MP 7,1 Boot screen on 7.1 with aftermarket GPU

[krakman]

I'm wondering.....

Lets say you buy a 7.1 with a RX580 GPU and you remove that gpu and repalce it with a Vega 64 or a Radeon VII, will there be boot screens????

Presumably the boot rom on a 7.1 supports the latest protocols so we won't have missing boot screens like we do with the 5.1.

Or is there some code in the BIOS of the Apple supplied GPU which can be flashed into an after market AMD GPU to provide boot screens on a 5.1 ????

Any thoughts ?????

 

[tsialex]

I'm wondering.....

Lets say you buy a 7.1 with a RX580 GPU and you remove that gpu and repalce it with a Vega 64 or a Radeon VII, will there be boot screens????

Presumably the boot rom on a 7.1 supports the latest protocols so we won't have missing boot screens like we do with the 5.1.

Or is there some code in the BIOS of the Apple supplied GPU which can be flashed into an after market AMD GPU to provide boot screens on a 5.1 ????

Any thoughts ?????

People tested this with Mac mini 2018 after the Catalina firmware upgrades and aftermarket GOP AMD PCs GPUs now work fine for pre-boot configuration support when installed via eGPU. Mac mini 2018 was the first Mac that this was seamless, nothing needed with the GPUs firmware whatsoever, GOP working perfectly.

Now we need to confirm the same with 2019 Mac Pro.

 

[mikeboss]

some german user confirmed boot screens working with an Asus Strix RX590 installed.

 

[goMac]

some german user confirmed boot screens working with an Asus Strix RX590 installed.

View attachment 883634

Things are going to be real different around here without people asking all the time how to flash cards.

 

[h9826790]

some german user confirmed boot screens working with an Asus Strix RX590 installed.

View attachment 883634

Any link?

And a more important test, only boot with the RX590.

Even I believe that test result is valid. However, if the 7,1 works similar as 5,1. Then as long as the stock 580X has the required tailor made EFI. The 7,1 can read that and use that to correctly activate the RX590 to provide boot screen.

To make it clear, I am not saying that the 7,1 is using any Mac specific EFI. However, even it is, the RX590 may still able to show boot screen as long as the 580X is there.

So, a test with only 3rd party graphic card installed is required to confirm boot screen availability.

 

[mikeboss]

Any link?

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[fiatlux]

Even I believe that test result is valid. However, if the 7,1 works similar as 5,1. Then as long as the stock 580X has the required tailor made EFI. The 7,1 can read that and use that to correctly activate the RX590 to provide boot screen.

To make it clear, I am not saying that the 7,1 is using any Mac specific EFI. However, even it is, the RX590 may still able to show boot screen as long as the 580X is there.

I am not sure what you mean there but I can assure you that having the original GT-120 and an RX580 at the same time in a MP 5,1 does not help in making the RX580 display anything on the boot screen. I still had to switch cables to get the boot selection screen (if needed).

The generic cards do not have a Mac EFI compatible ROM that would be required to display anything before the drivers are loaded.

I understand the latest Macs now have UEFI like recent PCs, problem solved!

 

[h9826790]

I am not sure what you mean there but I can assure you that having the original GT-120 and an RX580 at the same time in a MP 5,1 does not help in making the RX580 display anything on the boot screen. I still had to switch cables to get the boot selection screen (if needed).

The generic cards do not have a Mac EFI compatible ROM that would be required to display anything before the drivers are loaded.

I understand the latest Macs now have UEFI like recent PCs, problem solved!

The 580X and RX590 is the same GPU practically. So, the 580X's EFI may able to activate the RX590 (if the 580X has special EFI).

If you have two HD7950, one flashed, and non flashed. As long as you install both graphic card into the cMP. Both HD7950 will able to display boot screen, even on the non flashed one.

The cMP will read the EFI from the flashed HD7950 and activate all applicable GPU (e.g. HD7950, HD7970, R9280, R9 280X....)

In your case, the GT120's EFI cannot activate the RX580, they are not from the same family, not even from the same manufacture.

 

[goMac]

The 580X and RX590 is the same GPU practically. So, the 580X's EFI may able to activate the RX590 (if the 580X has special EFI).

If you have two HD7950, one flashed, and non flashed. As long as you install both graphic card into the cMP. Both HD7950 will able to display boot screen, even on the non flashed one.

I'm pretty sure this is not true. No machine would ever make this assumption because the same GPU from two different manufacturers might intentionally have different ROMs. A ROM from one 7950 could be completely incompatible with another 7950. A great example is the 680 - 680s can require specialized ROMs for each card.

Even if it was, the 590 and 580 have different PCIe IDs. There'd be no way for the Mac Pro to know they were from the same family.

 

[h9826790]

I'm pretty sure this is not true. No machine would ever make this assumption because the same GPU from two different manufacturers might intentionally have different ROMs. A ROM from one 7950 could be completely incompatible with another 7950. A great example is the 680 - 680s can require specialized ROMs for each card.

Even if it was, the 590 and 580 have different PCIe IDs. There'd be no way for the Mac Pro to know they were from the same family.

The EFI part is the same.

There is only one Mac EFI UGA for HD7xxx card, all from the Sapphire HD7950 Mac Edition card.

I tested on my cMP with a 7950 and a R9 280. The R9 280 can show boot screen without flashing when installed with the Sapphire HD7950 Mac Edition card.

 

[08380728]

The EFI part is the same.

There is only one Mac EFI UGA for HD7xxx card, all from the Sapphire HD7950 Mac Edition card.

I tested on my cMP with a 7950 and a R9 280. The R9 280 can show boot screen without flashing when installed with the Sapphire HD7950 Mac Edition card.

Hrm this is interesting.

So my dilemma and questions, if this is the case, then what hack is possible to trick and force my Mojave Mac Pro 2010 to boot with the original Nvidia GT120?

3 x 30” connected only to my main GPU, which is the MSI Radeon RX580 Armor OC 8GB?

I won’t connect a display to the Nvidia GT120.

 

[tsialex]

Hrm this is interesting.

So my dilemma and questions, if this is the case, then what hack is possible to trick and force my Mojave Mac Pro 2010 to boot with the original Nvidia GT120?

3 x 30” connected only to my main GPU, which is the MSI Radeon RX580 Armor OC 8GB?

I won’t connect a display to the Nvidia GT120.

Mojave don't support mixing AMD and NVIDIA GPUs anymore.

GT120 don't even has drivers with Mojave, Tesla drivers died with High Sierra, it shows a screen just because is an Apple OEM EFI card and Mojave still has the generic unaccelerated EFI drivers, for diagnostics.

 

[h9826790]

Hrm this is interesting.

So my dilemma and questions, if this is the case, then what hack is possible to trick and force my Mojave Mac Pro 2010 to boot with the original Nvidia GT120?

3 x 30” connected only to my main GPU, which is the MSI Radeon RX580 Armor OC 8GB?

I won’t connect a display to the Nvidia GT120.

Your case is very very different.

My example (confirmed case), all GPU are from the HD7xxx family.

The case we are discussing are all from the same Polaris family.

In your case, the EFI part from the GT120 aren't compatible to the RX580. And even it does, there is some driver conflict when you install these two cards together. AFAIK, the OS can't even boot (regardless the card has Mac EFI UGA or not).

Anyway, my point is, to be 100% sure normal 3rd party PC card can show boot screen. A test which only has that particular 3rd party graphic card installed is required. With a same GPU family Apple card installed may produce false result.

 

[08380728]

Ok thanks for replies, god damned this Mac Pro is a PITA, nothing but dramas.

I supposed the only unexplored option remaining to try is to get the OpenCore boot loader configured with Whatevergreen kext in the Mac Pro and see if the RX580 gets a boot screen.

My Clover based Hackintosh has the Radeon RX580 in it and displays boot screen...and its less of a hassle than the Mac Pro but it can’t do target Disk mode which I need to do occasionally.

Someone needs to upload a working OpenCore EFI folder for the Mac Pro and share with us so we not all wasting our times figuring out how to get it working.

 

[goMac]

The EFI part is the same.

What I'm saying is that is not generally true. Not all EFI ROMs in all GPU families are the same.

So the Mac Pro can't just transpose ROMs and have things work right.

590 and 580 ROMs are also not the same.

 

[bsbeamer]

to be 100% sure normal 3rd party PC card can show boot screen. A test which only has that particular 3rd party graphic card installed is required. With a same GPU family Apple card installed may produce false result.

^^^ This. Until someone tests without an Apple-issued GPU in place, no one should assume anything about standard off the shelf PC GPUs in MP7,1.

 

[DearthnVader]

What I'm saying is that is not generally true. Not all EFI ROMs in all GPU families are the same.

So the Mac Pro can't just transpose ROMs and have things work right.

590 and 580 ROMs are also not the same.

I think AMD GOP driver supports multi GPUs, it’s sort of universal so long as the version is newer than the GPU, and it has the correct legacy vga bios.

You can’t use the GOP driver by itself, it requires the legacy vga bios.

What @h9826790 is trying to tell us is the driver from the stock RX580 maybe activating the RX590.

This would be expected as to what we know about UEFI drivers for video cards.

The way to test is without the OEM card installed.
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Also, does anyone know if the 7,1 has PCI-E power connections?

 

[goMac]

What @h9826790 is trying to tell us is the driver from the stock RX580 maybe activating the RX590.

And what I'm saying is that doesn't make any sense because the 580 and 590 use different ROMs. It's not the same ROM.

I think AMD GOP driver supports multi GPUs, it’s sort of universal so long as the version is newer than the GPU, and it has the correct legacy vga bios.

I don't think that's how GOP works. GOP can't hop from card to card. You can't make a second card suddenly spawn a GOP frame buffer just because another card has one. GOP requires both support on the card itself and the computer.

There is no reason that a card that knows nothing about GOP would suddenly gain GOP support just because another card has GOP.

Even if AMD did abstract that into a way that worked... probably would not work at all between two completely different GPUs. Even if underneath they're the same family, the PCIe IDs are different and they wouldn't look like the same card to EFI.

 

[h9826790]

What I'm saying is that is not generally true. Not all EFI ROMs in all GPU families are the same.

That's why I mentioned in post #8, 580X and RX590 are from the same family, which the 580X EFI may able to make RX590 display boot screen.

The 580X and RX590 is the same GPU practically. So, the 580X's EFI may able to activate the RX590 (if the 580X has special EFI).

590 and 580 ROMs are also not the same.

Of course their ROMs are not the same, but EFI part can be shared. HD7950's ROM also not the same as R9 280X, their EFI part can also be shared.

It's NOT the VBIOS, but "if the EFI part is good enough to activate other GPU that from the same family", got it?

 

[DearthnVader]

And what I'm saying is that doesn't make any sense because the 580 and 590 use different ROMs. It's not the same ROM.



I don't think that's how GOP works. GOP can't hop from card to card. You can't make a second card suddenly spawn a GOP frame buffer just because another card has one. GOP requires both support on the card itself and the computer.

There is no reason that a card that knows nothing about GOP would suddenly gain GOP support just because another card has GOP.

Even if AMD did abstract that into a way that worked... probably would not work at all between two completely different GPUs. Even if underneath they're the same family, the PCIe IDs are different and they wouldn't look like the same card to EFI.

When the GOP driver loads, it loads for all the compatible GPUs it finds.

It phrases the legacy vga bios for each card and does the correct init tables for each.

 

[h9826790]

And what I'm saying is that doesn't make any sense because the 580 and 590 use different ROMs. It's not the same ROM.

Please treat the EFI as driver.

As long as the driver is loaded, it won't just active the source of driver, but all hardware that can be activated by that driver.

So, when the cMP load the Mac EFI UGA from a Sapphire HD7950 Mac Edition card, all other compatible graphic cards will be activated, and able to show boot screen.

I say again, this is NOT theory, but a known fact. I tested this on my own cMP. You can test that by yourself at as well.

So, since we don't know if there is any special EFI on the 580X, and we don't know if that can activate the RX590. We simply can't tell if that "RX590 can shows boot screen on 7,1" is accurate, because the 580X also installed in that test.

To give definitive result, the 580X must be removed, and only install the RX590.

I personally still tend to believe that the 7,1 simply use UEFI GOP. However, I just can't accept that as proper prove. Especially a similar setup on 5,1 can produce false result.

 

[UmarOMC]

Lets say you buy a 7.1 with a RX580 GPU and you remove that gpu and repalce it with a Vega 64 or a Radeon VII, will there be boot screens????

Radeon VII in mine. Yes, boot screen.

 

[tommy chen]

Radeon VII in mine. Yes, boot screen.

you can see also the driveselector ?

if not, this is not a bootscreen

 

[flowrider]

^^^^




Lou

 

[tsialex]

^^^^

View attachment 894352View attachment 894353View attachment 894354


Lou

BootPicker and single user mode/verbose boot is what most people want to see.