Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Book Excerpt Explores Apple's 'Soul Sucking' Information Systems & Technology Team
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
You sound dangerously like a socialist. In the current political climate, you could be ostracized for this!
I agree, it seems to me that Apple has lost that piece that said "if you build them better, they will come" and was replaced with "how much profit can we pull out of each product".
Whether right or wrong depends on where you sit on the product vs profit fence, but I believe Steve was a bit more product driven, where Tim is obviously more profit driven.
Still, the foundation Steve (and his team) laid down was SO good that to this day Apple has been able to build in enough quality into it, enough to stay ahead in most areas that matter.
macOS, i(Pad)OS, A-series chips, and the App Stores, all are all-Steve at heart.
You didn't read this carefully - the comparison was with "IT" sweatshops. Not traditional sweatshops you might be thinking about in textile, manufacturing and the like.
Keep in mind that most of India IT workers have university degrees and tend to be reasonably qualified knowledge workers. They are not exactly poor villagers assembling trinkets at a factory. So the "IT sweatshop" is a completely different level.
When I worked the phones at AppleCare, my phone stopped working—callers at first couldn’t hear me and it progressed to calls randomly dropping, which was great for my metrics 🙄.
I created an IS&T ticket which took 2 MONTHS to be resolved. At first they told me to jiggle the headset connector, then they replaced the headset five times (the company **reuses old ones** after disinfecting them, or so they claim), I bought my OWN ****ing $100 headset to prove to them the problem wasn’t the headset.
My supervisors (our team went through 4 in 3 months—an anecdote for another time) and area manager were helpless.
Not until I recorded sample calls with my own iPhone did they replace the base unit, and voila it worked!
Don’t get me started on the clusterduck that is their ticketing system . . .
I created an IS&T ticket which took 2 MONTHS to be resolved. At first they told me to jiggle the headset connector, then they replaced the headset five times (the company **reuses old ones** after disinfecting them, or so they claim), I bought my OWN ****ing $100 headset to prove to them the problem wasn’t the headset.
My supervisors (our team went through 4 in 3 months—an anecdote for another time) and area manager were helpless.
Not until I recorded sample calls with my own iPhone did they replace the base unit, and voila it worked!
Don’t get me started on the clusterduck that is their ticketing system . . .
THIS. Competing contractors always create a toxic work environment.
Congratulations, Apple bean counters! You get what you pay for. 👏🏽
[automerge]1586303605[/automerge]
In my experience, the varying levels of software quality between contractors is a source of constant frustration. It's impossible to get rival contractors to agree on common coding conventions and procedures.
Sometimes one contractor has to rewrite code from another contractor, because the code is buggy, difficult to maintain, or just completely wrong. In other cases excellent and well-documented code can be scrapped by the same process.
Corporate America needs to seriously rethink the contractor race to the bottom. It is a terribly inefficient way to create and maintain software.
[automerge]1586303997[/automerge]
In the context of IT, the sweatshop analogy refers to software that is created in the quickest and cheapest way possible. For those who maintain these projects, it usually means code that resembles spaghetti more than well-ordered waffles, to use another analogy.
Last edited:
For those of you that have never hired a contractor from a staffing agency, remember that whatever hourly rate they quote the hiring company is not going directly to the contractor. If $55 was the rate from the firm, the contractor was certainly not taking that all. The firm has their profit, plus any overhead (if they offer benefits, etc). Plus all their “client lunches” (rolling eyes).
Just some insight. Depending on what the contractor is doing, that likely leaves them fairly underpaid compared to the market rate (especially given the location of Apple HQ)....
I'm very familiar with contracting. It's not uncommon for firm rates to be 3-4x the contractor's rate. We know from reading the anecdote in the article the $55/hr was the actual contractor's rate of pay:
"Apple also has unrealistic expectations for the IS&T team, paying consulting companies as much as $150 an hour while contractors make much less, up to $55 per hour, leaving Apple with "lesser contractors" to fill the "same high demands."
We're both saying the same thing. Contractor pay, relative to their corporate contemporaries, is fairly low.
Ah my reading comprehension has failed me tonight. and it wasn’t directed at you, there were several comments about it. Apologies!
Nonetheless, $55/hr may not be market rate for that area. I’m in Austin and it’s likely not here either and while we are getting more expensive, we certainly aren’t as expensive! Now I’m just curious.
LMAO! Not at you of course.
I fully agree that Apple needs to fix this IS&T program and initiative, yet this 'learker or writer seems to be disgruntled heavily. In this climate someone PLEASE tutor me (free for now, big dollars in 1yr) to so that I can make $55/hr as an Apple coder for iOS/WatchOS ... $150/hr is very extreme, while $55/hr is more than generous ... I don't see how that feels like worse than working in a sweatshop other than pressure. At least those workers have some work stability if in horrendous conditions and morale. Seems like many IS&T contractor can make money on their own or on the side or elsewhere if their that good.
Love how these people think they're breaking news. Welcome to Corporate America. Things aren't rosy.
However, this is usually someone's sour grapes perspective on how things go, not necessarily a 100% accurate picture. You aren't forced to stay and usually you have some latitude to move around or improve your situation.
At the end of the day, working in corporate is by nature soul sucking and hard work. No one cares about anything except moving up and getting the job done, quicker, faster, cheaper, and still making the most money possible.
However, this is usually someone's sour grapes perspective on how things go, not necessarily a 100% accurate picture. You aren't forced to stay and usually you have some latitude to move around or improve your situation.
At the end of the day, working in corporate is by nature soul sucking and hard work. No one cares about anything except moving up and getting the job done, quicker, faster, cheaper, and still making the most money possible.
But that's rare. In many large companies, "desktop support" is handled by a group of "lesser-important" contractors. Apparently the entire IT as well. Even software companies do this.
Have you tried browsing the Apple Discussion Community? The way some of those people write their responses and practically beg for upvotes, I don't know what they are up to. Are they just lonely or are they trying to audition for a help desk/customer service job at Apple?
Apple external tech/customer support prefers to hire empathetic greenies so that they’re able to instill the Apple Way. They also hope new hires won’t realize how underpaid they are.
They put them next to the Volt contractors who make $13/hour, don’t receive benefits or perks like beer bash access in Caffe Macs, nor are they awarded restricted stock units.
Never work for a company you admire . . .
I’m an IT engineering consultant, and I like what I do because I enjoy knowing my entire job is just doing the things other companies can’t or won’t do. My colleagues’ and I’s presence in an office full of the company’s FTEs is a signal to them that their company is either too incompetent or too greedy to do what needs to get done.
A big part of the problem is management. If they don't know how to task people effectively - and guide them or a team through the accomplishment of a given task - the employees will not feel like what they do is important enough to matter. I once had a supervisor who would task his team via email. If anyone had any questions, he would say, "It's in the email," and wouldn't explain further.
[automerge]1586368089[/automerge]
Best comment in this thread.
I dont know if they should be complaining. I used to work in a shoe recycling factory, now that was sole destroying.