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Brain says Pro, Heart says Air

brain vs heart, from my experiences, heart always win.

let's say you buy the pro, all games go smooth, performance is amazing, everything seems perfect, but one thing is broken, it is your heart. you will feel the pro is not enough because u really wanted the air in the first time.

i bet in a month you will sell the pro and get the air. that means more cost.

so remember this:

1. those who follow their heart will win even with the compromises they made.
2. not even a hexa-core processor will make a geeks happy if their heart is broken.
3. i have a 2011" 13" air with 4gb of ram. half life 2 which i believe based on the source engine runs really smooth on my machine.
 
aleni said:
brain vs heart, from my experiences, heart always win.

let's say you buy the pro, all games go smooth, performance is amazing, everything seems perfect, but one thing is broken, it is your heart. you will feel the pro is not enough because u really wanted the air in the first time.

i bet in a month you will sell the pro and get the air. that means more cost.

so remember this:

1. those who follow their heart will win even with the compromises they made.
2. not even a hexa-core processor will make a geeks happy if their heart is broken.
3. i have a 2011" 13" air with 4gb of ram. half life 2 which i believe based on the source engine runs really smooth on my machine.
Click to expand...

Thank you. I completely agree with you. Even if everything went well with the Pro I'd still wonder if everything could have went just as well with the Air. So, Air first, and if there are problems it simply gets exchanged for a Pro.
 
pexxoum said:
So processor speed is multiplied for each core? Are you sure that's how it works?
Click to expand...
Not exactly multiplied, but basically the multiple cores allow the processor to handle multiple processes simultaneously, which nets out to a faster overall clock speed than older processors that only had one core and could only handle one thread at a time.

However, some applications do not have the ability to separate their processes into multiple threads. That's where Turbo Boost (and similar technologies) comes into play. If a multi-core processor is fed a single threaded process, some of the processor's capacity is naturally left idle. In those situations under heavy load, the CPU will allocate more processing power to the single thread. That's how the 1.8GHz dual-core i5 in the Air can hit 2.8GHz.

But even if you're using a program or playing a game that doesn't support multiple threads, one core in a modern multi-core processor is still faster than an older single-core processor rated at a higher clock speed. The modern processors are simply more efficient. See the link below at page 11 for an example.

Here's a great example. You're concerned about games from six years ago. In 2005, Intel released the absurd single-core Pentium 4 running at 3.8GHz (it had something of a virtual multi-core setup called Hyper-threading, but in most applications just acted like a single-core processor). A little more modern would be the 2.4GHz Core 2 quad from 2007 (an early quad-core). Both of these processors were embarrassed in gaming tests by even the lowliest of the Core i-Series processors. A dual-core Ivy Bridge i5 should have absolutely no problem with the games you're considering. And as this test recognized, the GPU makes a much more significant difference, and the MBP offers no advantage in that area. This test I'm referencing makes for fascinating reading if you're interested in the evolution of computing power:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/18448/1


Also, get the 8GB. It's 8.3% of the purchase price of the computer.
 
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marvin4653 said:
Not exactly multiplied, but basically the multiple cores allow the processor to handle multiple processes simultaneously, which nets out to a faster overall clock speed than older processors that only had one core and could only handle one thread at a time.

However, some applications do not have the ability to separate their processes into multiple threads. That's where Turbo Boost (and similar technologies) comes into play. If a multi-core processor is fed a single threaded process, some of the processor's capacity is naturally left idle. In those situations under heavy load, the CPU will allocate more processing power to the single thread. That's how the 1.8GHz dual-core i5 in the Air can hit 2.8GHz.

But even if you're using a program or playing a game that doesn't support multiple threads, one core in a modern multi-core processor is still faster than an older single-core processor rated at a higher clock speed. The modern processors are simply more efficient. See the link below at page 11 for an example.

Here's a great example. You're concerned about games from six years ago. In 2005, Intel released the absurd single-core Pentium 4 running at 3.8GHz (it had something of a virtual multi-core setup called Hyper-threading, but in most applications just acted like a single-core processor). A little more modern would be the 2.4GHz Core 2 quad from 2007 (an early quad-core). Both of these processors were embarrassed in gaming tests by even the lowliest of the Core i-Series processors. A dual-core Ivy Bridge i5 should have absolutely no problem with the games you're considering. And as this test recognized, the GPU makes a much more significant difference, and the MBP offers no advantage in that area. This test I'm referencing makes for fascinating reading if you're interested in the evolution of computing power:

http://techreport.com/articles.x/18448/1


Also, get the 8GB. It's 8.3% of the purchase price of the computer.
Click to expand...

Thank you for the detailed explanation. I believe I understand it much better now. I'll give that article a read.

I would go for the 8GB if it was something that didn't need to be ordered custom. I'm hoping to purchase at Best Buy, get the $150 gift card, and $50 off from Apple's student discount.

Would you reccomend Best Buy Black Tie or AppleCare?
 
2011 MacBook Air playing Counter Strike GO

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9-gBZ-9MLc

Play from about 3.40, and remember this is the old graphics and not the new more powerful one in the new 2012 Air.

Between the 13" Air and Pro, currently I would ALWAYS go with the Air. I would also get 8GB of Ram as I believe you cannot change this yourself, and think about the i7 CPU upgrade too, although not essential but it turbo boosts higher to 3.2.
In fact, personally, now I would only get an Air or the Retina MacBook Pro machines, they have the best screens for one but also powerful and portable.

And if your buying from Best Buy, ask them about the 8GB machine cause I more then bet they can order one for you?
 
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If it helps - I can have any non-Apple laptop at work and I would rather work on my Air. I also happen to have a 13" MBP on my desk and would still rather use my personal Air... Screen res on the 13" is :(
 
pexxoum said:
So processor speed is multiplied for each core? Are you sure that's how it works?
Click to expand...

The speed quoted on the newer processors is the speed of each core when they are both being used by the same time - so a 1.8Ghz dual-core can run at up to 1.8Ghz while both cores are being used (processor-intensive apps, apps that are written with support for utilizing more than one core)

Many apps don't need to use more than one core at once, or aren't designed to, so they only run on one core. This is when the Turbo comes in - if the computer isn't under load (i.e. making full use of those two cores) it will automatically boost the speed of one core.

And as was previously mentioned on this thread, processors nowadays do alot more work per-cycle, so a 1.8Ghz of today will do alot more than a 2.3Ghz of yesteryear.
 
I purchased the Air from Best Buy today. $50 off from Apple's education discount, plus a $150 Best Buy gift card. The salesman I spoke to was extremely knowledgeable and told me that 4GB of RAM should be plenty for what I plan to do, and would easily withstand a year of updates.

I've downloaded Steam and I am currently installing Counter Strike Source. The Activity Manager shows 1.77GB of the 4GB being currently used, while the install is going on and I have Safari open. Is this an abnormal amount, or does it simply include a large amount of RAM that is running OSX? I dislike the fact that closing windows does not also kill them completely, and that they must be killed in Activity Manager. Is there any way to configure the system to kill all programs instantly when they are closed?

Once again, thanks for all the help you've all provided.
 
brentsg said:
You don't need to be killing apps. OSX manages memory well.
Click to expand...

I'd rather everything I open not fill up the RAM, especially if it's not going to be in use for a while.
 
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pexxoum said:
I purchased the Air from Best Buy today. $50 off from Apple's education discount, plus a $150 Best Buy gift card. The salesman I spoke to was extremely knowledgeable and told me that 4GB of RAM should be plenty for what I plan to do, and would easily withstand a year of updates.

I've downloaded Steam and I am currently installing Counter Strike Source. The Activity Manager shows 1.77GB of the 4GB being currently used, while the install is going on and I have Safari open. Is this an abnormal amount, or does it simply include a large amount of RAM that is running OSX? I dislike the fact that closing windows does not also kill them completely, and that they must be killed in Activity Manager. Is there any way to configure the system to kill all programs instantly when they are closed?

Once again, thanks for all the help you've all provided.
Click to expand...

OSX usually alway's uses the RAM you have, as in the more you get the better. For instance with my 2010 MB Pro, I used to get beach balls just scrolling though web pages, this stopped as soon as I upgraded from 4GB to 8GB.
But the Air has an SSD drive so it's a bit hard to tell as it will perform differently if it uses Page files.
Currently on my machine with Outlook and Chrome open with several tabs I'm using 4.37GB of RAM.

All I can say is use it to see how it goes. What model did you get? i5, i7, 13"?
 
apolloa said:
OSX usually alway's uses the RAM you have, as in the more you get the better. For instance with my 2010 MB Pro, I used to get beach balls just scrolling though web pages, this stopped as soon as I upgraded from 4GB to 8GB.
But the Air has an SSD drive so it's a bit hard to tell as it will perform differently if it uses Page files.
Currently on my machine with Outlook and Chrome open with several tabs I'm using 4.37GB of RAM.

All I can say is use it to see how it goes. What model did you get? i5, i7, 13"?
Click to expand...

i5 13". I imagine the SSD will allow me to get away with 4GB of RAM, at least with web-browsing.
 
pexxoum said:
I purchased the Air from Best Buy today. $50 off from Apple's education discount, plus a $150 Best Buy gift card. The salesman I spoke to was extremely knowledgeable and told me that 4GB of RAM should be plenty for what I plan to do, and would easily withstand a year of updates.

I've downloaded Steam and I am currently installing Counter Strike Source. The Activity Manager shows 1.77GB of the 4GB being currently used, while the install is going on and I have Safari open. Is this an abnormal amount, or does it simply include a large amount of RAM that is running OSX? I dislike the fact that closing windows does not also kill them completely, and that they must be killed in Activity Manager. Is there any way to configure the system to kill all programs instantly when they are closed?

Once again, thanks for all the help you've all provided.
Click to expand...
There's only one statistic in Activity Monitor you really need to worry about: Page outs. That figure will tell you the amount of data that the OS had to write to the hard drive (SSD) instead of to RAM because the system ran out of free memory (virtual memory in Windows parlance). If that figure is zero, you haven't yet run into a situation where you didn't have enough free memory to perform whatever task you were doing. See this Apple support page:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1342
 
marvin4653 said:
There's only one statistic in Activity Monitor you really need to worry about: Page outs. That figure will tell you the amount of data that the OS had to write to the hard drive (SSD) instead of to RAM because the system ran out of free memory (virtual memory in Windows parlance). If that figure is zero, you haven't yet run into a situation where you didn't have enough free memory to perform whatever task you were doing. See this Apple support page:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1342
Click to expand...

I actually did have SDD being used at different points while downloading Counter Strike. Roughly 3.5GB was used and it began using SSD, but a lot of that used RAM was inactive. I'm really at a loss as to why this happened
 
pexxoum said:
I actually did have SDD being used at different points while downloading Counter Strike. Roughly 3.5GB was used and it began using SSD, but a lot of that used RAM was inactive. I'm really at a loss as to why this happened
Click to expand...
Really? You got Page outs just from downloading CS? I'm pretty shocked. I've got a late 2010 13" Air with 4GB of RAM, and just for kicks I tried to get it to run out of RAM. I've got five tabs open in Chrome, Photoshop CS5 running a sharpening action, Word 2011 open with a 22 page document, Excel open with a three-tabbed spreadsheet, iTunes in another space playing a track, Preview in another space showing a PDF along with two OmniOutliner windows, and the penultimate episode of Mad Men Season 5 playing in another space in 720p in VLC. I couldn't get a Page out.
 
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marvin4653 said:
Really? You got Page outs just from downloading CS? I'm pretty shocked. I've got a late 2010 13" Air with 4GB of RAM, and just for kicks I tried to get it to run out of RAM. I've got five tabs open in Chrome, Photoshop CS5 running a sharpening action, Word 2011 open with a 22 page document, Excel open with a three-tabbed spreadsheet, iTunes in another space playing a track, Preview in another space showing a PDF along with two OmniOutliner windows, and the penultimate episode of Mad Men Season 5 playing in another space in 720p in VLC. I couldn't get a Page out.
Click to expand...

I don't think it needed to page out, I think it was some sort of error. 90% of the RAM being used was inactive.
 
aleni said:
brain vs heart, from my experiences, heart always win.

let's say you buy the pro, all games go smooth, performance is amazing, everything seems perfect, but one thing is broken, it is your heart. you will feel the pro is not enough because u really wanted the air in the first time.

i bet in a month you will sell the pro and get the air. that means more cost.

so remember this:

1. those who follow their heart will win even with the compromises they made.
2. not even a hexa-core processor will make a geeks happy if their heart is broken.
3. i have a 2011" 13" air with 4gb of ram. half life 2 which i believe based on the source engine runs really smooth on my machine.
Click to expand...

It's just a computer....brain, heart broken? Huh lol what is this talk
 
OP, are you me? I was just about to make a post like this, except the possible gaming I might be doing is Diablo 3 and very possibly the Skyrim MMO when it's out. I think I'm gonna end up getting a 13" Air with 8GM of ram. I'm still using a 2007 white core 2 duo Macbook with 1GB of ram, so anything I get will be a huge improvement, haha. :cool:
 
forestsprite said:
OP, are you me? I was just about to make a post like this, except the possible gaming I might be doing is Diablo 3 and very possibly the Skyrim MMO when it's out. I think I'm gonna end up getting a 13" Air with 8GM of ram. I'm still using a 2007 white core 2 duo Macbook with 1GB of ram, so anything I get will be a huge improvement, haha. :cool:
Click to expand...

You'll sleep much better with the 8GB. I just couldn't turn down the $150 best buy card on top of $50 off.
 
Unless you go with the Retina MBP....get the air.

The retina MBP is surprisingly light and its why I upgraded from an air to an rMBP.
 
RMBP!

If you want to run Diablo 3 and actually enjoy the game... better get dedicated GPU.

Other than that, MacBook Air all the way.

Using it for my graduate studies and it is so easy to carry and battery lasts forever.

But I am picking up a base model RMBP for gaming and iMovie etc.
 
The 2.2 ghz processor recommended by CS:source probably refers to Petium 4 processor, your air processor is maybe 10 times more powerful than that. The pro processor is only very slightly faster than the air because of the turbo boost, check geekbench scores, personally, I don't find a single reason to go with the 13 pro instead of air apart from the upgradability, which is not much a point now since 13 air has the 8g ram option. For the HD space, even if it comes with 500g hd, i will likely to buy a 128g SSD from a third party to replace the 500g HD, so to me the HD is also a disadvantage from 13 pro.
 
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