Bought M4 Pro Mini... Debating Returning and Waiting for M4 Max Studio

[MikePx96]

Hello, so I just bought an M4 Pro 12 Core CPU, 16 Core GPU 512GB with the 48GB Ram upgrade back in November. I spent $1,762 with the edu discount including tax.

So far I love the computer and it's a big upgrade over my 10 year old PC tower. My only concern is that it runs hot... over 100C when encoding video or working with heavier After Effects projects. Working in Final Cut Pro however is flawless and I almost never hear the fan. Although I still kinda regret waiting for the M4 Studio with better cooling.

I realized that if I wait for the M4 Max Studio in June, I can get the base model for $1800 + Tax. if I wait a little longer until August, I can take advantage of my state's tax-free holiday and save about $112. So it would end up only costing $38 more than my current Mac mini!! (assuming the base price stays the same)

Even if the base Studio stays At 32 GB RAM, I think that will be enough. The only reason I bought 48GB on my mini is because Apple didn't offer 32GB on the Pro model.

Of course, this is all assuming that the base M4 Max Studio remains the same price as the current one. Apple raised the price of the Pro Mac mini by $100 when the M4 Pro was released this year.

TLDR: My extended holiday return policy ends on January 8th so I'm debating whether I should return the M4 Pro Mac mini and wait for the M4 Max Studio. I've really gotten used to Mac and converted my files over from a 10 year old Windows PC, so it would be difficult (but not impossible) to go back to that setup for 8 months.

The Mac mini also fits perfectly on my desk whereas the Studio would have to sit on a 3 tier lamp shelf right above my router which might be bad for wifi/bluetooth.

What do you think? Thank you!

 

[blufrog]

Is it working? Is it slow?

Modern CPUs appear to be designed to run at thermal limit, so there is nothing to say the Studio wouldn't also "run hot". What matters is whether it is thermal throttling and killing performance or not.

You haven't actually said it is running slower; just "hot" and quoting the system stats.

If it isn't throttling and seriously hindering you actually getting stuff done, I'd say keep it. I have one and I'm about to put it through its paces.

If it helps, the latest AMD processors also run at thermal limit and throttle the clock speed (slightly). This is NOT slow; just a different way of dealing with the thermal ceiling. I think Apple are now doing the same thing.

The "old days" (last week...):

Processor gets hot; processor aggressively thermal throttles; clocks end up at 10% of base speed. System sucks.

The "new days":

Processor runs at base speed, gets some work to do, goes to turbo limit, warms up, hits thermal limit, reduces clock speed to cool (but still higher than base) then ramps up to a long-term stable higher-than-base clock while sitting at the thermal limit.

For the M4 Pro, the clocks are something like this:

2.8 GHz for normal stuff, then boosts to 4.4 GHz under load, throttle to 3.0 GHz to cool when it hits the thermal ceiling, then ramps to 3.4-3.8 GHz or so and sits there for the rest of its life.

 

[Ray2]

I’m waiting. The temps don’t bother me as much as listening to a fan. I avoid using my Thunderbolt dock. I get stronger graphics performance - which I can use.

 

[MikePx96]

Is it working? Is it slow?

Modern CPUs appear to be designed to run at thermal limit, so there is nothing to say the Studio wouldn't also "run hot". What matters is whether it is thermal throttling and killing performance or not.

You haven't actually said it is running slower; just "hot" and quoting the system stats.

If it isn't throttling and seriously hindering you actually getting stuff done, I'd say keep it. I have one and I'm about to put it through its paces.

If it helps, the latest AMD processors also run at thermal limit and throttle the clock speed (slightly). This is NOT slow; just a different way of dealing with the thermal ceiling. I think Apple are now doing the same thing.

The "old days" (last week...):

Processor gets hot; processor aggressively thermal throttles; clocks end up at 10% of base speed. System sucks.

The "new days":

Processor runs at base speed, gets some work to do, goes to turbo limit, warms up, hits thermal limit, reduces clock speed to cool (but still higher than base) then ramps up to a long-term stable higher-than-base clock while sitting at the thermal limit.

For the M4 Pro, the clocks are something like this:

2.8 GHz for normal stuff, then boosts to 4.4 GHz under load, throttle to 3.0 GHz to cool when it hits the thermal ceiling, then ramps to 3.4-3.8 GHz or so and sits there for the rest of its life.

Thank you for the explanation of how the clock speeds work. I don't see a way to check my active clock speeds as I'm working but it doesn't seem to be slowing down at all. Video exports in After Effects and encodes in Handbrake are about 5X faster than on my old 4790k PC. I was just getting concerned over the effects of the temps on the computer long term but it sounds like it is designed to get hot.

The fan noise doesn't even bother me either coming from a PC tower. The fans on that computer ran all the time and it was much louder.

I tested TG Pro and adjusted the fan speed to ramp up 10% for every 10 degrees C that the CPU/GPU increased starting at 60C. This resulted in keeping the max temps in the low 90C range but I'm not sure if it's really necessary.

 

[russell_314]

Thank you for the explanation of how the clock speeds work. I don't see a way to check my active clock speeds as I'm working but it doesn't seem to be slowing down at all. Video exports in After Effects and encodes in Handbrake are about 5X faster than on my old 4790k PC. I was just getting concerned over the effects of the temps on the computer long term but it sounds like it is designed to get hot.

The fan noise doesn't even bother me either coming from a PC tower. The fans on that computer ran all the time and it was much louder.

I tested TG Pro and adjusted the fan speed to ramp up 10% for every 10 degrees C that the CPU/GPU increased starting at 60C. This resulted in keeping the max temps in the low 90C range but I'm not sure if it's really necessary.

I seriously doubt the ultra is going to run any cooler. The computer is going to run at its set speed and then complete the task. The ultra is just going to do it quicker. If the mini works for what you’re doing then I don’t see returning it then spending more money on something that’s not going to do it better. Maybe it will be faster, but is that important to you?

 

[MikePx96]

I seriously doubt the ultra is going to run any cooler. The computer is going to run at its set speed and then complete the task. The ultra is just going to do it quicker. If the mini works for what you’re doing then I don’t see returning it then spending more money on something that’s not going to do it better. Maybe it will be faster, but is that important to you?

If I did return the mini I would go with the base M4 Max Studio, not the Ultra. The Ultra would be way overkill for what I need.

The mini so far has been powering through everything I throw at it and I've been really happy with it so far.

I was mostly just comparing prices after the fact realizing that with the 48gb ram upgrade I bought, I could've got a Studio instead with better cooling and bonus GPU cores. Damn Apple and their weird pricing ladder lol.

I guess there's also no guarantee that the base M4 Max Studio will remain the same price as the M2 Max either. With my luck, I'll wait for it and it's $300 more expensive because of tariffs or something else and my price comparison goes out the window haha.

 

[Kotsos81]

I don't know whether Mac Studio with M4 Max 16C will be priced similar to the M2 Max version or not, since M4 Max 16C already achieves the multicore performance of M2 Ultra while being significantly faster in single-core. Let's see.

 

[Ifti]

I've been very tempted with a Mac Mini, although decided to wait for the M4 Max Studio instead, mainly because I want more ports and better cooling.
Bear this is mind though - if you are already feeling regret, it will only feel worse when the M4 Max Studio is finally available.......

 

[dcpmark]

I think the correct advice is what others have given on numerous occasions every time this issue comes up…… if you NEED a new Mac now, keep the Mini Pro and don’t look back. If you don’t need it now, then wait…… you will always have the option of buying the Mini Pro when the Mac Studio comes out and it’s more expensive than you wanna pay.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

Hello, so I just bought an M4 Pro 12 Core CPU, 16 Core GPU 512GB with the 48GB Ram upgrade back in November. I spent $1,762 with the edu discount including tax.

So far I love the computer and it's a big upgrade over my 10 year old PC tower. My only concern is that it runs hot... over 100C when encoding video or working with heavier After Effects projects. Working in Final Cut Pro however is flawless and I almost never hear the fan. Although I still kinda regret waiting for the M4 Studio with better cooling.

I realized that if I wait for the M4 Max Studio in June, I can get the base model for $1800 + Tax. if I wait a little longer until August, I can take advantage of my state's tax-free holiday and save about $112. So it would end up only costing $38 more than my current Mac mini!! (assuming the base price stays the same)

Even if the base Studio stays At 32 GB RAM, I think that will be enough. The only reason I bought 48GB on my mini is because Apple didn't offer 32GB on the Pro model.

Of course, this is all assuming that the base M4 Max Studio remains the same price as the current one. Apple raised the price of the Pro Mac mini by $100 when the M4 Pro was released this year.

TLDR: My extended holiday return policy ends on January 8th so I'm debating whether I should return the M4 Pro Mac mini and wait for the M4 Max Studio. I've really gotten used to Mac and converted my files over from a 10 year old Windows PC, so it would be difficult (but not impossible) to go back to that setup for 8 months.

The Mac mini also fits perfectly on my desk whereas the Studio would have to sit on a 3 tier lamp shelf right above my router which might be bad for wifi/bluetooth.

What do you think? Thank you!

Seems like you have a working box. If you return it you have no Mac for months, IMO unacceptable. If the Mini works do not return it.

Note also that the next Studio is an unknown. We do not know when it will be available or pricing.

 

[Leading_Top_7001]

it is 8 months wait, maybe you can wait for m5 pro?

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Just keep the Mini.
Also, eight months is just a guess, it’s quite possible we might not see a new studio until October/November… Or they could choose to skip another generation and we might not see it until 2026… Only Apple knows.
But the new Mini is available today, you are using it today, it’s blasting through your work today.
I wouldn’t worry at all about the cooling, there are still people getting by just fine on Intel Mini’s that run way hotter.

 

[zgagato]

So far I love the computer and it's a big upgrade over my 10 year old PC tower. My only concern is that it runs hot... over 100C when encoding video or working with heavier After Effects projects. Working in Final Cut Pro however is flawless and I almost never hear the fan. Although I still kinda regret waiting for the M4 Studio with better cooling.

Maybe use istat menus on your mini and set the fan to spin faster?
This way it will be cooler. After this heavy use set the fans back to automatic.

It will be quieter than any desktop PC anyway

 

[Leading_Top_7001]

Just keep the Mini.
Also, eight months is just a guess, it’s quite possible we might not see a new studio until October/November… Or they could choose to skip another generation and we might not see it until 2026… Only Apple knows.
But the new Mini is available today, you are using it today, it’s blasting through your work today.
I wouldn’t worry at all about the cooling, there are still people getting by just fine on Intel Mini’s that run way hotter.

exactly

 

[Populus]

If I did return the mini I would go with the base M4 Max Studio, not the Ultra. The Ultra would be way overkill for what I need.

The mini so far has been powering through everything I throw at it and I've been really happy with it so far.

I was mostly just comparing prices after the fact realizing that with the 48gb ram upgrade I bought, I could've got a Studio instead with better cooling and bonus GPU cores. Damn Apple and their weird pricing ladder lol.

I guess there's also no guarantee that the base M4 Max Studio will remain the same price as the M2 Max either. With my luck, I'll wait for it and it's $300 more expensive because of tariffs or something else and my price comparison goes out the window haha.

Yeah, if I were you I'd wait for the M4 Max Studio.
For my usage, I think the M4 Pro with "just" 24GB could be enough. However, it's really a pity they don't offer a 32GB or 36GB RAM upgrade for the M4 Pro Mac mini, I'd have gotten that one.

I'm not getting a Mac Studio by any chance, for the size, weight (I've been years waiting for the Mac mini to be more portable), and for the price. And I don't need so much power. But I really miss a bit more of RAM than my 24GB, which seems fine for now but not sure in the future.

 

[OkC-Imagination-8580]

Yeah, if I were you I'd wait for the M4 Max Studio.
For my usage, I think the M4 Pro with "just" 24GB could be enough. However, it's really a pity they don't offer a 32GB or 36GB RAM upgrade for the M4 Pro Mac mini, I'd have gotten that one.

I'm not getting a Mac Studio by any chance, for the size, weight (I've been years waiting for the Mac mini to be more portable), and for the price. And I don't need so much power. But I really miss a bit more of RAM than my 24GB, which seems fine for now but not sure in the future.

agreed!

 

[TheRealAlex]

M4 Pro is crazy fast and so small 12 Cores, seriously.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I personally would wait for Studio, may be Apple will launch M5 with Studio, instead of M4 studio.

 

[Juicy Box]

I bought a M2 Pro MM when it launched, and if I would have known that the M2 Studio would have been released only a few months later, I would have waited.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

I personally would wait for Studio, may be Apple will launch M5 with Studio, instead of M4 studio.

I don’t know why anyone is assuming this, it’s a bad assumption to make.
just look at all of the previous Apple Silicon chips, the ultra comes last every single time and this will not change, and it was the same with Intel as well.
If Apple *does* decide to wait until the M5 series before updating the studio, best believe that we will see M5 iPads and MacBooks long, long before the studio.
Just look at these timelines…
First M1 machines: November 2020
M1Ultra Studio: march 2022, 17 months later.

First M2 Mac’Books: June 2022
M2Ultra Studio: June 2023, an entire year later.

 

[TechnoMonk]

I don’t know why anyone is assuming this, it’s a bad assumption to make.
just look at all of the previous Apple Silicon chips, the ultra comes last every single time and this will not change, and it was the same with Intel as well.
If Apple *does* decide to wait until the M5 series before updating the studio, best believe that we will see M5 iPads and MacBooks long, long before the studio.
Just look at these timelines…
First M1 machines: November 2020
M1Ultra Studio: march 2022, 17 months later.

First M2 Mac’Books: June 2022
M2Ultra Studio: June 2023, an entire year later.

Not really, Apple has launched M3 Max and M3 Pro before the regular M3. There is no rhyme or rythm for AS releases in last 3 years.

 

[Bungaree.Chubbins]

Just a note about the temperatures. That seems to be just how Apple sets the fan speeds, they set a high threshold for starting fans, and then run the fan speed such that temps often hover around 100ºC. I don't like that, and as I use iStat Menus 7, I set a custom fan curve. Now, my fans kick in at 60ºC, and under full load for extended periods will sit around 74º-85ºC (depending on types of load and ambient temps), without the need to kick up to full speed. If I didn't mind the noise, I could drop those temps another 5º by setting my fan curve more aggressively, but this way the fan noise isn't intrusive.

 

[MikePx96]

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm going to keep the Mac mini since so far it seems to be doing everything I need it too. I feel better about the high CPU/GPU after reading the explanations of how Apple Silicon chips work. I'm testing out TG Pro to adjust the fans to turn on earlier and it seems to be helping. When the M4 Max Studio comes out and I can decide if it's worth selling or trading in the mini.

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Not really, Apple has launched M3 Max and M3 Pro before the regular M3. There is no rhyme or rythm for AS releases in last 3 years.

Completely incorrect.
Apple has launched all three chips at the same time, but never the Pro and Max before the regular, just alongside it.

 

[smithrh]

iStat Menus is your friend. Highly recommended for all sorts of reasons, but keeping tabs on temps and fan speed is way up there.