Apple rather keep the price the same and let customers who want a charger easily add one at checkout rather than raise prices (which they would very likely do to cover the added cost) and unnecessarily and wastefully include items many don't want/need.
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Brazil Fines Apple $19 Million for Continuing to Sell iPhones Without Charger
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Apple rather keep the price the same and let customers who want a charger easily add one at checkout rather than raise prices (which they would very likely do to cover the added cost) and unnecessarily and wastefully include items many don't want/need.
It's not about whether you can afford or not.
It's all about if not selling with a charger is an abusive practice or not.
If it is, and the LOCAL law has been violated, Apple will either have to comply or not sell anything.
I can also afford buying a remote control for my air conditioner, or a power cord for my TV, but when I buy both, if they don't come inside the box, then we have a problem. You can't sell any product "unsuitable for the intended use" in here.
These shenanigans are not going to fly.
I hope Apple loses all possible appeals. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Also, the government has instructed that Samsung should be sued, too:
Governo orienta Procons a processarem Apple e Samsung por venda de celulares sem carregadores
Secretaria Nacional do Consumidor recomendou que as mais de 900 unidades dos órgãos de defesa do consumidor no Brasil iniciem procedimentos contra as duas fabricantes.
g1.globo.com
This article says back in January both Apple/Samsung were fined in one of brazilian states:
Procon Fortaleza multa Apple e Samsung em R$ 25,9 milhões por venda de celular sem carregador
A Samsung informou que os clientes podem solicitar o adaptador dos produtos de forma gratuita por meio do site da empresa no prazo de 30 dias a partir da data da emissão da nota fiscal; a Apple ainda não se pronunciou.
g1.globo.com
The problem is, with all their power $$$$$$$$ they will appeal this to the death.
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Can anyone actually provide a source that states the law is the a mobile phone actually has to come with a charger in the box? The best references I can find is to "complete product" or "include critical component". Beyond that the ruling that the iPhone as currently packaged is "not a complete product."
Apple's appeal is that the phone is complete and that the charger block is an accessory. There is no need to use a first party charger. you can charge from PC, Mac, iPad, any block (OEM or 3rd-party; already owned or cam with another product), car, wall plates, etc.
Including a cord in the box is not really necessary anyway but is helpful in case someone needs this often replaced component. And it provide support for charge / data for all current Mac and most iPads as a source. You can also use the block that came with your Mac or iPad.
edit:
Apparently Samsung has also been tagged with this so apparently not targeted specifically to Apple. But the rest of my post still holds.
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So when batteries arent included I wanted to confirm that a product is being sold and is an abusive practice.It's not about whether you can afford or not.
It's all about if not selling with a charger is an abusive practice or not.
If it is, and the LOCAL law has been violated, Apple will either have to comply or not sell anything.
I can also afford buying a remote control for my air conditioner, or a power cord for my TV, but when I buy both, if they don't come inside the box, then we have a problem. You can't sell any product "unsuitable for the intended use" in here.
These shenanigans are not going to fly.
I hope Apple loses all possible appeals. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Also, the government has instructed that Samsung should be sued, too:
Governo orienta Procons a processarem Apple e Samsung por venda de celulares sem carregadores
Secretaria Nacional do Consumidor recomendou que as mais de 900 unidades dos órgãos de defesa do consumidor no Brasil iniciem procedimentos contra as duas fabricantes.
This article says back in January both Apple/Samsung were fined in one of brazilian states:
Procon Fortaleza multa Apple e Samsung em R$ 25,9 milhões por venda de celular sem carregador
A Samsung informou que os clientes podem solicitar o adaptador dos produtos de forma gratuita por meio do site da empresa no prazo de 30 dias a partir da data da emissão da nota fiscal; a Apple ainda não se pronunciou.
The problem is, with all their power $$$$$$$$ they will appeal this to the death.
This comment is a bit of a straw man that is nothing like a phone. A TV (or desktop computer, or any other device that only works with mains power (e.g., no battery)) MUST come with a power cord. You still need to provide the power (wall outlet and electrical service). But that is beside the point.
There is no way that you can use the TV without a means to connect it to the wall outlet.
Apple is including the cord to the wall just like the TV. Apple just states that you have to provide the "wall outlet".
edit: typos
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But there are reports of other companies. According to articles below (and others), Samsung is also a target. It's not just Apple. I would assume any phone maker that sells products in Brazil would at least eventually be a target if they don't include chargers with their devices.
Samsung Faces Legal Action For Not Including Chargers With Phones
Samsung is facing legal action for removing chargers from its smartphone retail boxes. The decision may attract hefty fines.
www.androidheadlines.com
Apple, Samsung face more fines for not shipping a power adapter with their pricey flagship phones
Both Apple and Samsung have been fined in Brazil for not including power adapters in the box with their flagship phones; both face many more fines in the country.
www.phonearena.com
Apple, Samsung fined in Brazil for not shipping power adapters with new smartphones - BusinessToday
Both the brands decided to follow this to reduce its carbon footprint, but some people are not pleased.
I did not see those until after I posted my comment. I should edit my post.But there are reports of other companies. According to articles below (and others), Samsung is also a target. It's not just Apple. I would assume any phone maker that sells products in Brazil would at least eventually be a target if they don't include chargers with their devices.
Samsung Faces Legal Action For Not Including Chargers With Phones
Samsung is facing legal action for removing chargers from its smartphone retail boxes. The decision may attract hefty fines.
Apple, Samsung face more fines for not shipping a power adapter with their pricey flagship phones
Both Apple and Samsung have been fined in Brazil for not including power adapters in the box with their flagship phones; both face many more fines in the country.
Apple, Samsung fined in Brazil for not shipping power adapters with new smartphones - BusinessToday
Both the brands decided to follow this to reduce its carbon footprint, but some people are not pleased.www.businesstoday.in
The rest of my comment still holds.
I think some could view it as a wealth/privilege "problem." A wealthy company is more easily able to afford paying fines and/or is more easily able to afford a court/legal battle. Therefore, depending on the circumstances, a wealthy company can potentially get away with delaying or avoiding compliance with a law they may not happen to liike or agree with more easily than a less wealthy company.
Having said that, I am still largely on Apple's side in this particular situation. I don’t think Apple or any other company should be required to include a charger because A) many people already have one and B) they are easy and inexpensive to buy. Including something that many at this point don't need is a waste.
Who else other than large multinational tech companies have the ability to deliver products at scale? Seems like the Brazil not only wants to benefit from this tech but to control it as well. They want their cake and eat it too. Forget the environment; free chargers for all.
And c)Chargers are ubiquitous.
Yes, that's the point. If you sell something that has to work in a larger system you have to draw a line somewhere about what is bundled. Otherwise it's ridiculous.
Personally I think almost everything should be available individually and retailers should just make it very clear to consumers how to know what parts they need. Then people can mix and match parts till they have a system they are happy with.
Any company that wants to bypass local laws isn't going to thrive anywhere.
FACT.
Look at what happens with Google in China, or what used to in Russia. They either comply or are shut down.
It doesn't matter if said laws are considered unfair by 99.9% of people that live in the country or foreigners...
Believe it or not, the brazilian Consumer Code is fair - on the other hand, the judicial system is a complete joke.
That's not a valid argument, because it assumes you are a past user of said product, and owns a previous charger that is compatible with that iPhone. Neither are the case for most purchases.
What if this is your first Apple device? Or if the previous charger is not suitable for the intended smartphone?
That would mean you are at a disadvantage compared to other buyers.
This is also illegal as much as charging more for the same product if you are from a certain skin color... In both cases you are breaking the law. I can quote you which one is it, and it's not in the Consumer Code: you can find here.
The link says:
********************
It defines crimes against tax, economic and consumer relations, and provides other provisions.
Art. 7th - It constitutes a crime against "consumer relations":
I - to favor or prefer, without just cause, the buyer or customers, except for delivery systems for consumption through distributors or resellers;
Penalty - detention, from 2 (two) to 5 (five) years, or a fine.
********************
It doesn't matter if it costs 1 dollar, you can't sell any product without an essential part of it (note the word ESSENTIAL) for it to continue working.
Someone said the customer can provide the wall outlet and the energy for the charger to be plugged in. But what Apple is doing is simply removing the charger and still forcing us to buy it, with fake arguments about saving the planet, while we are still forced to get what we need from them, anyway.
If they asked for more $$$$$ and included that charger, there would be no lawsuit. Recent reports from Brazil said some stores were fined for the same reason: not selling the PHONES with it. It's not just Apple.
Por vender iPhone sem carregador, lojas de MG são multadas pelo Procon • Tecnoblog
Procon de Uberaba penaliza lojas que vendem iPhone sem carregador na caixa; especialistas explicam a decisão do órgão de defesa do consumidor
tecnoblog.net
One of the things Apple loves to say is that you should never buy any other charger if it's not one of the * official * ones they sell. We even had Amazon being sued for selling lots of APPLE counterfeits! It has been said over and over these "alternate" chargers may reduce the product's lifespan or be dangerous.
Anyway, if the product (the iPhone) was intended to be used continuously, and the package lacks a crucial part of it, which enables that we continue enjoying the next day, as amazing as this may appear to you, it's illegal in Brazil.
It's considered the same as buying something defective. That "Consumer Code" kinda assumes Apple or any other are scamming you. That's my point.
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Actually it’s not fake arguments since thats now the law in the EU 🤷♂️Any company that wants to bypass local laws isn't going to thrive anywhere.
FACT.
Look at what happens with Google in China, or what used to in Russia. They either comply or are shut down.
It doesn't matter if said laws are considered unfair by 99.9% of people that live in the country or foreigners...
Believe it or not, the brazilian Consumer Code is fair - on the other hand, the judicial system is a complete joke.
That's not a valid argument, because it assumes you are a past user of said product, and owns a previous charger that is compatible with that iPhone. Neither are the case for most purchases.
What if this is your first Apple device? Or if the previous charger is not suitable for the intended smartphone?
That would mean you are at a disadvantage compared to other buyers.
This is also illegal as much as charging more for the same product if you are from a certain skin color... In both cases you are breaking the law. I can quote you which one is it, and it's not in the Consumer Code: you can find here.
The link says:
********************
It defines crimes against tax, economic and consumer relations, and provides other provisions.
Art. 7th - It constitutes a crime against "consumer relations":
I - to favor or prefer, without just cause, the buyer or customers, except for delivery systems for consumption through distributors or resellers;
Penalty - detention, from 2 (two) to 5 (five) years, or a fine.
********************
It doesn't matter if it costs 1 dollar, you can't sell any product without an essential part of it (note the word ESSENTIAL) for it to continue working.
Someone said the customer can provide the wall outlet and the energy for the charger to be plugged in. But what Apple is doing is simply removing the charger and still forcing us to buy it, with fake arguments about saving the planet, while we are still forced to get what we need from them, anyway.
If they asked for more $$$$$ and included that charger, there would be no lawsuit. Recent reports from Brazil said some stores were fined for the same reason: not selling the PHONES with it. It's not just Apple.
Por vender iPhone sem carregador, lojas de MG são multadas pelo Procon • Tecnoblog
Procon de Uberaba penaliza lojas que vendem iPhone sem carregador na caixa; especialistas explicam a decisão do órgão de defesa do consumidor
One of the things Apple loves to say is that you should never buy any other charger if it's not one of the * official * ones they sell. We even had Amazon being sued for selling lots of APPLE counterfeits! It has been said over and over these "alternate" chargers may reduce the product's lifespan or be dangerous.
Anyway, if the product (the iPhone) was intended to be used continuously, and the package lacks a crucial part of it, which enables that we continue enjoying the next day, as amazing as this may appear to you, it's illegal in Brazil.
It's considered the same as buying something defective. That "Consumer Code" kinda assumes Apple or any other are scamming you. That's my point.
A charger is NOT essential any usb port can be used in fact EU law now explicitly says they have to dissociate chargers with the sale of electronics meaning the removal of chargers from boxes so you will be seeing a lot more of that
What if someone has a case that doesn't work on their new iPhone, is Apple supposed to provide "free" cases too? Apple shouldn't be expected to provide chargers, cases, screen protectors, etc. for every customer just because some may need them. Let the customer decide what they want/need rather than wastefully and unnecessarily have Apple include some or all these items for everyone.
E-waste is a monumental problem. Apple's argument is not fake. However, it might be unrelated to their actual motivation.
No matter how this is ultimately address, the solution must not be to ship everyone a charger automatically.
So many people are disadvantaged compared to other buyers in various ways. Someone who has poor closeup vision doesn't expect reading glasses to be shipped with their iPhones, even though they would be essential.
If chargers, cables, and any other accessory had always been separately purchased items, then this whole topic would never have arisen. People expected chargers, so were disadvantaged when they failed to order one. That's a fair complaint. Change has to happen, but it has to be carefully rolled out.
Plue they can't predict demand with what they have now. Would be worse with more SKUs for with out without charger
If it came with A>L I would agree 99.9.......% have an A port somewhere. But not C.
I already got a Bluetooth iHome when they went to Lightning to replace my ancient Apple port one since it was taking so long to come out with a Lightning version. Still works after all this time.
It’s my opinion most smartphone buyers are not first time buyers. And if you are one of the few you buy a charger and/or cable. Usb bricks have been ubiquitous for many years. Apple does not have a monopoly on these devices.Any company that wants to bypass local laws isn't going to thrive anywhere.
FACT.
Look at what happens with Google in China, or what used to in Russia. They either comply or are shut down.
It doesn't matter if said laws are considered unfair by 99.9% of people that live in the country or foreigners...
Believe it or not, the brazilian Consumer Code is fair - on the other hand, the judicial system is a complete joke.
That's not a valid argument, because it assumes you are a past user of said product, and owns a previous charger that is compatible with that iPhone. Neither are the case for most purchases.
What if this is your first Apple device? Or if the previous charger is not suitable for the intended smartphone?
That would mean you are at a disadvantage compared to other buyers.
This is also illegal as much as charging more for the same product if you are from a certain skin color... In both cases you are breaking the law. I can quote you which one is it, and it's not in the Consumer Code: you can find here.
The link says:
********************
It defines crimes against tax, economic and consumer relations, and provides other provisions.
Art. 7th - It constitutes a crime against "consumer relations":
I - to favor or prefer, without just cause, the buyer or customers, except for delivery systems for consumption through distributors or resellers;
Penalty - detention, from 2 (two) to 5 (five) years, or a fine.
********************
It doesn't matter if it costs 1 dollar, you can't sell any product without an essential part of it (note the word ESSENTIAL) for it to continue working.
Someone said the customer can provide the wall outlet and the energy for the charger to be plugged in. But what Apple is doing is simply removing the charger and still forcing us to buy it, with fake arguments about saving the planet, while we are still forced to get what we need from them, anyway.
If they asked for more $$$$$ and included that charger, there would be no lawsuit. Recent reports from Brazil said some stores were fined for the same reason: not selling the PHONES with it. It's not just Apple.
Por vender iPhone sem carregador, lojas de MG são multadas pelo Procon • Tecnoblog
Procon de Uberaba penaliza lojas que vendem iPhone sem carregador na caixa; especialistas explicam a decisão do órgão de defesa do consumidor
One of the things Apple loves to say is that you should never buy any other charger if it's not one of the * official * ones they sell. We even had Amazon being sued for selling lots of APPLE counterfeits! It has been said over and over these "alternate" chargers may reduce the product's lifespan or be dangerous.
Anyway, if the product (the iPhone) was intended to be used continuously, and the package lacks a crucial part of it, which enables that we continue enjoying the next day, as amazing as this may appear to you, it's illegal in Brazil.
It's considered the same as buying something defective. That "Consumer Code" kinda assumes Apple or any other are scamming you. That's my point.
They are within their rights to have a higher priced sku with more stuff in it.
To me the charger isn’t essential given it’s been a ubiquitous item for a while (and I suspect others’ opinions as well).
What Brazil is doing is contributing to more environmental waste and not watching out for consumers. Ymmv.
Me too. Complain to Apple. They just refer you to the gpv't. This is like when people complain about the tax on cells in CA NV LA MA. Well talk to your governor.
A>L for sure. But I've never had an issue with a C>L from whenever they started including them. And never had any charging brick stop working.
I pick them up anyway. I think this could be a good idea with an exception for if your address has no Apple Store without a reasonable range.
Exactly the same with people when a law only has fines as a penalty. Then that just a pocket change cost for the rich
It may be the case in the EU, not in every country. At least not in Brazil.
Apple knows this, still, wants to continue selling... you can't expect the same laws to apply everywhere you go. That's why I mentioned Google and China, they had to comply with censorship there, which is not the same as in the U.S., where you can freely search stuff like the "1989 Tiananmen Square protests". Do you think Putin's Wikipedia article in Russia is not censored as well?
I can see why they decided against these sales, it's due to the confusion it creates for lacking such charger. If you still have to buy it anyway, they should have included, despite that meaning paying more.
Again: the local law that says they can't do this... is this one:
Article 18. Suppliers of durable or nondurable consumer goods will answer for any quality or quantity deffects that make these goods inadequate for their purpose or that diminish their value, as well as any deffects resulting from the product being different from what is expected, from what is indicated in the packaging, label, or advertisement, taking into account any variations that may be a result of the goods very nature. The consumer has the right to demand substitution of any defective parts.
§ 6. The following are deemed unfitting for use and consumption: I - any expired product; II - products that have deteriorated, been altered, changed, damaged, falsified, corrupted, products that include a type of fraud, that are harmful to life or health, dangerous, or even those that did not abide by manufacturing, distribution or presentation rules;
III – products that, for any reason, may be inadequate for the purposes for which it was intended.
Can we all agree you can't use an iPhone without a charger? A car without wheels, a TV without a power cord?
Yet they didn't rely on this art. 18. It was in this particular case:
Art. 39. Forbidden abusive practices by the products or service provider includes:
I - conditioning product or service delivery to the delivery of another product or service as well as specific quantitative limits without just cause;
The ruling said this was similar to paying for your ISP subscription and also getting Disney+ and paying it monthly even if you didn't ask for that streaming service in that bundle.
It is implied in the above example the ISP needs to separate the supplying of your broadband internet connection and a subscription of Disney+. They can combine the two, but if they * only * provide both at the same time, not allowing you to choose one or the other, it's illegal.
In Apple's case, the judges are saying this is a peculiar case of "conditioning", because they are not forcing you to buy the iPhone with the charger included, that's true, still, they are doing exactly that at the same time, since without said charger you can't continue using it.
Do you understand now why I said earlier the law is fair, the problem is always the people that call themselves judges?
Despite this ruling, I still think Apple should include the charger in the box if the customer wants. For the prices they charge, they should include all these for free, including a wired headphone adapter. Just charge more if needed, but no, they have to do as they please and think can get away with it.
Like in this case...
iPhones will get USB-C charging after Apple says it will have to comply with EU law
Apple's iPhone uses its proprietary Lightning charger. Under upcoming EU law, the iPhone would need to support USB-C.
iPhones will get USB-C charging after Apple says it will have to comply with EU law
Will they now? 🤣
Going forward the charger won’t be for free. Apple will probably raise the price.
Those are gone, like the wind.
No, they follow the law, at least what they interpret as the law.
Yes they will. Just like SAR, they follow the guidelines on that as well.Like in this case...
iPhones will get USB-C charging after Apple says it will have to comply with EU law
Apple's iPhone uses its proprietary Lightning charger. Under upcoming EU law, the iPhone would need to support USB-C.www.cnbc.com
iPhones will get USB-C charging after Apple says it will have to comply with EU law
Will they now? 🤣