Bootcamp: stuck in Windows XP

Discussion in 'Windows, Linux & Others on the Mac' started by lucy.web, Dec 17, 2009.

  1. lucy.web macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    #1
    Hello,

    I am trying to set up an Intel Imac running Snow for my daughter. I got the Mac side looking how I wanted and then decided to install bootcamp. Up til now I have used Virtual Box so I am a bootcamp brand newbie and a windows newbie but not so much a mac newbie. The partitioning seemed to go O.K and installing the XP was really easy - so I should have suspected trouble was looming!

    Windows installed O.K but there were problems when I then tried to install the BootCamp drivers. I got error messages saying that the windows installer needed updating.

    This leaves me unable to boot out of Windows and switch back to Mac. Even if I start up with my finger on the alt button, it goes straight to Windows. I have also tried booting up with an external firewire drive attached (with has OS installed) but, again, the alt key won't give me the option of switching to it. I've tried booting up with the Snow disc in the disc drive holding down the C key. It goes straight into windows.

    I thought my XP disc included SP2, but now I suspect it doesn't. Its a really old disc. I downloaded SP2 on my other machine, burned it to a cd and tried to install it on the windows machine. I get an error message saying that there isn't enough space to install it, it needs 4mb more (weird?).

    I have tried going into the snow disc from within windows and installing the drivers separately, but it won't work. Same error message.

    I have tried changing the start up disc in Windows by going to control panels, system, start-up, but there is only one option listed in the 'default start up' list and that's windows.

    I suspect the alt key might not work because windows doesn't recognise the keyboard properly?

    Can anyone help me escape windows? I suspect there's something *really* simple I'm missing here.

    Once I get back into Mac X, my plan is to delete the existing bootcamp partition, set it up again but bigger (currently it's 10GB) and then re-install windows, install SP 2, install the BootCamp drivers. And then keep my fingers crossed.

    But I'm wondering if I should just stick with Virtual Box!
     
  2. balamw Moderator

    balamw

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Location:
    New England
    #2
    :eek: There's nothing indicating you have an OS X to get back to.

    Do you have a wired KB, wired mouse or Apple remote? There are sometimes issues with the Alt key if you only use a wireless KB. You can use the mouse or remote to pull up the boot selector, but the fact that you don't see it in control panel is unsettling to say the least.

    I don't think SP2 is your problem because you would not have made it this far.

    I don't think you did "the usual" and installed XP over OS X or you would have more space. So, hopefully your OS X partition didn't get damaged in the process somehow....

    What happens if you try to boot from the Windows CD using the alt button? Not C, Option/Alt?

    B
     
  3. RedTomato macrumors 68040

    RedTomato

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Location:
    .. London ..
    #3
    Oh dear. It does look as if OSX is gone from your HD. Possibly when you installed Windows, you accidentally reformatted your entire HD?

    The 10GB partition you mentioned, did you set that up within OSX's Boot Camp Assistant (good) or did you set it up using something like the Windows Install utility from Microsoft (not so good)?

    One thing to try:
    With a wired keyboard (any USB keyboard) try starting up while holding down T. This should put the iMac in Target disk mode. You can then use another computer, connected via firewire, to look at what's on the iMac HD.

    I just realised, am not sure, if OSX is gone, if the C or the T start-up options will work, as they may depend on OSX's boot drivers.

    Is there an option in Windows to reboot and start from DVD?
     
  4. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    #4
    Thanks for your replies and thoughts on this.

    It won't be a disaster if I've lost the Mac OS because the computer only arrived yesterday (it was bought 2nd hand) and so there's nothing on there apart from the software which I can install again.

    I set up the 10GB partition using bootcamp assistant from within Mac 10.6. Then I installed windows XP from my cd still using the bootcamp assistant. It was really easy and really quick and I remained within the Mac side throughout. Then the computer started up from the windows disc as expected - and at that point it was bye bye lovely Mac X, never to be seen again :(

    I just tried to start up from my windows cd. I held alt down at startup. I got the message about pressing any key if I want to start from cd and then windows booted up, from the cd. Now when I go into control panels/system/advanced I still only get 'microsoft windows XP /fastdetect' a the only option in the drop down list. Is that not a bit weird? Shouldn't I see the cd as a start-up option there? Or is there another way to select start up drives on windows?

    As I said, I am a complete windows newbie and I don't really know how to do anything within it.

    The computer won't start up in target mode. I tried that last night, sorry, should have said.

    ARGH!

    I'm happy to re-install the Mac software - but how do I do that when I can't start up from the dvd? Even if I hold down the c key (and for good measure I tried it with the alt key too) at startup I can't get it to boot from a Mac Installation disc. :(
     
  5. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    #5
    Sorry - forgot to say: It's a wired keyboard with a mouse (not a magic one) connected via usb to the keyboard.

    In the control panel (start menu/control panel) I can't find anything that says anything about boots. Also in 'classic view' - nada.
     
  6. kstswe macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2008
    #6
    that is the correct behaviour for Windows to not show the Mac partion because it is not aware of it.

    You will not see it in the boot.ini either.

    if you update Windows XP (i guess the installer is the problem ) but anyway , just update it all and then install thew bootcamp drivers you will get an option if you right click on the boot camp icon in the right corner, look like a grey square. When you right click on it, it says"restart into macosx" I think from the top of my head.

    but pressing "option" button after the beep when the machine start should have given you the option to pick what harddrive partion to boot into.
     
  7. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Dec 17, 2009
    #7
    I'm not sure how to update windows XP. I have service pack 2 on a cd ready to install but I get an error message saying that there is not enough room to install it.

    I can't update windows online because the windows side won't 'see' my airport connection yet.

    The alt key on start-up just goes straight into windows.
     
  8. CPPMaster macrumors member

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    Jun 12, 2009
    Location:
    VA/USA
    #8
    Google the error message , and you will have the procedure to avoid that error. You will need to make some changes on the registry (Microsoft, figures!).

    I had the same issue, and is easy to address.
     
  9. balamw Moderator

    balamw

    Staff Member

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    Aug 16, 2005
    Location:
    New England
    #9
    Please confirm that you don't already have SP2 before you spend a lot of effort trying to install it. Pre-SP2 installs usually fail far before where you are.

    http://pcsupport.about.com/od/tipstricks/ht/servicepackxp.htm

    B
     
  10. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Dec 17, 2009
    #10
  11. Nordichund macrumors 6502

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    Aug 21, 2007
    Location:
    Oslo, Norway
    #11
    After reading this thread, and since you say could reinstall all the software. I think that is what I would do in your situation. Then everything would be nice, clean and fresh. I might even stick in a larger HD.
    I would also throw the XP disc with SP1 away, where it can no longer do any harm.

    Good luck.
     
  12. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Dec 17, 2009
    #12
    I would *love* to do this ... but how? Normally I would boot up from a Mac X install dvd, and erase and re-install from there. But in this case I can't seem to boot up from the disc drive, or boot into anything other than windows. I can't boot up from an external firewire drive either, nor enable target mode on the machine to work on it from another mac. I am at a loss to know how to wipe it. :confused:

    I was hoping to be able to use the XP service pack 1 disc again, but this time allowing the windows partition loads more space and updating it with sp 2 (which I have on a cd) before trying to enable the boot camp stuff. Is this not a good idea?
     
  13. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Dec 17, 2009
    #13
    Hi - thanks for this. I did it all again to get the exact text of the error message and then googled it, as you suggested. It seems to be a common error message and the fix is to clear as much space as possible on the hd so that the installation goes successfully. I have tried the suggestions but to no avail - I still get the same error message. I will keep googling for more clues.

    What I would like to do is wipe the machine and re-install mac X, and then start again. But (as I just posted above) I have no idea how I can do this in my current situ.
     
  14. RedTomato macrumors 68040

    RedTomato

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Location:
    .. London ..
    #14
    I'm wondering if it is a HD problem now. This is a second hand iMac right? Possibly the HD has failed after going through all the reformatting and reinstalling?

    I am quite puzzled to be honest. I seem to remember you said you have a firewire external with a copy of OSX on it, and the iMac refused to boot from that too.

    Even with a defective HD, the iMac should still show signs of begining the boot process from DVD or go into firewire target mode.

    I wonder if the the EFI / Open Firmware (iMac BIOS) has been locked by the previous user?

    Bit of a wild shot, but you could try to get into what XP might think of as the BIOS - see http://www.ehow.com/how_5208213_change-startup-disk-xp.html

    Can you give details of the exact model of iMac you have, and let us know if you have access to any other computers - mac or PC to help with the repair?

    About the airport thing, if wifi doesn't work, use an ethernet cable to connect the iMac direct to the Airport. That should get you online in XP then you can do the updates. That seems important.
     
  15. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    #15
    Hi RedTomato

    I bought two identical imacs from a reputable seller on ebay.co.uk. I can access the other new imac - so far I've just set up the various Mac programmes etc on it. They are both 20 inch, 2GH intel imacs with 2GB RAM, 250 GB hard drives, running 10.6.2. I get the feeling they were both from the same place originally as they both had identical software installations on them (neo office, for example) and identical items in the dock.

    So I have one 'new to me' working imac and one identical imac stuck in windows. I also have a 24 inch 3.06gh imac with 1TB drive - that's my main machine. Also a little white macbook and my husband's macbook pro. Also various old machines in various states of disrepair! We're a very mac family ;)

    I don't have a pc. But my dad does and he knows a lot about pcs but unfortunately is snowed in a few miles away :eek:
    He is talking about coming over with a Linux disc which enables you to choose an option to boot from the first partition. But he can't try that until the snow is gone (we're in rural France).

    I definitely can't boot in target mode, or boot from my firewire drive. My firewire drive has a disc doctor type programme on it for exactly these situations, but I am at a complete loss to know what to do seeing as I can't boot from it. I've never experienced anything like this before.

    I am just about to try doing the BIOS thing within Windows and I will get back to you if any success.
     
  16. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Dec 17, 2009
    #16
    O.K tried the Bios thing but holding the F2 key just didn't work. The machine booted into windows, but giving me the option to boot from the cd instead.

    I have, I think, managed to install the apple keyboard driver from the bootcamp drivers on the leopard disk. Windows XP shows it in the list of installed software, anyway.

    I have just tried - again - using the alt key to force a choice of start-up drives, using the T key to force into target mode, and using the c key to start from the leopard installation disc ... no joy with any of them.

    I also tried starting up in verbose and single user mode - no joy there either.

    This is driving me mad!
     
  17. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Dec 17, 2009
    #17
    Forgot about this idea. I'm going to have a lunch break, have a calming chamomile tea (not a great time to have given up caffeine - but there you go!), and then try this. I have a time capsule sitting here on my desk right next to the Mac that thinks it's a P.C, so hopefully it should be straightforward. :rolleyes:
     
  18. RedTomato macrumors 68040

    RedTomato

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Location:
    .. London ..
    #18
    [EDIT - i didn't see the post above :) ]

    What happens if you put in a OSX DVD at that prompt?

    Further things to try to get it to restart from DVD:

    http://kb.iu.edu/data/ages.html

    Other things to check - is the DVD scratched? Does your other iMac read it properly / do a full copy of it to HD?

    Is the DVD drive working reliably - in Windows, can you read the OSX DVD / other DVDs?

    How did using an ethernet cable to connect to the Airport go? Sounds like you probably have one of these lying about, maybe in use by a different computer, that you could borrow.

    If nothing works, forget it, and go out and play in the snow :)
     
  19. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Dec 17, 2009
    #19

    Well, I couldn't get the ethernet connection to access the internet but I shall go back to that later.

    Following your advice I tried to start up the other 'new to me' imac from both the cd that shipped with it, and my own leopard installation dvd, by pressing the c key. It wouldn't work. This process works fine, as normal, using the same dvd on my own imac.

    So I suspect the two imacs may have open firmware protection enabled on them. I have emailed the seller to see if this is so.

    Any ideas how I can remove this? I am going to google it, of course.
     
  20. RedTomato macrumors 68040

    RedTomato

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2005
    Location:
    .. London ..
    #20
    Brilliant, we're getting somewhere!

    One other thing to check - do the DVD drives of your new iMacs work normally with various DVDs (data, video etc)

    It does seem that EFI firmware password protection explains all the issues you're having - see the table halfway down the page here

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1352

    How to remove it in OSX

    http://forums.macosxhints.com/showthread.php?t=59357

    Removing it without OSX

    http://www.davidjmoore.com/2008/04/13/bypassing-the-efi-firmware-password-on-a-mac/

    more info

    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=remove+efi+firmware+password
     
  21. CPPMaster macrumors member

    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2009
    Location:
    VA/USA
    #21
    **************************
    You may experience the following error when installing Windows XP Service Pack 3 (SP3) when installing on Intel iMAC using Bootcamp to run Windows XP.
    There is not enough disk space on C:\WINDOWS\$NtServicePackUninstall$ to install Service Pack 3 Setup requires an additional 4 megabytes of free space or if you also want to archive the files for uninstallation,Setup requires 4 additional megabytes of free space. Free additional space on your hard disk and then try again.

    This happens because iMac uses EFI file format which Windows XP does not support. To workaround this problem, add a registry key as follows:
    1. Click Start - Run - Type “regedit” and press enter.

    2. Navigate to

    [HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Setup]

    HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
    \Software
    \Microsoft
    \Windows
    \CurrentVersion
    \Setup

    3. In the right pane, Right-click and select New - String value

    4. Name it as “BootDir” and set its value to “C:\”

    This should help. Try installing SP3 and should work fine.
     
  22. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2009
    #22
    Yes, the 'mac Imac' reads data and video dvds fine.

    I was just reading the same articles that you linked to. It was such a relief to see all the 'symptoms' there. I am not going mad after all :)

    It's not straightforward to remove the password protection because the discs sent with the imacs don't seem to be restore ones, they are leopard installation ones and they don't have applications/utilities/open firmware on there.

    I am going to clear some space on my desk (which currently has 4 macs on it!) and do the ram and then the pram thing.

    What a nightmare - thanks so much for your help.
     
  23. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Dec 17, 2009
    #23

    Yay! I've no idea what you were doing there but this trick has now enabled me to finally install SP2.

    I'm going to try to resolve the suspected Firmware Password issue before continuing with bootcamp <nervous gulp>.

    Thankyou
     
  24. balamw Moderator

    balamw

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2005
    Location:
    New England
    #24
    Interesting you got so far with SP1 only!

    I would suggest that you do try to install the Boot Camp drivers after SP2, as this may help restore your ability to boot into Mac OS X from the Control Panel widget.

    Also, take some time to create a new slipstreamed Windows install CD that includes SP2 so you don't have to go through this again if you ever need to restore from scratch. http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_sp2_slipstream.asp

    B
     
  25. lucy.web thread starter macrumors newbie

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    Dec 17, 2009
    #25
    Oh the relief! I installed SP2 and then installed the boot camp drivers and everything went very smoothly, and I am now able to reboot into Mac :D

    Not so much luck with the ram and firmware password issue, but I'm working on it.
     

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