Buy a MacBook w/Touchbar (trust me)

futurejetblackowner

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Oct 24, 2016
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Apple and other third parties will utilize the technology far more in the future, Apple doesn’t like admitting they are wrong. One they do do is adapt to the climate and set the standard.

I guarantee in 2-3 years, everyone will be saying “the touchbar is essential to the mac” also the touchbar version are faster and more efficient.


To plan devils advocate, let’s say they remove the touchbar..you now own a niche item that some apple fanatic/Tech collector will pay a higher price for when you re-sell it. Thank me later ;)
 

lec0rsaire

macrumors 68000
Feb 23, 2017
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They did admit they got the MacPro trashcan wrong. So I am hoping they do the same with the touch bar.
They didn't get it wrong though. I don't know if people are turned off by the premium for the TouchBar more than the TouchBar itself. Apple could've made it a truly optional feature but of course most people wouldn't pay extra for it which defeats the purpose of manufacturing it in the first place.

You can still default to the function row on an app by app basis: Keyboard/Shortcuts/Function Keys/+. It is really so much more useful to have dynamic buttons and options instead of static controls. Of course some programs implement Touch Bar better than others but after a year and a half I would never go back to a MBP without it. And TouchID (power button) is awesome.
 

Closingracer

macrumors 68040
Jul 13, 2010
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No. We (developers) will not say that. We want shortcuts to have (haptic) feedback and not having to get mad about the randomly hit Esc!

But clearly Apple is moving away from the "pro" users.
[doublepost=1528238780][/doublepost]
They did admit they got the MacPro trashcan wrong. So I am hoping they do the same with the touch bar.

They won't and I hope they don't TBH. I love it. Touch ID is awesome as well.
 

TiggrToo

macrumors 68020
Aug 24, 2017
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Out there...way out there
It's been two years now since the touchbar made it's apperence. In all that two years, how many external keywords feature it?

The Touchbar is so 'pro' you can't even get it after dropping $14,000 or more on the latest iMac Pro :eek:
 
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groove-agent

macrumors 65816
Jan 13, 2006
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Ok, I'll buy a MBP w/ Touch Bar if you replace it when the keyboard fails. I wouldn't recommend this laptop until they fix it first.

The touch bar could be a cool addition. However they shouldn't replace the tactile function keys, but somehow put it above the function keys. I still use Windows either via Parallels or bootcamp and thus still need them. Also, I use the ESC key all the time.

Also they could increase the usefulness of the Touch Bar by having it work as an output device as much as an input device. Have it work like a stock ticker, or notification area when not being used as an input device.

Apple and other third parties will utilize the technology far more in the future, Apple doesn’t like admitting they are wrong. One they do do is adapt to the climate and set the standard.

I guarantee in 2-3 years, everyone will be saying “the touchbar is essential to the mac” also the touchbar version are faster and more efficient.


To plan devils advocate, let’s say they remove the touchbar..you now own a niche item that some apple fanatic/Tech collector will pay a higher price for when you re-sell it. Thank me later ;)
 

Hadron

macrumors regular
Apr 13, 2010
224
127
They didn't get it wrong though. I don't know if people are turned off by the premium for the TouchBar more than the TouchBar itself. Apple could've made it a truly optional feature but of course most people wouldn't pay extra for it which defeats the purpose of manufacturing it in the first place.
Another way of looking at that is that they don't have the confidence that people would actually consider it worth having. Because if they really believed what they say about it they would also believe that people would choose it.

The touch bar is a trade-off: you gain flexibility, but you lose tactile feedback and it's harder to use without looking. And the downside of being able to do different things when running different apps is that you lose the consistency of the same control always being in the same place whatever you are doing. So you trade-off flexibility against usability, and different people will have different priorities here.

For that matter, if Apple really believe in it why has it not appeared on any of their external keyboards so far? If I'm using my laptop in the office I will be using an external monitor and keyboard, and if the touchbar isn't on that keyboard as well it's unlikely to become an important part of my workflow.

Also they could increase the usefulness of the Touch Bar by having it work as an output device as much as an input device. Have it work like a stock ticker, or notification area when not being used as an input device.
Except that if it's displaying information then it's not showing the buttons, which implies an extra interaction to bring them up before you can use them. And you want information displays to be consistent, so you don't really want notifications to appear there in some circumstances and not in others. I understand where you are coming from, but I think the usability needs careful thought.
 

groove-agent

macrumors 65816
Jan 13, 2006
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That's a valid point. I'm thinking that you can touch the touch bar to turn off the notifications, much like a screen saver. Or, set the notifications to disable for certain apps etc. Or again, using the screen saver analogy, if you don't touch the bar after a certain length of time, it would go back to notifications.


Except that if it's displaying information then it's not showing the buttons, which implies an extra interaction to bring them up before you can use them. And you want information displays to be consistent, so you don't really want notifications to appear there in some circumstances and not in others. I understand where you are coming from, but I think the usability needs careful thought.
 

futurejetblackowner

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Oct 24, 2016
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Yes they did.

Both the MP 6,1 and the touchbar. How many new "features" introduced during the keynote even mentioned, let alone used, the touchbar? Right - zero. It's a frippery.
If you want the faster computer, you will need the touchbar. You’re also not taking the collectors value it will have if Apple discontinues it
 

Pangalactic

macrumors 6502
Nov 28, 2016
428
947
The touchbar is a dead end, and you can see Apple knows it as well: it's not present on ANY Mac save the MBP. Imac keyboards don't have it, Imac Pro keyboards dont have it (Apple probably realized people would buy $20 Logitech keyboards instead), the smaller Air/MB don't have it.

And, as people have already mentioned, not a single announcement from Apple during WWDC about the "touch of genius".
 
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futurejetblackowner

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Oct 24, 2016
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The touchbar is a dead end, and you can see Apple knows it as well: it's not present on ANY Mac save the MBP. Imac keyboards don't have it, Imac Pro keyboards dont have it (Apple probably realized people would buy $20 Logitech keyboards instead), the smaller Air/MB don't have it.

And, as people have already mentioned, not a single announcement from Apple during WWDC about the "touch of genius".
If I'm wrong, I'll be laughing to the bank when some tech hoarder is paying me a fortune for this niche, rare computer.
 

futurejetblackowner

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Oct 24, 2016
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Don't hold your breath. No one has offered me a fortune for my 1984 original Mac.
According to Cultofmac.com, original Mac computers sell at auction at a price of “$750 to 1,000.” Vintagemacmuseum.com writes that, “If you have an working Mac 128k you can probably get $1,000 on eBay.” Plus, the value grows if you’ve still got the original packaging in good condition. Wired.com reported in 2002that a well-maintained Mac 128k box—and only the box—was sold at auction for $500. Not bad, considering new iMac computers start at $1,299.
 
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lec0rsaire

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Feb 23, 2017
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It's been two years now since the touchbar made it's apperence. In all that two years, how many external keywords feature it?

The Touchbar is so 'pro' you can't even get it after dropping $14,000 or more on the latest iMac Pro :eek:
The problem is that TouchID requires a paired T1 chip on the logic board. They could sell a Touch Bar keyboard but it wouldn't have TouchID. Also such a keyboard would cost $300-350 or so which makes it ridiculously expensive and unlikely to sell well. That custom OLED display isn't cheap. I'm sure they'll figure something out in the future or implement something like Windows does with Fingerprint ID but Apple Pay support is only possible with the T1/T2.
 

leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,981
5,488
I guarantee in 2-3 years, everyone will be saying “the touchbar is essential to the mac”
Well, I don't know if Touch Bar is essential tot eh Mac, but in 10.14, it becomes infinitely more useful since it can be used to launch contextual automator workflows. Which is kind of a big deal.
[doublepost=1528320755][/doublepost]
No. We (developers) will not say that. We want shortcuts to have (haptic) feedback and not having to get mad about the randomly hit Esc!
Your shortcuts have haptic feedback... Its CMD+KEY. Function keys are not part of Apple's HID.
 

lec0rsaire

macrumors 68000
Feb 23, 2017
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For that matter, if Apple really believe in it why has it not appeared on any of their external keyboards so far? If I'm using my laptop in the office I will be using an external monitor and keyboard, and if the touchbar isn't on that keyboard as well it's unlikely to become an important part of my workflow.
The problem is TouchID. The button is paired to the T1 chip on the logic board. For example, if the logic board is replaced TouchID will not work at all. So if the logic board is replaced the Touch Bar must be replaced as well. A Touch Bar Magic Keyboard would be really expensive and Apple won't release a half-assed Touch Bar keyboard that lacks TouchID for Apple Pay.
 

trusso

macrumors 6502
Oct 4, 2003
446
1,094
Apple and other third parties will utilize the technology far more in the future, Apple doesn’t like admitting they are wrong. One they do do is adapt to the climate and set the standard.

I guarantee in 2-3 years, everyone will be saying “the touchbar is essential to the mac” also the touchbar version are faster and more efficient.


To plan devils advocate, let’s say they remove the touchbar..you now own a niche item that some apple fanatic/Tech collector will pay a higher price for when you re-sell it. Thank me later ;)
Unfortunately, you're probably right. :confused:
 

leman

macrumors G4
Oct 14, 2008
10,981
5,488
But clearly Apple is moving away from the "pro" users.
Complete nonsense. Mojave has tons of features that cater to power users. Contextual automator workflows and improvements to Finder/QuickLook are worth gold unless of course you are pigeonholed into using a single software suite all the time (but then you are barely a power user).
[doublepost=1528321012][/doublepost]
And, as people have already mentioned, not a single announcement from Apple during WWDC about the "touch of genius".
And yet 10.14 had significant changes to the Touch Bar. The keynote was about software, not hardware, so its not unsurprising the touchbar didn't get mentioned.
 

lec0rsaire

macrumors 68000
Feb 23, 2017
1,511
1,439
Yes they did.

Both the MP 6,1 and the touchbar. How many new "features" introduced during the keynote even mentioned, let alone used, the touchbar? Right - zero. It's a frippery.
It continues to gain more support. Nearly every major program supports it already. They already spent a lot of time showing off what it can do back in the October 2016 event. Nothing much has changed and it would be a waste of time to talk about it. Apple has both user manuals and developer tutorials online. It's really up to developers to make it as useful as possible.

Of course it could be used to display information like a stock ticker, news, sports scores or whatever anyone can think of but Apple is strictly against using it as a display instead of an input device. That can't stop people from making 3rd party apps for it but it will never be something that Apple will embrace. In the beginning some guys ported PacMan, Pong and even made a piano app for it. They're all just novelties of course.

It does remain the best and most comfortable way of using emojis on the Mac and that will never really change unless they implement some pop up virtual iOS style keyboard.
 

TiggrToo

macrumors 68020
Aug 24, 2017
2,313
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Out there...way out there
The problem is that TouchID requires a paired T1 chip on the logic board. They could sell a Touch Bar keyboard but it wouldn't have TouchID. Also such a keyboard would cost $300-350 or so which makes it ridiculously expensive and unlikely to sell well. That custom OLED display isn't cheap. I'm sure they'll figure something out in the future or implement something like Windows does with Fingerprint ID but Apple Pay support is only possible with the T1/T2.
Dunno about you but if I'm dropping $15k on a new iMac then I'm not so sure I'm going to complain too much about a $350 keyboard...:D

That said, economies of scale and all that jazz.

My point was essentially though that Apple have kind of backed themselves into a bit of a corner with the Touchbar. It's too niche for many people to wait on a MacBook Pro, and to unavailable for everyone else who might want it elsewhere. It even manages to make itself somewhat redundant to anyone who wishes to use their MBP work an external keyboard...o_O
 
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