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Seventeen more states have joined the antitrust lawsuit against Apple and several book publishing houses over the pricing of ebooks. Perhaps more interesting are certain details released in the latest filing that were previously redacted, including one from Steve Jobs. Portions of this email have been seen before, but this is the first chance the public has had to see a major negotiation written by the former CEO.

As reported by PaidContent, Steve Jobs became directly involved in the pricing negotiations after Apple executive "Eddy Cue could not secure one of the Conspiring Publisher's commitment directly from an executive." Jobs "wrote to an executive at the parent company, in part":
As I see it, [Conspiring Publisher] has the following choices:

1. Throw in with Apple and see if we can all make a go of this to create a real mainstream ebooks market at $12.99 and $14.99.

2. Keep going with Amazon at $9.99. You will make a bit more money in the short term, but in the medium term Amazon will tell you they will be paying you 70% of $9.99. They have shareholders too.

3. Hold back your books from Amazon. Without a way for customers to buy your ebooks, they will steal them. This will be the start of piracy and once started, there will be no stopping it. Trust me, I've seen this happen with my own eyes.

Maybe I'm missing something, but I don't see any other alternatives. Do you?
The complaint goes on to claim that the publishers and Apple "worked together to force" Random House -- the one publishing company to turn down the agency pricing model favored by Apple -- to adopt it as well. The claim goes so far as to claim that publishing companies tried to convince Barnes & Noble to not feature Random House books in any of its advertising, something that B&N apparently did.

Regarding the case, Apple has publicly defended itself and also said it wants to defend itself in a jury trial, saying that allegations against the company were "simply not true."

Article Link: Book Pricing Lawsuit Reveals More Details of Apple's Negotiations, Including Steve Jobs Email
 
Maybe he was trying to simply outline the options and inform the publishing company? Maybe?

This doesn't look so good...
 
I'm missing something here. Jobs gives an alternative to publishers to break the monopoly Amazon had on the market and now he's a criminal? Isn't that called competition?
 
I'm missing something here. Jobs gives an alternative to publishers to break the monopoly Amazon had on the market and now he's a criminal? Isn't that called competition?

You are missing something, beginning with Amazon's so-called "monopoly." They do not have a monopoly on anything. Second, antitrust law is not criminal law, so nobody is being called a criminal. Third, for someone to be a criminal, they must be alive. Other than that, you got it right.
 
I see nothing wrong with Steve Jobs' email. He simply pointed out the reality of the current marketplace and confronted the fact that Amazon was controlling their pricing. This is competition. Specifically, what Steve Jobs was doing was bringing out competition in an emerging market before piracy simply destroyed it.

He was right.

No where in that email does he say "Do this or else," or "do this or we will hurt you." Nor does he say, "Do this at the exclusion of our competitors."
 
There's a difference between supposedly attempting what looks like fixing, and actually fixing. here is a screenshot of the New Releases- the prices vary a lot here and in other categories:

The DOJ wants a quick settlement and create the illusion they actually do something good for consumers, and advance individuals careerism. If they want to do us good, clean up the damn food supply, and stop pandering to wall street, and end the tax subsidies to huge corporate farms that sell corn for an addative in EVERYTHING, end the tax breaks on the oil companies. Apple knows this and will teach these schmucks a lesson - no settlement - go to court and create a platform to call out the governments blind eye towards Amazon. Apple has more money then they do - they just brought a knife to a bazooka fight. Oh, wait, they can just print more.
 

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The same way it always turns out. A big fat payoff for lawyers and next to no change for the consumer ;)

Next time you get rear-ended and suffer personal injuries, feel free to hire a "consumer" to negotiate your settlement with the other driver's insurance company...
 
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Next time you get rear-ended, feel free to hire a "consumer" to negotiate your settlement with the other driver's insurance company...

I negotiated a settlement when I got in a car accident. I'm a consumer. Everything paid for, free rental car, all was well.

But I get your point. Haha
 
I see nothing wrong with Steve Jobs' email. He simply pointed out the reality of the current marketplace and confronted the fact that Amazon was controlling their pricing. This is competition. Specifically, what Steve Jobs was doing was bringing out competition in an emerging market before piracy simply destroyed it.

He was right.

No where in that email does he say "Do this or else," or "do this or we will hurt you." Nor does he say, "Do this at the exclusion of our competitors."

A bit of context might help, like reading the linked article instead of just the excerpt on MR. The allegation is that Apple and several of the publishers ganged up on Random House to force them to go along, an allegation that seems to be supported by the chat between Apple and the publishers. This is serious stuff, and the fact that 31 state Attorneys General are already on board spells real trouble for Apple.
 
If any more state Attorneys General bring suit, they'll start referring to it as AppleCare!:D
 
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There's a difference between supposedly attempting what looks like fixing, and actually fixing. here is a screenshot of the New Releases- the prices vary a lot here and in other categories:

The DOJ wants a quick settlement and create the illusion they actually do something good for consumers, and advance individuals careerism. If they want to do us good, clean up the damn food supply, and stop pandering to wall street, and end the tax subsidies to huge corporate farms that sell corn for an addative in EVERYTHING, end the tax breaks on the oil companies. Apple knows this and will teach these schmucks a lesson - no settlement - go to court and create a platform to call out the governments blind eye towards Amazon. Apple has more money then they do - they just brought a knife to a bazooka fight. Oh, wait, they can just print more.

I like you. I think we could be friends!

----------

A bit of context might help, like reading the linked article instead of just the excerpt on MR. The allegation is that Apple and several of the publishers ganged up on Random House to force them to go along, an allegation that seems to be supported by the chat between Apple and the publishers. This is serious stuff, and the fact that 31 state Attorneys General are already on board spells real trouble for Apple.

Wait a sec- I read it and reread it- I'm not seeing where Apple and the other publishers conspired. I'm just seeing the publishers conspired. Not challenging- just looking for where the conspiracy is shown that includes apple.
 
...Wait a sec- I read it and reread it- I'm not seeing where Apple and the other publishers conspired. I'm just seeing the publishers conspired. Not challenging- just looking for where the conspiracy is shown that includes apple.

Thank goodness for Apple, the Plaintiffs are allowed to only introduce one email into evidence!:D
 
Wait a sec- I read it and reread it- I'm not seeing where Apple and the other publishers conspired. I'm just seeing the publishers conspired. Not challenging- just looking for where the conspiracy is shown that includes apple.

The gist of this all along is that it doesn't work without Apple's agency model driving the entire process, without Apple acting as the ringleader. It begins to look like Apple pulls while the agreeing publishers push, leaving any publisher that doesn't go along in screwsville.
 
The gist of this all along is that it doesn't work without Apple's agency model driving the entire process, without Apple acting as the ringleader. It begins to look like Apple pulls while the agreeing publishers push, leaving any publisher that doesn't go along in screwsville.

Ok fair enough. But tO be clear- there aren't any emails where Apple is communicating with the publishers to fix prices- its the publishers on board bullying Randomhouse?
 
Ok fair enough. But tO be clear- there aren't any emails where Apple is communicating with the publishers to fix prices- its the publishers on board bullying Randomhouse?

We don't really know what the DoJ has, only what has surfaced in the media. At this point we know for sure only that it is enough for the DoJ and 31 states to press a lawsuit. But the real take-away point is that Apple wasn't alone in being charged with a price-fixing conspiracy. Several of the publishers have already settled. Apple is choosing to duke it out, to what end I have no idea, since the agency model is effectively dead now anyway. Shades of Microsoft charging into the valley of death, out of some misguided principle.
 
The gist of this all along is that it doesn't work without Apple's agency model driving the entire process, without Apple acting as the ringleader. It begins to look like Apple pulls while the agreeing publishers push, leaving any publisher that doesn't go along in screwsville.
I don't get why the design of a successful business model that only applies to those who participate, is couched in terms like conspiracy, ringleader, screwsville, liable, etc. I know this country has become socialist and very over regulated and over enforced to the point checkpoints and random searches have become a prevalent fact of life, but at what point is a business allowed to create a business so it can pay taxes to support all those government leeches?

Procter and Gamble (the soap opera folks) recently moved their HQ from Cincinnati, OH, USA to Singapore. It was the right and rational thing to do. I wonder who is next? I wonder how many are next?

Rocketman
 
I'm missing something here. Jobs gives an alternative to publishers to break the monopoly Amazon had on the market and now he's a criminal? Isn't that called competition?
If it allowed them to continue to sell on Amazon for $9.99, while selling on Apple for $12.99, then yes, that would be competition; however, Apple said that a publisher cannot sell their books cheaper anywhere else if they want to sell on iBooks. This is the part that is price fixing and is illegal.
 
I'm missing something here. Jobs gives an alternative to publishers to break the monopoly Amazon had on the market and now he's a criminal? Isn't that called competition?

Yes, you are missing lots. You misunderstand the situation in at least 3 ways:
1) Apple is in trouble for competing against Amazon.
2) Assuming that Amazon had a monopoly, that Amazon was bad because of it.
3) More competitors is good.


1)
The law is about preserving or allowing competition, not competitors. The end goal is about letting the regulated market generate benefit for consumers. Apple did become a new competitor, but DOJ asserts that Apple eliminated / prevented price competition. There are other companies trying to jump into the ebook market as well, but only Apple tried preventing competition on price. This is what they are in trouble for.

2)
The laws are not anti-monopoly. Monopolies are seen as a reward, in legal and economic fields, as a reward for doing well in the competition -- which Amazon did in this case. The reason why monopolies are the ones that run afoul of anti-trust laws, is because you need a big enough market power in order to succeed with unfair market practices. There's no fear, in a market with lots of small competitors, for one of them to unfairly limit competition or competitors.

Amazon, even if they had a monopoly, was winning the market fair and square. It kept driving down prices to a point that was still profitable for them but others couldn't keep up. Consumers kept benefiting from the low prices, and given Amazon's success, it meant that's what consumers wanted. And this, making the market generate value for the consumer, is the goal of competition law.

3)
Apple, on the other hand, killed off price competition in the market (if the DOJ is correct). They forced competition to be on a narrower set of product attributes. What Apple did was not to compete better, but to prevent competition in the product attribute they couldn't. Rather than let consumers choose between Kindle and a lower price vs iBooks and a higher price -- Apple made it so you had to choose between Kindle vs iBooks at the same higher price.

Given that Amazon was winning the ebooks market, and Apple's own memo, it means that consumers care about price more than other product qualities. Because of Apple, consumers can't benefit from price competition. 1 competitor, or 300 competitor, you will always get the same price. No matter how many competitors, there is no competition on the thing customers cared the most about -- price. So then what's the point of having these competitors?

Anyhow, this whole thing is called price fixing. A fundamental element behind it is that there are multiple "competitors" who don't compete on price. (If there weren't multiple "competitors" then you wouldn't need to "fix" the price.)



P.S. For those who actually understand this case, I know I made quite a few shortcuts. I apologize.
 
I'm missing something here. Jobs gives an alternative to publishers to break the monopoly Amazon had on the market and now he's a criminal? Isn't that called competition?

I'm curious about that too. Amazon's price is like Apple's pricing of .99 per track. The record companies didn't want Apple to set the price, and I can see why they'd do that. When Jobs urged them, publicly, to end DRM, was that criminal? And was their response, to give lower-cost non-DRMed mp3s to Amazon, collusion?

For the record, I don't think so. What the fight was over was who controlled the pricing. Jobs extracted non-DRMed music from all participants, and in return he gave them control of pricing. They choose which to sell for $9.99 an album, or $12.99 or whatever. They supplied the files with no DRM, only a watermark. Collusion? No, it's business.

Once Apple started iBooks, did they keep the Kindle App off the iTunes App Store? No. Or any other reader? No. Amazon is keeping a lot of titles exclusive to itself, and keeping the price at $9.99. First no publisher wanted to withhold their works from Amazon, despite the alleged price-fixing. Amazon paid them less, but they didn't dare pull back from the number one. That's the use of monopoly. Low, low prices is the morality of a shopkeeper. Screw anything else, but I'm selling it cheep.
 
Amazon's the crybaby criminal here

They're the one that complained to the DOJ. Have you noticed, they're getting fewer titles? No, you haven't. Are the evil conspirators forcing Amazon's prices up? No. In fact, they're retaliated against publishers lowering their prices elsewhere by lowering theirs to $0. The only thing Amazon prices are about is hooking people on Amazon, not on books or publishers or movies or anything else.

Apple's iBooks are better-looking, and more likely to contain movies and art. So they cost a little more. Not worth it? I'm sure you can get almost all the same books on Amazon. Most only on Amazon.
 
What I see in this is the fallacy that a lower price is always better for the consumer. This is not true. The question, is it a FAIR price? To that I love iBooks and have bought more books through my iPad than I ever bought on Amazon.com or in a brick and mortar. When the price approaches the cost, everyone loses. Stores can't stay in business, manufacturers/publishers can't stay in business and small players can't enter the market because you can't bring a new product out at the price point of a mature product. All of these conditions are bad for business, workers, and consumers.
 
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