Budget AI Model DeepSeek Overtakes ChatGPT on App Store

[JPack]

This can't be right. I was told China doesn't "have access to modern AI" and that "every single AI offering they have spit out in the last five years have been fake" because "China doesn't have access to advance AI nodes."

Copium to the max. 🤣

 

[ArPe]

Number 1 in App Store means little. These are media driven clicks on the App Store.

Almost nobody cares. This is just finance bros and tech bros lining their pockets, changing narratives all the time to manipulate the stock markets.

I have to visit partner and client offices in Hong Kong and Singapore. Departments are frustrated with all language model based tools. So they use them minimally.

A news reporter came to ask us if we use AI. Our boss told us to say we use AI. We don’t use AI. There is no Deepseek or ChatGPT or Gemini reliable enough. It’s not predictable, the output is too heavy, it doesn’t integrate well everywhere.

The worst side effect is people who rely on it start to lose their natural abilities. It’s like a downer after stopping drugs. Their brain stops working energetically.

 

[Codeseven]

This is actually a great point.
Apple probably is already there, and they ste fine tuning it so it can really destroy the competition when its finally ready.
The rest of these grifters can go to hell

The NASDAQ is crashing, down over 600 points. Tech stocks are taking a dump!….Apple? Hmmm, UP^ nearly 3%!

 

[genovelle]

Honestly what can China do with your dancing video data?
You would rather have your data given to US companies so they could pass them to your gov, so that they can technically get any info they want or able to quickly take any action on you?

A foreign adversary being directly embedded into the mobile devices of 175 million Americans, with the ability to track behavior, determine how to best get them to click on ads that in turn infect their devices for the ability to record conversations, key strokes to your banking information, or that of you job. It’s how they gained access to infrastructure targets, multinational corporations etc where whole systems have been shutdown for days or weeks.

Capital One just suffered issues this month.

Many attacks are really tests to see how we respond. The TikTok ban based on National Security is more than they wanted to tell us about it, so it’s likely they already know what they’re doing and the danger it poses.

Them going to a certain Presidential candidate before the election speaks volumes.

 

[cocky jeremy]

Why's everyone so afraid of China having your info? All the US companies already have it.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I've been using DeepSeek the last couple of weeks, to see if I could replace ChatGPT Plus.

I'm impressed enough to ditch the ChatGPT Plus subscription, that I've used since September last year.

* ChatGPT is still better at understanding and producing text.
* DeepSeek is better at generating code (Javascript and more).

I think maybe I'll use the free ChatGPT and DeepSeek side by side for now...

The only problem _today_ is that the sudden popularity has made DeepSeek showing signs of congestion: "Oops! DeepSeek is experiencing high traffic at the moment. Please check back in a little while." <--- Never seen that message until today.

 

[Ad47uk]

i don't even trust the AI that comes from the U.S, so I certainly think I would give Chinese AI a miss.

 

[Ad47uk]

Why's everyone so afraid of China having your info? All the US companies already have it.

i don't trust them either

 

[ThisIsMike]

This is actually fantastic news for Apple. This would support the idea that if they put enough investment and manpower behind it, Apple can still catch up to, or even surpass, current AI models, and they can do it while spending less. Fingers crossed they actually execute.

There are some other positives for Apple. If I understand it correctly, Deepseek can be run locally, in device, which is extremely encouraging as to what Apple can achieve functionally on the iPhone, without having to offload inquiries to the cloud. In other words, we could actually REALLY have a smarter Siri, finally. On device AI of this magnitude would also surely be a compelling reason to upgrade your iphone.

Also, apparently Deepseek was developed by a very small team of largely post-college or grad school level engineers, which if true is also encouraging as to what Apple can achieve.

I think there’s a reason Apple is probably the only tech stock that’s up today - and this is the reason. They have the most to gain, as this could strengthen their position and weaken their competition.

 

[Analog Kid]

There are some other positives for Apple. If I understand it correctly, Deepseek can be run locally, in device, which is extremely encouraging as to what Apple can achieve functionally on the iPhone, without having to offload inquiries to the cloud. In other words, we could actually REALLY have a smarter Siri, finally. On device AI of this magnitude would also surely be a compelling reason to upgrade your iphone.

Also, apparently Deepseek was developed by a very small team of largely post-college or grad school level engineers, which if true is also encouraging as to what Apple can achieve.

I think there’s a reason Apple is probably the only tech stock that’s up today - and this is the reason. They have the most to gain, as this could strengthen their position and weaken their competition.

Yeah, I've been trying to understand why tech stocks all fell en masse on this news-- better, more accessible AI seems good for everyone. Maybe people are unhappy with the foreign source, but it just shows what a little more work can achieve. Nvidia in particular seems a potential winner from this as competition for their customers drives up demand for computing resources, but they seem to have been hit most strongly.

I'm just reminded yet again that Wall Street invests heavily in new technology but they don't understand technology...

 

[Realityck]

This can't be right. I was told China doesn't "have access to modern AI" and that "every single AI offering they have spit out in the last five years have been fake" because "China doesn't have access to advance AI nodes."

There are lots of talented software engineers worldwide that are unknown until discovered. Innovation starts in garages even, not big behemoth companies that like to think they are the only ones. 😀

 

[jimbobb24]

Remember, they are desperately afraid that some Chinese bogeyman is about to jump out from behind a bush. If you take their word for it, we are about to be invaded by drone, through the arctic circle, AND by a secret army dressed and appearing like Colombians sneaking in through Mexico. The root of it is US paranoia about being eclipsed economically, and it’s easier to scapegoat someone with a vastly different language and appearance than someone like Australia.

Sure and also Australia is a tiny country. The only countries with even a remote chance of eclipsing us have to be as big as us or bigger and they both happen to speak different languages. The next century will belong to India or China and India being more free is better for the world but China is more competent so they will probably win. But being eclipsed economically isn't scary because all the countries in the world can actually be rich. China has a much bigger population naturally they will eclipse us over time. Same with India.

 

[lanceuppercut47]

How I imagine the meetings at all the US based AI-mongers are going right now..

 

[ThisIsMike]

Yeah, I've been trying to understand why tech stocks all fell en masse on this news-- better, more accessible AI seems good for everyone. Maybe people are unhappy with the foreign source, but it just shows what a little more work can achieve. Nvidia in particular seems a potential winner from this as competition for their customers drives up demand for computing resources, but they seem to have been hit most strongly.

I'm just reminded yet again that Wall Street invests heavily in new technology but they don't understand technology...

Nvidia has been hit because this may provide evidence that you don’t need the most powerful, most advanced chips to power AI. But the emphasis here is on “may,” and as is typical for Wall Street, this is likely an overreaction that will ultimately correct itself. I think Nvidia’s business is going to be fine.

However, this does potentially hurt OpenAI, Microsoft… basically anyone who was counting on making AI closed and expensive to access. As well as anticipating having the most powerful AI available.

 

[robertmorris2]

Honestly what can China do with your dancing video data?
You would rather have your data given to US companies so they could pass them to your gov, so that they can technically get any info they want or able to quickly take any action on you?

do you not think china is data minning ?

 

[ArPe]

How I imagine the meetings at all the US based AI-mongers are going right now..

View attachment 2476463

The media is reporting Deepseek spent peanuts.

They themselves said they have at least 50,000 H100 GPUs. This is an extremely high cost in the billions.

That is not including the cost of training and ongoing training.

They also trained several models not just one, which means even more cost.

They said Deepseek is the side project of their quant fund which was mining and trading cryptos.

We don’t know what assets this quant fund has. They could be running meme coins scams on the world every day and then using that to fund their projects and lambos.

 

[JPack]

The media is reporting Deepseek spent peanuts.

They themselves said they have at least 50,000 H100 GPUs. This is an extremely high cost in the billions.

That is not including the cost of training and ongoing training.

They also trained several models not just one, which means even more cost.

They said Deepseek is the side project of their quant fund which was mining and trading cryptos.

We don’t know what assets this quant fund has. They could be running meme coins scams on the world every day and then using that to fund their projects and lambos.

DeepSeek said they used H800s. Everyone has H100 because that's the starting point of every AI company. Until this month, everyone thought you needed tens of thousands of H100s to make anything.

Actions speak louder than words. If the cost of creating the model was high, it wouldn't be free and open source on day one.

The amount of computing power used by DeepSeek is roughly the equivalent of what's available to PhD students.

The next 2-5 months will be incredible. DS v3 is just the beginning. They've promised much more later this year.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

The Chinese AI startup behind the model was founded by hedge fund manager Liang Wenfeng, who claims they used just 2,048 Nvidia H800s and $5.6 million to train R1 with 671 billion parameters​

DeepSeek launched a free, open-source large language model in late December, claiming it was developed in just two months at a cost of under $6 million.

https://www.cnbc.com/2025/01/27/nvidia-falls-10percent-in-premarket-trading-as-chinas-deepseek-triggers-global-tech-sell-off.html

I really, really hope this is true... 🙂

 

[ArPe]

DeepSeek said they used H800s. Everyone has H100 because that's the starting point of every AI company. Until this month, everyone thought you needed tens of thousands of H100s to make anything.

They have a mix of many GPUs collected going back before any sanctions.

Sanctions don’t work anyway. Hong Kong and Singapore has no issue importing through many channels and sending on to mainland China.

There are also sales agents who travel the world gathering GPUs and send them via gray market. Currently they are also removing chips and VRAM from 4090 cards to make smuggling easier. Then they sell these dud 4090s on eBay as functional cards.

Actions speak louder than words. If the cost of creating the model was high, it wouldn't be free and open source on day one.

You have been using many ‘free’ services such as social media for years where the cost was high for the companies.

Right now they give you some smaller models to download locally. These are just tasters to make you sign up to the big models online that you will never be able to run locally.

You are the product, as ever. Monetization comes later.

Don’t be gullible. Nothing is free. Tech companies will charge you for sunlight and air when they run out of ideas.

 

[StanleyOmar]

Is China trustworthy? No. This is open source, though.

Is the US any more trustworthy at this point? You can't even count on an agreement or court ruling surviving a change of presidents, and it's not like OpenAI isn't also constantly "evolving" its core beliefs.

 

[Frantisekj]

Is China trustworthy? No. This is open source, though.

Yeah a and log in option is of course Log in with Google lol on phone with Apple pay as well.

 

[thebart]

same problem as tie Tok I would think. China could be using app to collect info. spy. record. like amazon and Alexia.

That's fine. The Chinese government can have my prompts for bash scripts, SQL queries, python rust js css code. Have fun

 

[andiwm2003]

Does anybody know by now if they really have a better algorithm that explains the leap in efficiency and drop in price? Or did they just copy the weights of one of the published LLM's and added some cross training on the common benchmark tests and then claimed it's all their own development?
Or did they use their 50 000 chips and data and electricity they got for free from their government to train the models and just claim they did it with 2000 chips (basically a scam)?

I haven't found an independent analysis of this that confirms that there is really a breakthrough.

 

[mansplains]

My Dad just passed away on the weekend, and he always said cash was king, he had a bankbook, no credit card, when he got paid he'd take all his money out...Seems impossible in this digital age, but I think about the method to his madness a lot.

My condolences, sorry for your loss.

Just taking the money out seems impossible when all banks impose penal fees if you don't maintain a minimum balance, etc. You pretty much have to take direct deposit for your payroll, banks will always be involved in one way or another.

 

[OneMike]

I'd rather make use of something that's 1/50th of the speed so I can avoid passing any information over to a Chinese platform.

If you’re paying sensitive information to any of these apps you’re doing it wrong in my opinion