Browsers for Panther?

[VirtuallyInsane]

I bought a 2004 iBook G4 in good condition for a good price and it's on 10.3.9 Panther. I am enjoying playing around with it, and have installed several programs onto it, which work well, the music sounds and streams well in iTunes and it runs 240p videos smoothly (I know that's not much, but it plays them, that's all I care about) but I want to know if there are any browsers that work in Panther currently? Firefox 2 works a bit, but it's not great.

I'm not looking to use it for anything more than some media playback and writing as a minimalist setup, but it would be nice to go online with it and browse the web as well. If no current browsers work, then it's not the end of the world. I would like to keep it on Panther because all the programs I installed onto it are Panther-specific. I have tried some browsers, but none of them really work.

Am I missing any? Is there any way to get browsers to work on Panther? If so, which ones still work?

Thanks in advance.

 

[theMarble]

There are a few browsers that work on Panther, however most, if not all are a decade+ old and don't support any of the modern web standards. I'm not sure whether RetroZilla is fully working on Panther yet but that will be/is the only modern browser for Panther?

Why not upgrade to Tiger or Leopard? You've got anywhere between a 1GHz and 1.33GHz G4 plus a Radeon 9200. Plenty powerful enough for either. Then you can run InterWebPPC, and so much more since Tiger and Leopard are the focus for modern PPC apps these days.

 

[VirtuallyInsane]

There are a few browsers that work on Panther, however most, if not all are a decade+ old and don't support any of the modern web standards. I'm not whether RetroZilla is fully working on Panther yet but that will be/is the only modern browser for Panther?

Why not upgrade to Tiger or Leopard? You've got anywhere between a 1GHz and 1.33GHz G4 plus a Radeon 9200. Plenty powerful enough for either. Then you can run InterWebPPC, and so much more since Tiger and Leopard are the focus for modern PPC apps these days.

That's fair enough. I might give Retrozilla a go and report back.

I don't have an issue with upgrading per-se but don't I need a CD for that, or is there a file that you can download online? And will all my apps still run fine? (Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm asking because I downloaded the apps specifically for Panther, and upgrading to Tiger won't upset that, right?)

I'm new to the whole PowerPC thing, as you can see. Figuring it out as I go along, mostly.

 

[TheShortTimer]

I don't have an issue with upgrading per-se but don't I need a CD for that, or is there a file that you can download online? And will all my apps still run fine? (Sorry if this is a stupid question, I'm asking because I downloaded the apps specifically for Panther, and upgrading to Tiger won't upset that, right?)

Have to agree with @theMarble. I can't recommend enough that you upgrade to Tiger - it's essentially an optimised version of Panther and it'll open up access to far more software than is currently available to you. Tiger can be downloaded from the Macintosh Garden. Can you burn a DVD? If so, choose "Download #32" from here.

I'm new to the whole PowerPC thing, as you can see. Figuring it out as I go along, mostly.

Welcome aboard! Hopefully we'll be able to help you find your way in this strange new world.

 

[VirtuallyInsane]

Have to agree with @theMarble. I can't recommend enough that you upgrade to Tiger - it's essentially an optimised version of Panther and it'll open up access to far more software than is currently available to you. Tiger can be downloaded from the Macintosh Garden. Can you burn a DVD? If so, choose "Download #32" from here.



Welcome aboard! Hopefully we'll be able to help you find your way in this strange new world.

Is it also possible to use a USB for the download, or does it have to be a CD disk? I have the .dmg downloaded. Not sure if I have a disk, though. I have a DVD/CD drive somewhere sitting around.

And thanks I am finding my foray into PPC products interesting so far.

 

[eyoungren]

Is it also possible to use a USB for the download, or does it have to be a CD disk? I have the .dmg downloaded. Not sure if I have a disk, though. I have a DVD/CD drive somewhere sitting around.

And thanks I am finding my foray into PPC products interesting so far.

You can restore the image to a USB stick and boot off the USB stick to install the OS. That's going to require using Open Firmware commands as USB booting is not natively enabled for G4s and below.

Someone maybe be able to give you the OF commands for this, I never remember them.

 

[VirtuallyInsane]

You can restore the image to a USB stick and boot off the USB stick to install the OS. That's going to require using Open Firmware commands as USB booting is not natively enabled for G4s and below.

Someone maybe be able to give you the OF commands for this, I never remember them.

Ok, thank you.

 

[theMarble]

Someone maybe be able to give you the OF commands for this, I never remember them.

1. Hold Command+Option+O+F
2. dev / ls
3. devalias ud /pci@f2000000/usb@1b/disk@1
4. boot ud:,\\:tbxi

Please note! Number 3's part "usb@1b/disk@1" is an example, which is why you use dev / ls. You can check what your disk@ number is from the Info menu in Disk Utility when you make the USB installer. Then when you list devices in OF with dev / ls, you will find multiple usb@ devices. The one that has a disk@ will be your USB installer. Then alias that as "ud" and boot!

 

[theMarble]

You can restore the image to a USB stick and boot off the USB stick to install the OS.

The best way to do this is using the "asr" command in Terminal. This is only needed if you are running El Capitan or newer since I find that the new Disk Utility doesn't like making bootable installers. If you are using Tiger-Yosemite's Disk Utility, you can do it graphically with the Restore menu.

The command is:
sudo asr restore --source drag your "Mac OS X Install DVD" volume here --target drag your USB stick here -erase -noverify

You will want to use the volume, found in the Computer folder in Finder, rather than the .dmg file.

 

[Amethyst1]

The command is:
sudo asr restore --source drag your "Mac OS X Install DVD" volume here --target drag your USB stick here -erase -noverify

Isn't it this, i.e. two dashes before each switch?
sudo asr restore --source drag_your_"Mac OS X Install DVD"_volume_here --target drag_your_USB_stick_here --erase --noverify

 

[VirtuallyInsane]

Thank you guys... a dumb question but will all my old programs and files be fine or should I make a back up just incase?

 

[theMarble]

Isn't it this, i.e. two dashes before each switch?
sudo asr restore --source drag_your_"Mac OS X Install DVD"_volume_here --target drag_your_USB_stick_here --erase --noverify

It can be either for some reason.

 

[theMarble]

Thank you guys... a dumb question but will all my old programs and files be fine or should I make a back up just incase?

When you are installing fresh, it will erase/override your Panther drive most likely, so yes I would take a backup beforehand.

 

[VirtuallyInsane]

When you are installing fresh, it will erase/override your Panther drive most likely, so yes I would take a backup beforehand.

Okay, thanks. Will my programs need reinstalled on Tiger?

 

[theMarble]

Will my programs need reinstalled on Tiger?

Yes.

 

[TheShortTimer]

You can restore the image to a USB stick and boot off the USB stick to install the OS. That's going to require using Open Firmware commands as USB booting is not natively enabled for G4s and below.

USB booting is natively enabled for many G4s and below.

Tiger set up on my iMac G3 using native USB booting.

Tiger set up on my eMac G4 using native USB booting - and this is a thread that you participated in.

I've also set up Tiger via native USB booting on my dual USB G3 iBooks.

All it took was holding down Option once the Mac chime has sounded.

errr not quite!

anything that has a Uninorth chipset can boot from USB, this includes Sawtooths (Sawteeth?) and the first iBook G3's

on these early systems you can even USB boot simply by holding down the alt key, and it will even work via USB cards as well


anything with a Grackle/MPC106 chipset cannot boot from USB simply as their firmware does not include a mass storage driver, theoretically someone could write an OpenFirmware mass storage driver for these systems and load it in as a NVRAMRC patch or such if space allows and boot from USB

A sticky is really needed for this topic...

 

[theMarble]

USB booting is natively enabled for many G4s and below.

Yes, OF is not necessary if you're installing Mac OS X.

 

[VirtuallyInsane]

Yes.

Ah, okay. Thanks for letting me know.

 

[VirtuallyInsane]

UPDATE: I managed to find my DVD/CD Drive and an empty disk and burn the Tiger file onto it.

Does this mean that I can just install it without reinstalling the programs?

 

[TheShortTimer]

UPDATE: I managed to find my DVD/CD Drive and an empty disk and burn the Tiger file onto it.

Congrats!

Does this mean that I can just install it without reinstalling the programs?

No, as @theMarble explained above, they'll have to be reinstalled for your new installation. There are workarounds but they would involve the usage of an external HDD or a 2nd Mac and FireWire cables. Seeing as you're a newcomer, it would probably be easier to just reinstall the software after Tiger has been installed.

 

[VirtuallyInsane]

Congrats!



No, as @theMarble explained above, they'll have to be reinstalled for your new installation. There are workarounds but they would involve the usage of an external HDD or a 2nd Mac and FireWire cables. Seeing as you're a newcomer, it would probably be easier to just reinstall the software after Tiger has been installed.

Thanks. I am making a backup now, and I will just reinstall the programs (it's not the end of the world). I can find the Tiger versions and just leave it at Tiger. Maybe even download more things. Not gonna any further than that.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Thanks. I am making a backup now, and I will just reinstall the programs (it's not the end of the world). I can find the Tiger versions and just leave it at Tiger. Maybe even download more things. Not gonna any further than that.

They should all work under Tiger. When used Panther with Tiger on a regular basis I couldn't recall any programs that wouldn't run on the latter - and you'll also have access to much more software, including new stuff that's shared within this very forum.

You won't regret the switch. Have fun with your iBook G4 (I bought my second one recently) and if you need help or have questions, we're here.

 

[VirtuallyInsane]

They should all work under Tiger. When used Panther with Tiger on a regular basis I couldn't recall any programs that wouldn't run on the latter - and you'll also have access to much more software, including new stuff that's shared within this very forum.

You won't regret the switch. Have fun with your iBook G4 (I bought my second one recently) and if you need help or have questions, we're here.

I am actually looking forward to that aspect of it. More software. I am making an 'install list' and am going to find some of the files on the Mac archive website if I can. If not, I can ask around, right?

Also, nice find for £12. Mine was £26 but I'm not complaining, it's in very good condition. I basically looked for the cheapest working one to "buy now" and went with it. Surprised so far that it can handle things well, despite being so old.

Here are two photos (took these the other day):

This is what it looks like so far before I upgrade it to Tiger. Was surprised that the background wallpaper fit so well actually and didn't look totally skewed.

This is it connected to my iPod 3rd Gen (that still has battery power in it, surprisingly) in iTunes 7. Yes, it's called OG Fatass affectionately 'cause it's a 40GB one. A very chunky iPod.

 

[TheShortTimer]

I am actually looking forward to that aspect of it. More software. I am making an 'install list' and am going to find some of the files on the Mac archive website if I can. If not, I can ask around, right?

Of course!

Also, nice find for £12. Mine was £26 but I'm not complaining, it's in very good condition. I basically looked for the cheapest working one to "buy now" and went with it. Surprised so far that it can handle things well, despite being so old.

£26 is a decent price. I've paid around that for many of my PPC Macs. I actually prefer buy-it-now but sometimes bidding is the only way to get what you want. The longer you stick around these parts, the more you'll be surprised at what these old machines can pull off. My Mac Mini G4 can play 720p HD content.

Here are two photos (took these the other day):

View attachment 2132867

This is what it looks like so far before I upgrade it to Tiger. Was surprised that the background wallpaper fit so well actually and didn't look totally skewed.

View attachment 2132869

Very nice and yeah, that's damn good condition! Who's the duo shown in the wallpaper?

This is it connected to my iPod 3rd Gen (that still has battery power in it, surprisingly) in iTunes 7. Yes, it's called OG Fatass affectionately 'cause it's a 40GB one. A very chunky iPod.

Cool, is that one which you've owned from new or is it a retro purchase?

 

[VirtuallyInsane]

Of course!

I'm running the disk through it now, and have backed up my apps, docs, and music from Panther in the iCloud Drive and on my 128GB USB stick, just in case.

£26 is a decent price. I've paid around that for many of my PPC Macs. I actually prefer buy-it-now but sometimes bidding is the only way to get what you want. The longer you stick around these parts, the more you'll be surprised at what these old machines can pull off. My Mac Mini G4 can play 720p HD content.

Yeah, I do bid sometimes on things. And 720HD content? Nice! I played an Arrested Development DVD yesterday on my iBook and it ran smoothly. Music streams very well, and iMovie's not bad at all. I have a bunch of 240p music videos, and they don't look too awful in Quicktime. I tried 480, but it was loading too slowly.

I may upgrade the RAM, and the memory at a later point, for now, I am just playing around with it and mainly using it for writing, and maybe if I can get a browser working, email myself some .docs to and from the iBook.

It also came with Tony Hawk Pro Skater, and that runs very well. I haven't played it much, but I am satisfied with it.

Very nice and yeah, that's damn good condition! Who's the duo shown in the wallpaper?

I was surprised when I got it myself lol.

That is Alexis y Fido. I really got into them recently, for some reason but the wallpaper is from their 2009 album Down To Earth. I got bored with the default wallpaper, so I put that on.

Cool, is that one which you've owned from new or is it a retro purchase?

Retro purchase. I got that a few years back, in good condition for about £35, I think. Replaced the battery but I prefer to use it inside on the dock. It's chugging away and working along, doing its thing with old music.