Ignorance is bliss. I shop for the best device for my needs, I'm not a brand loyalist.
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Bought Surface Book to wait out refresh.
- Thread starter Mathias Denichi
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Rafterman
macrumors 604
The tablet end was the weak link - it says three hours battery life in the specs, but I only saw 1.5 or so. I know they call the tablet part a "clipboard", not meant for long usage, but I would have hoped for more. But with the base, its a realistic 10-12.
zhenya
macrumors 604
I'm speaking from long experience here. I own a Surface Pro 3 (my second Surface Pro device). I've owned multiple top of the line Thinkpads and Dells, and continue to deploy them to users - T450s, T460s, P50/70, XPS 13/15/Precision M5510, etc.
We buy the tools we need. These devices have plenty of things they do well. Reliably long battery life, and a smooth UI are not those things.
Not to mention the longevity issues of batteries on Windows devices. We see very few Windows devices that make it past a few hundred cycles without losing a great deal of their capacity. Apple manages battery life much better than PC OEM's. Microsoft most certainly included.
soulreaver99
macrumors 68040
Well... yeah the Surface Book is lag free and nowadays, has superior battery life compared to the new MacBook Pros. Have you had any experience with the SB? Or are you just making a blanket statement?
zhenya
macrumors 604
Windows isn't lag free on any device. Scrolling they've gotten pretty decent, if you have the right device, and are using the right program that has been optimized for it. But system wide, it's still average, at best. Go ahead and trigger the expose-like window switching gesture and see how that looks.
I've begun realizing over the past couple of years that the reality distortion field has apparently taken up new residence in Redmond.
skids929
macrumors 6502a
Later bro!! You should have got the Lenovo Yoga, the Surface book stinks. Either way, they are all Windows based and every time I use our Yoga 900 I appreciate the hardware, but can't EFFING wait to get back to Mac OS. Gawd I hate Windows menus.
agreed. it makes for an awful tablet.
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I played around a lot with the Yoga 910. If I was in the market for a windows laptop, this would be it.
skids929
macrumors 6502a
It is pretty slick, once you get rid of the all the bloatware Windows 10 is somewhat tolerable. But the overall experience on that laptop is actually pretty nice.
So you don't think size has anything to do with weight. Forgive me but that isn't exactly smart thinking and I'm being very generous, to say the least.
Weight is clearly a focus for Apple, now and going forward.
I didn't say I'm leaving apple for good. In fact I still have a 5k imac, iPad Pro, Apple Watch and iPhone 7Plus. I'm using the surface book because I found it for $1000 with GPU as a laptop until the Macbook Pros get a bug fix and a refresh. Priced competitively the non touchbar MBP has around the same battery life and processing power of the surface book model I purchased, but for about $699 more.
I'm just biding time until I can get 32GB ram, around 8-10 hours of battery life a for around the same price people are currently paying for the upgraded early adopter series.
The battery life greatly increased from the 2015 rMB to the 2016 rMB by 2-3 hours. So I have faith it won't be too far off.
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kevinkyoo
macrumors 6502a
No, I'm saying that for something to be mobile, you have to factor in all three: weight, volume, and battery life. We've reached a point with last year's models such that weight and volume are in a comfortable area, and where battery life can be improved by battery technology and more efficient CPU's.
Maybe ask next time for clarifications before making non-smart assumptions
I don't know what you're doing with your SP4, but I have one and get much better battery life than you. I bought it last year, and it's become my favorite portable computer. I have a mid-2009 MBP that I planned on replacing with a newer MBP, but I wasn't happy with what Apple had to offer so I eventually opted for the SP4. My SP4 doesn't lag, gets very good battery life, has a great screen and is really light to carry around. Besides the typical usage, I use mine for editing photos in Lightroom and controlling a ham radio transceiver. (I don't use it for gaming. I built a desktop for that.) Plus, the touchscreen is great for handwritten notes. My MBP still works (I replaced the battery and installed an SSD), but it's relegated to web browsing and running Logic Pro X while connected to a 27-inch monitor. Frankly, the only reason I've kept the MBP is to run Logic.
What's keeping me in OSX is Xcode and iMessenger. If I eventually can text from my windows device using my iPhone, I will most likely move on. I feel apple is investing more time into making IOS their main jam than focusing on Mac OS. I wouldn't be surprised to see an Xcode for the iPad Pro 2 soon.
Excuse me! You said, and I'll quote again, "No, Apple wants these to be more thin, not mobile". I didn't make an assumption, I quoted your idiotic assertion. I suggest you think it through a bit next time, save you looking foolish!
kevinkyoo
macrumors 6502a
3. No, Apple wants these to be more thin, not mobile. They used to go hand in hand. Now, Apple is creating thin devices for the sake of them being thin. Last year's models were great because they were easy enough to carry with great battery life. Sacrificing as much battery life for a small change in weight and volume does not make it more mobile.
I pasted the entire quote. I talk about the balance of weight, volume, and battery life.
I can honestly say this is the first windows laptop that I've used that is 100% on par with the mbp trackpad. I never use a mouse, even with my 5k iMac, i use the magic trackpad 2. Switching between that, the mbp and my surface book is seamless.
Queen6
macrumors G5
Another here; moved my 13" notebook class from 13" rMBP to a Surface Book. Very similar experience with the Surface Book delivering extremely solid performance; battery runtime is phenomenal, being very much an all day on the go computing solution. Performance has also been equally impressive, so much so that I am considering a 2nd Surface Book with Performance Base to replace my ageing 15" rMBP.
Surface Book`s build quality is easily as good as all my Retina Mac`s in some instances exceeding. Been using Mac`s professionally for a longtime, however the 2016 MBP brings little to nothing to the table for my productivity needs, if anything it now works against them. Inversely I am finding the Surface Book offers so much more flexibility from it`s 2 in 1 format to the software side, with absolutely no bloatware installed.
Is it perfect? No Windows 10 requires a little more user intervention, coupled with a higher knowledge of the OS. UI is obviously inconsistent, equally moving in a good direction. Trackpad is easily 95% of a MBP, for the most part it just gets out the way and lets you get on with the business at hand (no pun intended). Personally I am finding the Surface Book to be exactly what I have always wanted Apple to produce; a powerful 2 in 1 with Touch & Pen input with all day portability.
As my computers are a significant component of my professional output they must be relevant and provide an edge in complex engineering environments, with the MBP being the "de facto" solution since it`s inception. Surface Book is not for all, same as the MBP nor is it intended to be, equally it might just be the "game changer" that some of us have sought for years...
Q-6
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Just a note on the Yoga 910; no Pen support for those considering one. If Lenovo redesigned the 900 Yoga with a 3:2 aspect ratio display & Pen support it would be a much better portable, equally that may result in trespassing on the X1 Carbon Yoga`s territory. Other than that the Yoga 910 offers tremendous value.
Q-6
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WhiteWhaleHolyGrail
macrumors 6502a
Shall we be brutally honest here? The SB is decent in its own right but compared to MBP, it doesn't even come close in build, performance and user experience (due to Windows still being as intuitive as a chocolate teapot). You'll probably use the pen a few times before you realise it's pointless whilst the designers out there use dedicated drawing pads.
As for these hilariously far fetched expectations concerning RAM - please someone enlighten me as to how anyone needs 32gb.
As for these hilariously far fetched expectations concerning RAM - please someone enlighten me as to how anyone needs 32gb.
KarmaRocket
macrumors 6502
Seems like there are a lot of people here who have strong opinions on the Surface Book. I'm wondering if they have ever owned one or used one for an extended period? Most designers I know love the Surface Book and the pen. A lot of them ditched their Wacom's and just use the Surface Book. I had no issues with the build quality testing their Surface Book. I was surprised it was actually a Microsoft product. If some people in this forum are going to complain how some "haters" complain and whine about the new MBP without owning one or using one for more than a few minutes in the Apple Store, then you have to say the same thing about other non Apple products as well. Make a fair judgement based on solid evidence and actually using the product.
While Windows 10 has its quirks and isn't perfect, you can say the same thing about OS X. I still give the user experience edge to OS X, but Windows 10 is pretty damn good and get's the job done. I use it every day and don't run into any issues that force me to switch back to OS X. The only reason why I would is due to a specific application that only runs on it ( ie FCPX and XCode).
RAM is very subjective and depends on use cases. To say no one ever needs 32GB of RAM is not really forward thinking. RAM use has always increased over the years. As well as CPU and hard drive storage. Computers get faster and more powerful to run more demanding applications. 10 years ago you could say no one ever needed 8GB of RAM but look at where we are now? It seems a lot of people on this forum keep their machines for more than 3-5 years. I don't really blame them for wanting to get 32GB of RAM so they can keep their maxed out machine for as long as possible. Especially since, Apple doesn't allow user upgrades anymore. If you want to upgrade you need to purchase a whole new computer. Great for Apple, but not very economically viable for most users.
I'm not calling out anyone in particular. This is just a generalization. I'm still interested in the new MBP. I may get one eventually, but I can't help notice that there are also other viable options available.
While Windows 10 has its quirks and isn't perfect, you can say the same thing about OS X. I still give the user experience edge to OS X, but Windows 10 is pretty damn good and get's the job done. I use it every day and don't run into any issues that force me to switch back to OS X. The only reason why I would is due to a specific application that only runs on it ( ie FCPX and XCode).
RAM is very subjective and depends on use cases. To say no one ever needs 32GB of RAM is not really forward thinking. RAM use has always increased over the years. As well as CPU and hard drive storage. Computers get faster and more powerful to run more demanding applications. 10 years ago you could say no one ever needed 8GB of RAM but look at where we are now? It seems a lot of people on this forum keep their machines for more than 3-5 years. I don't really blame them for wanting to get 32GB of RAM so they can keep their maxed out machine for as long as possible. Especially since, Apple doesn't allow user upgrades anymore. If you want to upgrade you need to purchase a whole new computer. Great for Apple, but not very economically viable for most users.
I'm not calling out anyone in particular. This is just a generalization. I'm still interested in the new MBP. I may get one eventually, but I can't help notice that there are also other viable options available.
Rafterman
macrumors 604
Not true for the SB - almost the entire keyboard base is battery, plus the battery in the screen half.
Lol. Who needs 32GB ram?
I am a software engineer. I am on a 2016 15" maxed out macbook pro. Right now I have Safari with 10 tabs open, running XCode, Windows 10 in Parallels with Visual Studio open.
The memory pressure monitor is already in the red and I have used about 5GB of swap files.
And I don't consider having 10 safari tabs, xcode and visual studio to be "taxing" the system. It's just a normal day for any software dev.
If you are just writing word documents sitting at starbucks then no you don't need 32gb. In fact you don't even need a 15" MBP Pro. You could just as well have used entry level Macbook Air.
Btw, Windows 10 is way way more intuitive than macOS. It's not going to be intuitive to you if you haven't used it for the past several years. In fact Windows 10 would still not be intuitive to you even if it was the most intuitive operating system in the world with just one app. Why? Because you are not using it. So stop comparing it's intuitiveness to your own opinion.
WhiteWhaleHolyGrail
macrumors 6502a
I'll compare my experiences as much as I like and back it up with opinions here and elsewhere, thank you. Calm down.
You do realise OS is greedy and will hog your RAM no matter how much you have meaning you'll get false readings of your RAM.
I am talking about memory pressure monitor which measures exactly how much memory is being swapped and if it's enough or not.
I know full well that OS will take up as much memory as possible, but that's not what memory pressure monitor measures.
But thanks for showing your lack of knowledge about RAM.
WhiteWhaleHolyGrail
macrumors 6502a
Wow. Sensitive aren't you.
As I said - most don't need 32gb of RAM. Dell awaits you though so fear not.
Don't let the memory swaps give you nightmares.