MP 1,1-5,1 Build Advice - Mac Pro 5,1 for Photo Editing (in 2021)

[SamB_]

I'd like some input on these plans for updating my trusty Mac Pro 5,1 for photo editing with Lightroom Classic/Photoshop:

CURRENT CONFIG:

MP 5,1
6 core 3.33ghz processor
Radeon RX 580
Mojave 10.14.6
32 GB RAM (4x8GB)
old SSD boot and scratch running via (former) optical drives
2x 14TB Toshiba 7200 RPM HDD
2x other HDDs

My existing photo libraries total 20 TB, I add about 3.5TB/yr with current cameras.

BUILD CHANGES:

Retain existing 6 core 3.33ghz processor & RX580 (little gained with 3.46ghz 6 core, nothing gained in PD/LRC from a 12 core setup?)
48GB RAM (3x16GB)
Sonnet m.2 4x4 pcie card
- 1x Sabrent Rocket Q 2TB boot drive
- 3x Sabrent Rocket Q 2TB RAID 0 working files array (current projects)
4x 14TB Toshiba 7200 rpm NAS drives (housing completed work), config with SoftRAID in RAID 5?
GC Titan Ridge Thunderbolt 3 PCIE controller (run to backup volume RAID)

QUESTIONS:
(1) is this a good plan?
(2) will there be any issue booting from the Sabrent Rocket Q 2TB on the Sonnet m.2 4x4 pcie card?
(3) Is there anything to consider with upgradability to Catalina or Big Sur? (I may need to at some point to access the latest Adobe LRC/PS versions)
(4) What am I not aware of that I should consider?

Any advice/confirmation/thoughts greatly appreciated. I was considering waiting for the M1x Mac Mini, but I need to upgrade *now* and with my storage needs, this is probably more cost effective, and should push another 2-3 years out of my 2010 cMP?

 

[AlexMaximus]

Hi Sam,

a couple things I might add here..

(1) I still to this day use my MP 5.1, I think its a good plan that will work till the new generation of Mac Pros will come out. However, consider to think about how to transfer all that hardware into a new solution down the raod.
(2) I currently have a Sabrent Rocket 2TB blade in my I/O crest PCIe adapter and it boots fine in Mojave. Chances are it will work great in a Sonnet adapter. I don't see a problem here, although there might be some fiddling with settings needed for that SoftRaid.
(3) Upgrade to Catalina should be not a big problem. You have two different pathways forward that you can choose from. Either Dosdude patch or Open Core. If you really go for the GC Titan Ridge adapter, only Open Core setup makes sense ! -> Titan Ridge means, the Dosdude rout will not fully work for you.
(4) You are correct on the CPU view, the difference between 3,33 and 3,46 is too small to consider. HOWEVER, the swap to the 3,46 X5690 CPU allows you to put 64 GB of Ram in your rig, up from the 48 three channel configuration. It improves your RAM Max ceiling. Question remains if that is important for you or not? With large files it might be.

 

[SamB_]

Hi Sam,

a couple things I might add here..

(1) I still to this day use my MP 5.1, I think its a good plan that will work till the new generation of Mac Pros will come out. However, consider to think about how to transfer all that hardware into a new solution down the raod.
(2) I currently have a Sabrent Rocket 2TB blade in my I/O crest PCIe adapter and it boots fine in Mojave. Chances are it will work great in a Sonnet adapter. I don't see a problem here, although there might be some fiddling with settings needed for that SoftRaid.
(3) Upgrade to Catalina should be not a big problem. You have two different pathways forward that you can choose from. Either Dosdude patch or Open Core. If you really go for the GC Titan Ridge adapter, only Open Core setup makes sense ! -> Titan Ridge means, the Dosdude rout will not fully work for you.
(4) You are correct on the CPU view, the difference between 3,33 and 3,46 is too small to consider. HOWEVER, the swap to the 3,46 X5690 CPU allows you to put 64 GB of Ram in your rig, up from the 48 three channel configuration. It improves your RAM Max ceiling. Question remains if that is important for you or not? With large files it might be.

Thanks for the feedback.

I think 48GB RAM should be plenty for LRC and PS to share? My PS files are rarely over 5GB, with 20-30 layers (I shoot composite architecture on a 50MP Fujifilm GFX 50S, but may upgrade to the 100MP camera at some point).

I may have missed this, but it sounds like you're saying I cannot install the Titan Ridge TB3 controller without installing OpenCore?

My main use for TB3 would be to a new backup RAID, and since it's only for backup, maybe I should just add a USB3 controller (which one?) instead, for simplicity/reliability and avoid OpenCore for now?

I'm also wondering if a faster GPU (than the RX580) would improve PS/LRC at all, but I want to see how the RAM and Sonnet 4x4 improve things first (may want an 8k monitor at some point, which would mean a new GPU).

Thanks again for your input!

 

[Alexis Noel]

Thanks for the feedback.

I think 48GB RAM should be plenty for LRC and PS to share? My PS files are rarely over 5GB, with 20-30 layers (I shoot composite architecture on a 50MP Fujifilm GFX 50S, but may upgrade to the 100MP camera at some point).

I may have missed this, but it sounds like you're saying I cannot install the Titan Ridge TB3 controller without installing OpenCore?

My main use for TB3 would be to a new backup RAID, and since it's only for backup, maybe I should just add a USB3 controller (which one?) instead, for simplicity/reliability and avoid OpenCore for now?

I'm also wondering if a faster GPU (than the RX580) would improve PS/LRC at all, but I want to see how the RAM and Sonnet 4x4 improve things first (may want an 8k monitor at some point, which would mean a new GPU).

Thanks again for your input!

48GB RAM is enough.

Yes, the Titan Ridge TB3 controller needs to be flashed and requires OpenCore to get it working.
The titan ridge would be a better choice than a USB3 card.
Can't really give a definite answer on PS/LRC, however I do believe I see a difference between my previous RX 580 and my current RX 5700 XT. I'm sure the additional RAM and the Sonnet card would be big gains on their own without a GPU upgrade.

However, staying on Mojave, the only GPU Upgrades you have at this point is a Vega 56, Vega 64, Vega Frontier Edition, and a Radeon VII HBM2 cards. Any Navi (RX 5000 series cards) would require moving up to Catalina. As noted by the previous commenter, Catalina would require either DosDude or OpenCore.

In my experience, if you plan on upgrading from Mojave, use OpenCore and skip Catalina. Go straight to Big Sur. (A caveat is that you'd need to add the Mojave kext for WiFi if using the stock wifi card, however that's relatively simple, or buy an BCM94360CD WiFi/BT card as Big Sur does not support the original card.)

Other benefits of OpenCore, aside from Big Sur/Catalina and TB3, include;
- Hardware Acceleration (HEVC and H264) + DRM for your GPU,
- Boot Screen and Boot Picker,
- Make external drives internal (such as your current PCIe host card with NVME or your future Sonnet card),
- Installing UEFI Windows
- Able to use Navi cards under Catalina or Big Sur

 

[LordeOurMother]

I'm fairly certain you can buy a flashed TB3 card that will work without Opencore, but correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[ggyenyen]

48GB RAM is enough.

Yes, the Titan Ridge TB3 controller needs to be flashed and requires OpenCore to get it working.
The titan ridge would be a better choice than a USB3 card.
Can't really give a definite answer on PS/LRC, however I do believe I see a difference between my previous RX 580 and my current RX 5700 XT. I'm sure the additional RAM and the Sonnet card would be big gains on their own without a GPU upgrade.

However, staying on Mojave, the only GPU Upgrades you have at this point is a Vega 56, Vega 64, Vega Frontier Edition, and a Radeon VII HBM2 cards. Any Navi (RX 5000 series cards) would require moving up to Catalina. As noted by the previous commenter, Catalina would require either DosDude or OpenCore.

In my experience, if you plan on upgrading from Mojave, use OpenCore and skip Catalina. Go straight to Big Sur. (A caveat is that you'd need to add the Mojave kext for WiFi if using the stock wifi card, however that's relatively simple, or buy an BCM94360CD WiFi/BT card as Big Sur does not support the original card.)

Other benefits of OpenCore, aside from Big Sur/Catalina and TB3, include;
- Hardware Acceleration (HEVC and H264) + DRM for your GPU,
- Boot Screen and Boot Picker,
- Make external drives internal (such as your current PCIe host card with NVME or your future Sonnet card),
- Installing UEFI Windows
- Able to use Navi cards under Catalina or Big Sur

Did you have a Radeon VII in your system? I was wondering about the 5700xt but at the time I was on Mojave so I went for the VII. I made the jump to Big Sur as I really liked the look of the UI but the only problem I had with BS was I couldn't play any video content in the TV app, so I went back to Mojave. Now Ive made the just to Catalina (reluctantly) but have notice its a bit nippier than Mojave. Can anyone verify a different between the VII and rx5700xt? I know the big different is the 16gb hbm2 ram on the VII and that card rips through rendering videos on Davinci Resolve as Ive flashed my system for hardware acceleration. I was also thinking about the titan ridge for the thunderbolt but I am uneasy about messing about with open core As I heard stories is messes with your EFI firmware and bricking some Macs in the process if something goes tits up. I too are always on the hunt for a faster GPU to whack in my system as its the only thing I can keep upgrading everything else in there is maxed out to the hilt. I even took out 32gb ram and now have 96 rather then 128 and taking out one stick per cpu made the Mac much faster for some reason. HUH! who would guess?

 

[AlexMaximus]

I'm fairly certain you can buy a flashed TB3 card that will work without Opencore, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks for the feedback.

I think 48GB RAM should be plenty for LRC and PS to share? My PS files are rarely over 5GB, with 20-30 layers (I shoot composite architecture on a 50MP Fujifilm GFX 50S, but may upgrade to the 100MP camera at some point).

I may have missed this, but it sounds like you're saying I cannot install the Titan Ridge TB3 controller without installing OpenCore?

My main use for TB3 would be to a new backup RAID, and since it's only for backup, maybe I should just add a USB3 controller (which one?) instead, for simplicity/reliability and avoid OpenCore for now?

I'm also wondering if a faster GPU (than the RX580) would improve PS/LRC at all, but I want to see how the RAM and Sonnet 4x4 improve things first (may want an 8k monitor at some point, which would mean a new GPU).

Thanks again for your input!

A word on TB3 Titan Ridge / Open Core:

Completely correcgt, you actually indeed can purchase an already flashed Titan Ridge TB3 card on E-Bay. It comes with the installed jumper cable and most other cables neccessary to run the card in your MP 5.1. I did have one of those cards for a very short while. However you still need to install and hack your system with the Open Core process, described on this Forum. Unfortunately, I did not had the endurance to follow through this looonnng software hack. After a view tries and errors I packed it up and put it back on e-Bay. Be informed, you should feel comfortable to edit terminal tasks and a whole other type of hacks to activate it, including numerous restarts. I decided against it because there is also a lot of fineprint and numerous other software landmines on Apples side. Such as boot problems with PCIe card SSDs. Out of this experience I can assure you, your sonnet NVME SSD card will not be able to boot well under Open Core. It works only with SATA SSDs. Read the forum Open Core thread befor you purchase it.

Speed Reality Check:

You will NOT get full TB3 speeds, even if you follow through the software hacks, neccessary to install it on your MP 5.1. It will be bottlenecked by the older PCIe ports on your mainboard. This means, you need to make a decision about your focus why you need a TB3 controller. For some nice TB3 periferals, it might make very much sense because they come with that TB3 port only. In terms of speed for your Raid backup, it might be a different story. Good USB-C PCIe cards deliver TB-1 speeds. So this means the difference between "TB1-USB-C-speed" and a slowed down "TB3-Titan-Ridge-homebrew-speed-solution" is the actual argument here.
You decide.

My current USB-C card I use:

USB 3.1 Card - 5-Port PCIe USB C&A + IDC - USB 3.0 Cards | Add-on Cards & Peripherals | StarTech.com

USB 3.1 PCIe Card - 5 Port - USB 3.1 10Gbps - 1x USB-C, 2x USB-A + 1x 2 Port IDC 5Gbps - USB-C Card - USB 3.1 Controller - PCI Express USB 3.1 Card

www.startech.com

A word on GPU's:

I used to have an AMD Vega 64, Vega 56 and a Vega VII (my sig) via Pixlas Cable in my system. I had the Vega 7 for about 1,5 years in my system till this christmas. Unfortunately I do have a complete different usercase. However, the Vega VII is the best card out there you can possibly get. The difference between all other cards is stunning. Since they stopped the production and the card became a rare collectors item in the meantime, it becomes harder to get. I did sell my card about two month ago, 20 bucks below my purchasing price of 709 Euros here in Germany. My reason was to go back to a Win10-MacOS Hybrid system with a bootable RX580 from MacVid cards that can boot Windows from scratch, - without OpenCore.
Also I wanted to mod it with a AIO Watercooler. Now, what to do in your case and how big is the differnce between the RX580 Watercooled setup and a Vega7 setup? I think in your case the Vega 7 setup would make a differnce if you could enable hardware acceleration and run Davinci Resolve. For that you would not need Open Core and you could maintain booting from your desired Sonnet NVME card. I am however not sure how much it will speed up PS and LightRoom in your case. I really don't. Maybe someone else in the forum can chip in here regarding PS/LR.
Just for kicks, here is a pic from the Watercooler setup, just in case anyone is interested. Its nice and quiet, because the I/O crest got the low noise fan resistor mod as well.

 

[SamB_]

Thanks for the reply. That's a 'cool' looking setup... But for me, my primary consideration on all mods is reliability; The more I read, water cooling is just not something I want to risk, since 'there's always a chance' it will leak.

I think I may try adding a fan or two to help bring the temps down a bit by way of this method and see how it's performing overall. It sounds like it will help prevent the RAM from being throttled, and overall that looks to be about as far as you can go without adding water cooling (and it can plug into an unused Superdrive power supply). And it's cheap.

If I were doing heavy/frequent video editing, I might take the risk, but Lightroom Classic and Photoshop should be snappy enough without it, at least until the new 'm1x' options become available (currently projected for Q3 2021).

The more I read about Open Core, it's not an attractive option for me, as the whole point of this upgrade path is to help me work faster. I cannot afford time spent on troubleshooting, I just need it to 'always work' without sacrificing time to troubleshooting.