Browser for 10.4.11 iMac G3?

Discussion in 'PowerPC Macs' started by Mraccountname, Apr 18, 2018.

  1. Mraccountname, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018

    Mraccountname macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 30, 2017
    #1
    I am trying to find a browser that works really well on an iMac G3. First of all, the G3 optimized version of TenFourFox runs awful on it. Classilla renders almost every webpage wrong. I can't use an older web browser like Safari or Camino because they only support TLS 1.0 and SSL 3.0 and basically the entire web will stop supporting them on June 30, 2018. Any suggestions?
     
  2. casperes1996 macrumors 68040

    casperes1996

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    Horsens, Denmark
    #2
    It's impressive that you even run 10.4.11 on a G3. Must be quite slow. – You will not be able to get any better than TenFourFox I'm afraid. There's a limit to what you can do on that hardware.
     
  3. DeltaMac macrumors G3

    DeltaMac

    Joined:
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    Delaware
    #3
    Have you tried the various tweaks for TenFourFox from Eyoungren?

    Just curious, which iMac do you have? (Is the CD on a tray, or slot?)
     
  4. redheeler, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018

    redheeler macrumors 604

    redheeler

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    Oct 17, 2014
    #4
    @eyoungren has a comprehensive thread for optimizing TenFourFox, so be sure to look into that. What I found made the most difference on my iBook G4 was installing NoScript, an extension that can disable JavaScript and other heavy webpage elements you don't expressly enable. Immediately started seeing better performance from sites with ads and other unnecessary scripts to the point that it was actually usable.

    Edit: But as @casperes1996 pointed out, the iMac G3 is very old at this point, and underpowered even compared to my later-model iBook G4 from 2005. Fine for running apps that are the same period as the iMac, but don't expect the modern internet to work very well on it.
     
  5. Mraccountname, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 18, 2018

    Mraccountname thread starter macrumors newbie

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    May 30, 2017
    #5
    I have a 400mhz iMac DV SE with 512MB of RAM. Didn't know about those tweaks until now. Although, I tried to disable some animations, but it didn't really help.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 18, 2018 ---
    Ok, I will try the tweaks. I kind of figured that it would not work well on the internet. Thanks!
     
  6. DeltaMac macrumors G3

    DeltaMac

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    Jul 30, 2003
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    #6
    The G3 is going to be a pretty good limitation for anything close to effective web browsing today.

    You CAN upgrade the RAM to the full 1GB that iMac will support. That can help make a lot of tasks that you do on the iMac to be a bit smoother, and help with stability of the system. Web browsing - more RAM doesn't hurt.
     
  7. Mraccountname thread starter macrumors newbie

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    May 30, 2017
    #7
    I know that you can, but I feel like it's a bit overkill. 1GB of RAM on a 400mhz processor sounds silly.
     
  8. dogslobber macrumors 68040

    dogslobber

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    #8
    I used to run Panther on a 266mhz back in 2002 and thought it was excruciatingly slow back then. Can't imagine how it would feel today!
     
  9. Mraccountname thread starter macrumors newbie

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    May 30, 2017
    #9
    Mac OS X Panther didn't exist in 2002...
     
  10. dogslobber macrumors 68040

    dogslobber

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    #10
    Sorry. 10.2.6 if I recall? It was before I moved to a Mac fulltime in 2004. The release before the OS that support Safari beta builds.
     
  11. casperes1996 macrumors 68040

    casperes1996

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    #11

    10.2 = Jaguar :).
    I often misremember the order from Cheetah to Panther myself though.

    Cheetah, Puma, Jaguar, Panther.
     
  12. amagichnich macrumors 6502

    amagichnich

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    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    #12
    Why? The more memory you have, the less will be swapped. Swapping is what makes old machines really slow because of their poor HDD performance. So IMHO maxing out the RAM is mandatory.
    TenFourFox easily takes 400MB of RAM on my PowerBook without swapping, add the memory OS X needs and suddenly 1 gig doesn't look like much any more
     
  13. Dronecatcher macrumors 68030

    Dronecatcher

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    Jun 17, 2014
    Location:
    Lincolnshire, UK
    #13
    Your only hope is those TFF tweaks and kill all Javascript, maybe even turn images off so you're text only. This can also be done in Safari/TenFourKit which will be faster than TFF but with many incompatibilities.
     
  14. z970mp macrumors 65816

    z970mp

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    Jun 2, 2017
    #14
    Then again, there is that application/plugin/whatever that lets you browse the Internet via Terminal. It's a bare bones but interesting method.
     
  15. Dronecatcher macrumors 68030

    Dronecatcher

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    Lincolnshire, UK
    #15
    Lynx
     
  16. z970mp macrumors 65816

    z970mp

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    Jun 2, 2017
    #16
    That's right.

    That's what I would use if I had a G3.
     
  17. AphoticD, Apr 18, 2018
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2018

    AphoticD macrumors 68000

    AphoticD

    Joined:
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    Australia
    #17
    Posting here from my second gen iBook G3 500Mhz with 384MB RAM running 10.4.11.

    TenFourFox takes about 5 minutes to even load and then it freezes for the next 10 minutes while it syncs my Firefox account.. so forget it. I would only run this with 1GB of RAM or more. In saying this, I have TFF installed on my Pismo G3 400Mhz with 1GB of RAM (10.4.11) and I will only launch the 'Fox as a last resort.

    The alternatives are all outdated, so this is something you'll just have to accept. You can't expect the old Mac to handle many moderns websites under Tiger unless you're willing to wait for TFF to handle it.


    TenFourKit 533.21.1 - The last WebKit build for Tiger is possibly the most compatible browser providing the best speed. But still crashes and fails regularly. Launch times are pretty fast, comparable to the built-in version of Safari.

    TenFourKit is hosted on Google Code, which is not possible to access on a G3 without running TenFourFox, so here is the direct download link: https://storage.googleapis.com/goog...ogle.com/tenfourkit/WebKit-533.21.1-Tiger.dmg

    I didn't have much luck downloading this link via Safari, (TenFourFox will handle it fine). Alternatively, the best file downloader for the old Macs is the command line tool 'wget'. This can be installed by first installing TigerBrew;

    Copy and paste this line into Terminal.app and follow the prompts to setup 'brew':
    Code:
    ruby -e "$(curl -fsSkL raw.github.com/mistydemeo/tigerbrew/go/install)"
    EDIT: Also, on Tiger, it may be required to include /usr/local/bin in your $PATH by first:
    Code:
    echo 'export PATH=/usr/local/bin:$PATH' >> ~/.profile
    Then close the Terminal window to logout and Cmd-N to log back into a new shell. You should now see /usr/local/bin included in your $PATH environment variable with 'echo $PATH'.

    Then once installed:
    Code:
    brew doctor
    brew install curl
    brew install git
    brew install wget
    
    (This will take a few hours to complete)

    You can then download TenFourKit on your Tiger G3 via Terminal with:
    Code:
    wget -c https://storage.googleapis.com/google-code-archive-downloads/v2/code.google.com/tenfourkit/WebKit-533.21.1-Tiger.dmg
    
    Once TenFourKit (WebKit) is installed, launch it, and go to Prefs. Set WebKit as your default browser and then go to Advanced and enable the Develop Menu. This will then you give a menu option to toggle Javascript on/off.


    Camino 2.1.2 [G3] - The last version of Camino provides a reasonable balance of speed and compatibility (compared to Safari).

    There are machine specific builds outlined here:
    https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/camino-g3-g4-g4e-and-g5-builds.1788394/

    The Mediafire file listing won't load on TenFourKit, so here are the direct links to the machine specific builds found within:

    G3 (750) - http://www.mediafire.com/file/fov3wfj5kyjguf4/Camino2.1.2-G3-750.dmg
    G4 (7400) - http://www.mediafire.com/file/cghc8on7h6c5zyr/Camino2.1.2-G4-7400.dmg
    G4 (7450) - http://www.mediafire.com/file/hbrhsfx5dp2k10a/Camino2.1.2-G4-7450.dmg
    G5 (970) - http://www.mediafire.com/file/xkss1ehstpbdwt2/Camino2.1.2-G5-970.dmg

    These links require Javascript to be enabled, but do work fine with TenFourKit and once you click the green download button, it should begin to transfer OK.

    Camino seems to handle Javascript slightly better then WebKit, but you can also disable JS and other plugins via the Prefs > Web Features options.

    It's worth mentioning that Camino was a highly optimized Gecko-based browser (much like TenFourFox) and for it's time, Camino provided the fastest web browsing experience on the Mac.


    OneWindowBrowser 1.1 - The quickest browser for the G3, but limited to the capabilities of the built-in version of Safari. As the name implies, this is a "one page at a time" browser and doesn't support multiple tabs or windows. Downloading is also not an option. The default user agent is iPad (iOS 3.2.2), so many websites load quickly as the servers are delivering content tailored for a first gen iPad.

    Info and links here: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...er-for-jaguar-through-to-high-sierra.2104363/

    TenFourKit won't handle the github download links, but if you've already installed wget as outlined above, you can download OWB directly with:
    Code:
    wget -c https://github.com/AphoticD/OneWindowBrowser/raw/master/OneWindowBrowser1.1-PPC-10.2%2B.zip
    Javascript can be toggled with Cmd-J or via the options menu.

    OWB will playback Youtube in Low-Quality mode on a G3 without too much trouble. This can make the single-window browser useful where the other browsers fail. It also launches within a couple of seconds.

    EDIT: It is also a good idea on any old Mac OS X system to disable the shipped versions of Flash as they are a high security risk.

    Trash the following files (or just move to a different location):
    /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/Flash Player.plugin
    /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/flashplayer.xpt
    /Library/Internet Plug-Ins/NP-PPC-Dir-Shockwave

    You could do the same with the Java plugins if you know you won't be using them.


    Picture 1.jpg
     
  18. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #18
    TFF is slow on pretty much everything-even a Quad. With G3s, I find it difficult on anything short of late iBooks and stupidly upgraded computers like my 1ghz B&W.

    I tend to keep my G3s and slower G4s on OS 9 for that reason and I just deal with the compromises of Classilla.

    One thing I will say is that TFF does have something of a "sweet spot" in terms of uptime. It does suffer from the awful memory leaks that also plague FireFox(I use FF as my main browser, and just a day or two ago had the computer grind to a halt-I found FF using about 10gb of RAM). With that said, memory leaks are a problem with uptime in the range of a couple of weeks. TFF seems to speed up a few hours after being launched.

    As to putting 1gb in a 400mhz iMac-it's cheap and will make a difference. You do reach a point of diminishing returns, but 1gb is a reasonable amount. If you want to talk about overkill, we can talk about my 200mhz 604e-equipped 9600 that has 1.5gb. The equally alarming part is that I have enough RAM lying around to easily get another 9500 or 9600 up to 1gb, and probably 1.25gb or so if I dug through my miscellaneous EDO box.
     
  19. z970mp macrumors 65816

    z970mp

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2017
    #19
    Personally, I find a tweaked and optimized install of TFF with lightweight ad blockers very livable, coming from a Dual Core.

    But maybe that's just my patience talking, which is something you start to acquire when you're 3 years into living with PowerPCs.

    Not a bad trait to have, actually. I think the world could do with a little more patience overall.
     
  20. amagichnich macrumors 6502

    amagichnich

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    Feb 3, 2017
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    Stuttgart, Germany
    #20
    That is a really great post! Thanks a lot for the bundled information!
    Why do you use wget instead of curl?
    --- Post Merged, Apr 19, 2018 ---
    Absolutely true! People often ask me how and why I am using single core G4s in 2018 and why I want to be patient with an old machine instead of buying a new one
    Okay, I have to admit a 1.25 GHz G4 is a lot faster than a 400mhz g3 :D
     
  21. AphoticD macrumors 68000

    AphoticD

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2017
    Location:
    Australia
    #21
    Just a preference I suppose. The bundled version of curl won't handle many TLS / SSL connections, however the Tigerbrew or MacPorts version should work fine.

    On The G3 Macs, I find Tigerbrew to be quite a bit lighter than MacPorts, but either would work.
     
  22. bunnspecial macrumors 603

    bunnspecial

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    May 3, 2014
    Location:
    Kentucky
    #22
    When you primarily run Leopard Webkit and realize how much faster it is, it is easy to get impatient with TFF.

    If you want to test your patience...come browse the internet on my 9600-something I used to do with some frequency although my current set-up makes using it problematic.

    Don't forget that folks like @LightBulbFun have made OS X run on stupidly slow hardware-and I've run it for them. Tiger on the 8600 or 9600 with only a few hundred mb of RAM is...fun. Unfortunately, I never could get TFF to launch, although Kaiser says it should work. It runs great on my 8600 now, but it's not exactly stock anymore.
     
  23. eyoungren macrumors Core

    eyoungren

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    ten-zero-eleven-zero-zero by zero-two
    #23
    Or…

    When you primarily run TenFourFox and realize how much more customizable it is, it is easy to get irritated with Leopard Webkit.

    But as you know, I am willing to trade off some speed for flexibility.

    I have to say though that T4Fx on my Quad and DC, as modified by me, is often comparable to Firefox on my MacPro. I know that's not saying a lot considering my MacPro is 2006 vintage (Snow Leopard max) but it is what it is.
     
  24. z970mp macrumors 65816

    z970mp

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    #24
    ...Unless you're primarily booted into Tiger and think Leopard Webkit is too damn unstable for the modern web anyway. ;)
     
  25. d-oost macrumors 6502a

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    Jan 10, 2016
    #25
    Agreed. As great as it is to have a project like TFF focused on the PowerPC Macs, even with optimizations it feels like such a hog compared to LWK. But honestly, web browsing on a PowerPC Mac in 2018 is a practice in pain anyways, I only do it to grab files or if I quickly need to look something up and am already on a PPC Mac.
     

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