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Oh also another question

On the motherboard, next to the Graphics chip, there is this thing that looks just like laptop RAM. The socket and module looks just like laptop ram. But this isn't the system RAM... maybe it is the video RAM?

Also there is another part south of that, it's a module with capacitors and a coil thing, it plugs into a socket with a pin connection similar to IDE/SCSI/etc. I think this is a voltage regulator, but what is it for, and why is it removable?
 
It should work (I have only tried with a Belkin card in my Quicksilver) but not for booting, obviously. For that USB needs to be supported by Open Firmware. Your USB card would only be activated once your OS has loaded its drivers.

Even if your Beige G3 had usb ports, they would only be USB 1.x speed and an external optical drive on a USB 1.x port would be very painful for booting to say the least.

I have never owned a Beige box so have no idea what that unidentified pseudo-RAM is. However, back in the day I used to build my own PCs. For a while, you could buy motherboard cache, which looked very like a sodimm. Perhaps it is some sort of cache. I dunno.
 
It should work (I have only tried with a Belkin card in my Quicksilver) but not for booting, obviously. For that USB needs to be supported by Open Firmware. Your USB card would only be activated once your OS has loaded its drivers.

Even if your Beige G3 had usb ports, they would only be USB 1.x speed and an external optical drive on a USB 1.x port would be very painful for booting to say the least.

I don't need to boot from CDs or Floppies
 
Oh also another question

On the motherboard, next to the Graphics chip, there is this thing that looks just like laptop RAM. The socket and module looks just like laptop ram. But this isn't the system RAM... maybe it is the video RAM?

Also there is another part south of that, it's a module with capacitors and a coil thing, it plugs into a socket with a pin connection similar to IDE/SCSI/etc. I think this is a voltage regulator, but what is it for, and why is it removable?

The slot is video ram, 2MB was on board, you could add 4MB via that slot.
The other thing is in fact a voltage regulator. It's a good thing it is removable because some were dogs.
 
I've seen people get Leopard running on their beige G3s, with a G4 mod. And I think they also get USB on it.
How would I do this?
I have an old Powermac G3 beige that is no use because 1- it has OS 8, and 2- it has no USB ports. (Also there is no optical disk drive, I think it didn't work and I took it out a long time ago. I don't know what happened to it). Currently there is no way to connect to it with the outside world except by taking out the hard drive and putting it in a G4.

Can I install Tiger on it without replacing the processor? I'd rather stick with the original G3 than upgrade to G4 for Leopard. I also want to install USB PCI cards and also maybe Airport if that would work.

Know that this Mac will not be able to achieve "modern sleep"; as in, the fans will still run even while it sleeps. I personally would never use a computer that cannot do "modern sleep", as the older way of computer sleep is kind of annoying. The last model of Mac to use the old kind of sleep was the original 1999 PowerMac G4.
 
Now that I think of it, USB 1 would probably be too slow for a DVD drive, so I should probably install a classic DVD drive.

How fast is USB 1 and is it faster or slower than optical disk drives?

----------------

A USB PCI card will work with 10.2 Jaguar right? Just want to confirm. I don't want to install Tiger on this or it would be really laggy.
 
Now that I think of it, USB 1 would probably be too slow for a DVD drive, so I should probably install a classic DVD drive.

How fast is USB 1 and is it faster or slower than optical disk drives

USB 1.0 1.5 Mb/s

USB 1.1 12 Mb/s

USB 2.0 480 Mb/s

DVD (18x) 200 Mb/s read speed.

DVD (24x) 265 Mb/s

Jaguar supports USB 2.0. I have a Belkin USB 2.0 card in one of my Quicksilvers running Puma and it works just fine. Just sleep is an issue (it seems to work but the card does not wake up when the QS does) but that is not relevant for you.
 
Another question
Can I use something like an ATA to USB adapter which utilizes the ODD bay for USB ports? Or what bus does the floppy disk drive use? It would be nice to use that for USB instead but I doubt that would work. I'd probably have to use something like this instead.

Also according to weckart a USB 2 PCI card will work with Jaguar. True? (sorry this thread is a confusing mess :/)
 
Another question
Can I use something like an ATA to USB adapter which utilizes the ODD bay for USB ports? Or what bus does the floppy disk drive use? It would be nice to use that for USB instead but I doubt that would work. I'd probably have to use something like this instead.

Also according to weckart a USB 2 PCI card will work with Jaguar. True? (sorry this thread is a confusing mess :/)

I'm pretty sure that the floppy drive is on its own proprietary bus. I've not dug too deeply into this facet of Apple history, but it's connected by a narrow ribbon cable.

If I were looking for USB ports on the front of the computer, I'd be inclined to look for a USB PCI card with the specified chipsets that also has pins on the card itself to allow other USB ports to be connected. There are plenty of "boxes" on the market designed to fit into a(PC) floppy drive bay or optical bay and give you some combination of USB ports and sometimes other USB accesories like an SD or CF card reader. I've also seen some that integrated both USB and Firewire ports, so you can get both on the front if you buy a combo USB/Firewire card or install both types of cards in the computer.
 
Ok now it is all fully functional with 10.2.8 and has a dvd drive. I have another question. Panther requires a minimum of 128MB RAM, same as Jaguar. If so then wouldn't Panther be just as fast as Jaguar or does Panther have some CPU/GPU intensive stuff instead?
 
10.3 is a good deal more optimized than 10.2. Even on the same hardware, it runs much better.
 
10.3 is a good deal more optimized than 10.2. Even on the same hardware, it runs much better.

Oh really! n0cus said otherwise. Great!

To install Panther, do I only need a USB PCI card or do I need other upgrades as well? And once I have the hardware, could I install Panther out-of-the-box or does it need some hacking to allow installation on it?
 
That all depends, you can get reasonable video cards for these to fit into the PCI slot that will enable quartz extreme add a G4 CPU and you can go all the way to Leopard on these machines with some hacking. It just depends how much money you want to throw at it. You have PCI slots but they're only 32bit wide so the fastest thing you can run on them is Firewire2 or Gigabit ethernet for data transfer, or internally SATA1 bus speeds.

I wouldn't bother upgrading the internal video RAM unless you want to stay with OS X 10.4 and below as Quartz and core image wont be supported by the internal video card and its only really a crappy ATI Rage chipset anyway. While with 6mb of RAM you can play period correct games, and I've played the sims 1 which is fairly 3D intensive on it, it's really nothing to right home about and you should populate one of the PCI slots with a Radeon 9200, or above in PCI mounting format if you intend to do anything intensive with the machine.

If you do upgrade your video, due to the limited amount of slots you have try to get a video card that is either passively cooled and doesn't require a large heatsink that covers a PCI slot or go for one which only covers a single PCI slot. You'll want to use your other two PCI slots for USB2 and SATA as well as or maybe including a card that has external sata.

The best part of these machines is the cheap and plentiful SDRAM and IDE with 256mb chips you can go all the way to 768mb for around $20-$30. Being an old world ROM machine you will run into hard drive size limitations via the IDE bus for a total of 128GB without driver support, although I'd only be using the internal IDE for optical drives at this point and would fit a SATA controller ideally.

You will want the full 768MB of RAM if you intend on using one of these machines with Leopard on a regular basis. You want as much RAM as you can get particularly given the slow 66mhz system bus speed in these machines.

You can fit an SSD, but without TRIM support you'll want one with good internal garbage cleanup processes and then you might have issues anyway, because not all SATA3 drives like to run at SATA1 although there are cheap and plentiful drives like the Corsair Force3 that will operate at SATA1 happily in a Mac.

You can and I have achieved modern Wireless N on a PPC mac by using an inexpensive USB2 to Wireless N adapter dongle to get it safely and operationally onto a modern wireless network. That's quite straight forward if you need to bring your PowerMac into a modern wireless N network.

To get front mount USB and/or firewire look for any standard 5.25" bay adapter and be prepared to give up one of the 5.25" drive slots of which you only have two on these machines if its a desktop or three if its a tower. It's really better to populate one of your rear PCI slots with rear mounted USB, or perhaps a combination card that also contains firewire.

I wouldn't worry about fitting an internal airport card at this stage as they're all too old and don't have the necessary wireless encryption to secure a modern wireless network.
 
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That all depends, you can get reasonable video cards for these to fit into the PCI slot that will enable quartz extreme add a G4 CPU and you can go all the way to Leopard on these machines with some hacking. It just depends how much money you want to throw at it.

Or if you're a cheapskate like me you throw a PCI Rage 128 in it($10-15 on Ebay) to get a VGA port and slightly better performance than the onboard graphics. The Rage 128 does at least get you 16mb of VRAM vs. 2-6mb(depending on whether or not you've installed VRAM SO-DIMMS) for the onboard video.

Since this was the stock card in the B&W G3, and those can run 10.4 without too much trouble, I'd think that putting one in a Beige should make installing up to 10.4 relatively easy. I say that with the caveat that I've not actually tried it. One of my beige G3s does have 10.2 installed, but I almost exclusively run it under OS 9.
 
Or if you're a cheapskate like me you throw a PCI Rage 128 in it($10-15 on Ebay) to get a VGA port and slightly better performance than the onboard graphics. The Rage 128 does at least get you 16mb of VRAM vs. 2-6mb(depending on whether or not you've installed VRAM SO-DIMMS) for the onboard video.

Since this was the stock card in the B&W G3, and those can run 10.4 without too much trouble, I'd think that putting one in a Beige should make installing up to 10.4 relatively easy. I say that with the caveat that I've not actually tried it. One of my beige G3s does have 10.2 installed, but I almost exclusively run it under OS 9.

Yes, provided you have no intention of running Leopard any cheap video card will give you VGA and perhaps DVI out as well as the capability to output to modern large monitors at 1080p. The internal video wen populated to 6MB of RAM was OK for the timr and maybe until the early 200s, but it will struggle with a modern OS such as Tiger/Leopard.
 
That all depends, you can get reasonable video cards for these to fit into the PCI slot that will enable quartz extreme add a G4 CPU and you can go all the way to Leopard on these machines with some hacking. It just depends how much money you want to throw at it. You have PCI slots but they're only 32bit wide so the fastest thing you can run on them is Firewire2 or Gigabit ethernet for data transfer, or internally SATA1 bus speeds.

I wouldn't bother upgrading the internal video RAM unless you want to stay with OS X 10.4 and below as Quartz and core image wont be supported by the internal video card and its only really a crappy ATI Rage chipset anyway. While with 6mb of RAM you can play period correct games, and I've played the sims 1 which is fairly 3D intensive on it, it's really nothing to right home about and you should populate one of the PCI slots with a Radeon 9200, or above in PCI mounting format if you intend to do anything intensive with the machine.

If you do upgrade your video, due to the limited amount of slots you have try to get a video card that is either passively cooled and doesn't require a large heatsink that covers a PCI slot or go for one which only covers a single PCI slot. You'll want to use your other two PCI slots for USB2 and SATA as well as or maybe including a card that has external sata.

The best part of these machines is the cheap and plentiful SDRAM and IDE with 256mb chips you can go all the way to 768mb for around $20-$30. Being an old world ROM machine you will run into hard drive size limitations via the IDE bus for a total of 128GB without driver support, although I'd only be using the internal IDE for optical drives at this point and would fit a SATA controller ideally.

You will want the full 768MB of RAM if you intend on using one of these machines with Leopard on a regular basis. You want as much RAM as you can get particularly given the slow 66mhz system bus speed in these machines.

You can fit an SSD, but without TRIM support you'll want one with good internal garbage cleanup processes and then you might have issues anyway, because not all SATA3 drives like to run at SATA1 although there are cheap and plentiful drives like the Corsair Force3 that will operate at SATA1 happily in a Mac.

You can and I have achieved modern Wireless N on a PPC mac by using an inexpensive USB2 to Wireless N adapter dongle to get it safely and operationally onto a modern wireless network. That's quite straight forward if you need to bring your PowerMac into a modern wireless N network.

To get front mount USB and/or firewire look for any standard 5.25" bay adapter and be prepared to give up one of the 5.25" drive slots of which you only have two on these machines if its a desktop or three if its a tower. It's really better to populate one of your rear PCI slots with rear mounted USB, or perhaps a combination card that also contains firewire.

I wouldn't worry about fitting an internal airport card at this stage as they're all too old and don't have the necessary wireless encryption to secure a modern wireless network.

I already went through all of this! All I want to know is what I need to get Panther on it. Panther requires USB but is there anything else required for Panther?
 
I already went through all of this! All I want to know is what I need to get Panther on it. Panther requires USB but is there anything else required for Panther?

The requirements for 10.3 and above are a computer with USB ports, 1.5gb of hard drive space and 128mb of RAM. OS 9.1 will need to be installed should be installed if you intend on using classic apps.

Some build to order video cards such as those found in these machines will cause a kernel panic with OS X 10.3 you should not use the 128-Bit 2D/3D Graphics Accelerator Card that came in these machines. You should use internal graphics or upgrade to a more modern video card with driver support.

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA20510

Apple did not bother to write working drivers for the BTO card found in your machine so if you have one installed remove it.
 
The requirements for 10.3 and above are a computer with USB ports, 1.5gb of hard drive space and 128mb of RAM. OS 9.1 will need to be installed should be installed if you intend on using classic apps.

Some build to order video cards such as those found in these machines will cause a kernel panic with OS X 10.3 you should not use the 128-Bit 2D/3D Graphics Accelerator Card that came in these machines. You should use internal graphics or upgrade to a more modern video card with driver support.

http://support.apple.com/kb/TA20510

Apple did not bother to write working drivers for the BTO card found in your machine so if you have one installed remove it.

I don't have any PCi graphics cards in it at all, i just use the on-board chip
 
I don't have any PCi graphics cards in it at all, i just use the on-board chip

Then you wont have any issues. The on board chip while crappy by more modern standards is an ATi Rage chipset similarly found in other Macs of the time such as the original Rev A. Bondi blue iMac Rage II+ for Rev A. G3s and Rage Pro for Rev B. It will run Panther just fine although you will get a lot of additional life and be able to drive modern monitors if you upgrade the SGRAM to 6MB.
 
Note that it isn't possible to get CoreImage in a beige Mac. The only PCI card that supports CoreImage, the GeForce 5200, doesn't have ROM support for pre-B&W G3 Macs. Thus, the best card for it would be the ATI Radeon 9200.
 
Note that it isn't possible to get CoreImage in a beige Mac. The only PCI card that supports CoreImage, the GeForce 5200, doesn't have ROM support for pre-B&W G3 Macs. Thus, the best card for it would be the ATI Radeon 9200.

Huh thats why it couldn't run OttoMatic


So once it has a USB PCI card I can load a Panther installation disk and it would let me install it just fine? No tweaks required? Because this machine doesn't officially support it.
 
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