they did without them.

Sure, Bonds will break records - in an era where we know a lot more about pushing the body, and with a little chemical help. Humph. Some record.

US pro sports should look internationally here - pro cyclists get banned for this sort of thing.

Of course their's one little, tiny thing in the way of enforcing no-doping: The Player's Unions. $olidarity, Brother!
 
It continually boggles the mind that everyone thinks Bonds suddenly gained 30 pounds of muscle between 2000 and 2001. It's simply not so. I've been a Giants fan for 25 years, and I first noticed a significant change in Bonds' physique in, oh, 1998.

That article by Conte is very illuminating, but again, like most of the other evidence so far, doesn't link Bonds into *knowingly* acquiring and using any steroid. Since Bonds had struck a limited immunity deal before testifying, the worst charge he could face would be purjury for lying to the grand jury. So for now, I'm more inclined to believe his testimony.

I think Anderson abused Bonds' trust in him to sell illegal substances to other people. And the real shame in it is that those illegal substances didn't add a thing to what Bonds was doing on the field. He's the greatest hitter in the history of the game, with or without any chemical help.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
But seriously, if we KNOW that Bonds has been on steroids (which most of us suspected anyway), how do you compare him with the greats of yesteryear? Guys like the Bambino didn't have the best lifestyles but their performance is all the more amazing because of it. Of course they didn't have the temptation of steroids then, but look what they did without them.

Sure, Bonds will break records - in an era where we know a lot more about pushing the body, and with a little chemical help. Humph. Some record.

US pro sports should look internationally here - pro cyclists get banned for this sort of thing.

Of course their's one little, tiny thing in the way of enforcing no-doping: The Player's Unions. $olidarity, Brother!
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with all due respect to players of the yesteryears, it's not fair to emphasize points only in their favor. for example, babe ruth never had to face excellent pitchers/players who were non-caucasian, nevermind non-american. ruth never had to face highly specialized relievers. etc. etc.

while it's unfortunate that these serious bleaches have come to light, i think records should be left alone. i think this is beyond records - i really hope MLB will clean this up because it really tarnishes the image and the ethics of the game of baseball. and i'd like to state that while players union is largely responsible, it's not the fault of most of the players. players union have become increasingly representative of handful of superstar-players. i believe most players favor stricter drug testing and punishment... but some highly visible ones and don fehr opposed such things under the pretence of "protecting" all the players interests.

i hope this gets sorted out and players come clean. or as clean as realistically possible... it's been a sad week for my favorite sport... :(
 
jxyama said:
with all due respect to players of the yesteryears, it's not fair to emphasize points only in their favor. for example, babe ruth never had to face excellent pitchers/players who were non-caucasian, nevermind non-american. ruth never had to face highly specialized relievers. etc. etc.(
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Very true, and I don't want to wax overly nostalgic. But I will argue that the ethnic diversity of the league is less an issue than the increased level of science present in athletics. My point is that steroids will (theoretically) allow an athlete to perform better than he possibly could without them, meaning that today's athletes can exceed natural limits that athletes in previous generations had no way of overcoming, all other things being equal. In sports, that's generally called cheating.

And yeah, I place a lot of the blame on the players' union. It is a self-interested organization that often forgets what the de facto purpose of pro sports is - to provide entertainment and roll models to the public.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
Very true, and I don't want to wax overly nostalgic. But I will argue that the ethnic diversity of the league is less an issue than the increased level of science present in athletics. My point is that steroids will (theoretically) allow an athlete to perform better than he possibly could without them, meaning that today's athletes can exceed natural limits that athletes in previous generations had no way of overcoming, all other things being equal. In sports, that's generally called cheating.
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not sure. though we'll never know if bonds would have beaten ruth's records without steroids, i think the nostalgic sentiment gets too strong at times. to think that a player (babe ruth) from the 1920s with frequent smoking and drinking and partying lifestyle, nevermind not being known for great physical shape, defines the "natural limit" is a bit off.

ruth was a great player in his day. he was more dominant than any other player for any other era. but his record doesn't define any kind of a limit. i'd be willing to bet that ruth would have a difficult time hitting randy johnson now. and i'm fairly certain cy young and walter johnson wouldn't be as good playing today - not because they weren't great players (they were), not because today's players are all juiced, but because today's players are more athletic.

my point is, just because someone breaks ruth's (or any of significant and long standing records) doesn't mean he cheated and that it's all due to steroids.
 
jxyama said:
my point is, just because someone breaks ruth's (or any of significant and long standing records) doesn't mean he cheated and that it's all due to steroids.
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But it does mean that he will be under scrutiny as to whether he did cheat.

Ruth doesn't define the natural limit of today's players (like I said previously, all other things being equal), but at the same time I don't think that Bonds does either. I think he has exceeded them.
 
Lord Blackadder said:
But it does mean that he will be under scrutiny as to whether he did cheat.
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very true.

as a fairly liberal baseball fan, i get a bit annoyed by traditionalist sentiments at times, when it comes to "old and cherished" records. traditionalists get way too protective of them at times, imo.

for example, i still cannot believe some people suggested keeping dual records for hits in a season when ichiro broke it. (hello!! can you say roger maris?) as far as i'm concerned, the record is for hits in a season. it's not hits in XX number of games. ichiro had 262 hits in a season. sisler had 257. end of story.
 
We all knew Bonds was on something, and Giambi too. I think what they have done is horrible, and has put a dark cloud over the game. what are we going to say when the Bonds is Chasing one of the most prolific title in sports, that of the HR king.

As a fan of the game in general, I think Bonds and Giambi, along with anyone else on the juice should be thrown out. Its cheating plain and simple. If you can throw out the all time hits leader (as he should be thrown out) You can throw out Bonds & Giambi, Canseco and the rest of the Lousy Bums.

What a disgrace.
 
Koodauw said:
We all knew Bonds was on something, and Giambi too. I think what they have done is horrible, and has put a dark cloud over the game. what are we going to say when the Bonds is Chasing one of the most prolific title in sports, that of the HR king.

As a fan of the game in general, I think Bonds and Giambi, along with anyone else on the juice should be thrown out. Its cheating plain and simple. If you can throw out the all time hits leader (as he should be thrown out) You can throw out Bonds & Giambi, Canseco and the rest of the Lousy Bums.

What a disgrace.
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it's a disgrace, but i would not lump pete rose with giambi/bonds. betting on baseball has long been explicitly forbidden and cheats the entire sport, as opposed to an individual. tarnishing a record is one thing. tarnishing the entire integrity of the sport as a competition is quite another.

in any case, i hope there's a good resolution of this. i completely agree. it's a disgrace.
 
jxyama said:
it's a disgrace, but i would not lump pete rose with giambi/bonds. betting on baseball has long been explicitly forbidden and cheats the entire sport, as opposed to an individual. tarnishing a record is one thing. tarnishing the entire integrity of the sport as a competition is quite another.

in any case, i hope there's a good resolution of this. i completely agree. it's a disgrace.
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You have a good point On the Rose issue.

It going to be a tough to impose any penalties or have any good come from this. And we all know that Bud will not want to punish arguably the biggest star in the game. And Giambi's flat out lying. Horrible
 
Koodauw said:
You have a good point On the Rose issue.

It going to be a tough to impose any penalties or have any good come from this. And we all know that Bud will not want to punish arguably the biggest star in the game. And Giambi's flat out lying. Horrible
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what sucks is that as far as "lasting legacy" is concerned, bonds is much more significant than pete rose. rose has the hits record... but by the time bonds retires, he'll have records for all-time and season HR, MVP, all-time abd season regular and intentional walks, on-base %, slugging %, on and on...

i personally consider betting to be a worse offense than taking steroids - just because baseball is still very much a skill based sport (i can take all the steroids i want, i still can't even see a 90 mph fastball, let alone hit it). makes me sad... :(
 
Exactly. Bonds will go down as one of the great baseball players due to his huge numbers and records. But is he a legend, or a very good player who sold himself and the sport because he needed to be sure of a spot in the record books?
 
jxyama said:
it's a disgrace, but i would not lump pete rose with giambi/bonds. betting on baseball has long been explicitly forbidden and cheats the entire sport, as opposed to an individual. tarnishing a record is one thing. tarnishing the entire integrity of the sport as a competition is quite another.

in any case, i hope there's a good resolution of this. i completely agree. it's a disgrace.
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he did much more than tarnish a record; steroids helped him gain an unfair advantage over other baseball players that are not using steroids. were talking about how many games that may have benefited from his enhanced ability. he let his teammates down big time not to mention countless fans that supported him.

btw, i don't buy the "flaxseed oil and a rubbing balm for arthritis" excuse. come on barry, flaxseed oil/rubbing balm are going to significantly increase your strength!?!

not sure if anyone has read the article from the chronicle on this: http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/03/MNGGFA0UDU65.DTL

apparently the prosecutors confronted him about records dating from 01 to 03 detailing a long list of drugs including human growth hormone, Depo-Testosterone, undetectable steroids known as "the cream" and "the clear," insulin and Clomid, a drug for female infertility sometimes used to enhance the effect of testosterone.

well, if he gets fired for this, he could always be a spokesman for flaxseed. :p
 
Barham said:
The second article sounds like something out of the Salem Witch hunt. The first only admits that he used it unknowingly. I believe him.

It's too bad that this is the way things are going. This kind of use will destroy professional sports.

-Hasta
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It would be very difficult to get an injection without you knowledge. If it were me, I would know what was being injected into my body. This is a very serious medication. It causes obvious physical and mental changes.

Otherwise he is very old school, "Whatever you say doc." The no questions ask approach. :( :eek:
 
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