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Buy a used Mac Pro
- Thread starter Gofaster2
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I thought it pertinent to ask, as the '06 - '07 models have been gimped by Apple with the EFI32. They're still good machines, but use under OS X is becoming limited, and will get worse.
For example, video/graphics editors are best served by switching to an EFI64 based system for:
1. Ability to upgrade the graphics cards in the future (nVidia GTX285 isn't an option in the EFI32 based systems, but the HD4870 does work). Presumably, ATI will continue to use EBC based firmware, so if there's ever a 58xx version, it would as well. But EFI64 eliminates the uncertainty. For a while anyway, if/when Apple choses to go with another firmware standard to make the EFI64 based systems obsolete.
2. OS X updates after it goes exclusively K64.
But they're still good for photography or other uses that will not need future graphics card updates, or the need for K64.
As it can run Windows 64 bit versions fine (though there may be some additional steps to get it installed), they're a good Windows workstation as well.
Maybe an odd life given the system is a Mac, but it's a continued useful existance rather than wind up as waste in a recycle bin (or worse, land fill). Yep. And given Christmas shopping, their running free shipping on items they may normally not (i.e. macsales is offering free shipping on orders of $150+ USD).
You might want to upgrade the graphics card as well.
It's a nice system, and is quite an upgrade from the G5.
Okay, 8GB (4GB x 2) from macsales.com is on the way.....can I use the 2GB OEM memory as well (for a total of 10GB), or do I have to use just the 8GB?
I have to say, I'm quite envious of the prices for used Mac Pros to be had in America.
Up north, we have a slew idiots who routinely list their 2 year old Mac Pros for a few hundred dollars off from their original price. The prices are astonishingly inflated.
Up north, we have a slew idiots who routinely list their 2 year old Mac Pros for a few hundred dollars off from their original price. The prices are astonishingly inflated.
Never underestimate greed and the uninformed.
It's common enough here too though (not so much on the '06 - '07 models, but definitely on the '08's from what I've seen recently), and you have to be patient to wait for a decent deal to show up. Especially on Craig's List, as it's local (smaller). I just don't trust buying systems from eBay, as it's too easy to get burnt.
Never underestimate greed and the uninformed.
It's common enough here too though (not so much on the '06 - '07 models, but definitely on the '08's from what I've seen recently), and you have to be patient to wait for a decent deal to show up. Especially on Craig's List, as it's local (smaller). I just don't trust buying systems from eBay, as it's too easy to get burnt.
Here's the most recent example on Craig's list for Toronto:
Excellent Condition
Mac Pro - 2x2.66 GHZ Dual Core Intel Xeon
7 Gig of Rams
250 Gig Hard Drive
DVD Burner: OPTIARC DVD RW AD-7170A:
If you are interested, email me and I will send pictures
Thanks
And he wants $2800 for this!
Haha!
Never underestimate greed and the uninformed.
It's common enough here too though (not so much on the '06 - '07 models, but definitely on the '08's from what I've seen recently), and you have to be patient to wait for a decent deal to show up. Especially on Craig's List, as it's local (smaller). I just don't trust buying systems from eBay, as it's too easy to get burnt.
Craigslist has become a joke. Everytime, I'm looking to buy something, I find "as good as new" (at least that's their claim) items where the seller wants full retail (usually what they paid - not even what a good bargain hunter would pay!) In some cases, they think they are doing you a favor because you don't have to pay sales tax!!! LOL. These guys are high!
In almost all cases, Craigslist compels people to buy new. I even find other buyers posting ads in Craigslist to hit search results that say "Don't buy XYZ for $1000, you can buy it online at something.com for $800!!!". The sad thing is that sellers must be getting ridiculous sums for their goods or the prices would come down to more reasonable levels.
My only reason for mentioning CL, is the ability to inspect and verify operation prior to payment. Another member's recently been burnt on eBay (false description of working system, when the board was toast). I don't buy off eBay for systems, out of fear of a lemon and being ripped off.Craigslist has become a joke. Everytime, I'm looking to buy something, I find "as good as new" (at least that's their claim) items where the seller wants full retail (usually what they paid - not even what a good bargain hunter would pay!) In some cases, they think they are doing you a favor because you don't have to pay sales tax!!! LOL. These guys are high!
In almost all cases, Craigslist compels people to buy new. I even find other buyers posting ads in Craigslist to hit search results that say "Don't buy XYZ for $1000, you can buy it online at something.com for $800!!!". The sad thing is that sellers must be getting ridiculous sums for their goods or the prices would come down to more reasonable levels.
Actual SDDR Speed 2009
I've been doing some reading and I noticed that Dell and AVADirect computer sellers all state that Intel Xeon chips using 4.8 GT/s QPI FSB speeds will default to using 800 Mhz speed RAM in the system.
I also noticed that the only Intel 3500 series chips that use 2.66 and 2.93 speed are the W3520 (2.66) and the W3540 (2.93) chips. Both these chips utilize 4.8 GT/s QPI (quick path interconnect) technology. And, Intel lists only that QPI speed in the FSB speed column of their chip selector page (in place of where other chips have 1066 or 1333Mhz). Intel's charts imply that the Mac Pro 2009 Nehalem single chip machines rely upon 4.8 GT/s as the primary FSB speed. If the info from the computer builders' websites is true then Mac Pro 2009 single CPU 2.66 and 2.93 computers are actually only 800 Mhz memory capable machines -- not the DDR3 1066 Mhz machines as is implied in all the advertising.
According to prominent computer builder's websites such as Dell, it's not until you use the 3.02 and faster Xeon QUAD chips such as the Intel W3570 3.20 Ghz that you get to utilize 1066 memory. Otherwise it defaults back to 800 memory speed.
What do people think of that? Are the Nehalem chip Mac Pros still better than the 2008 Mac Pros which advertise only 800 speed memory? Are my conclusions even true, or am I missing something? Is the QPI speed a different CPU-to-memory path than the standard 3-channel path to the memory modules? If that's true then it's more confusing. But, the Intel website lists only the 4.8 GT/s QPI speeds in the column for these CPU's in place of where the normal 1066 Mhz speeds are for the other chips. So, it seems that the QPI speeds actually are the FSB speeds used to access RAM.
To make it more confusing....on page 9 of the "Intel Xeon 3500 series Datasheet" there is a chart which shows the CPU to DDR system memory as being 3 paths, while it shows a separate path for QPI memory access (from CPU, but doesn't show where it goes to). If that's the case (that the QPI is only a secondary path to DDR3) then the Intel specification charts should still list the normal FSB speeds in the charts instead of only the QPI speeds. It becomes confusing to figure out what DDR speed is being used here. Is QPI the sole path for FSB and DDR3? Or, is it just an augmented secondary pathway from CPU to DDR3? It appears to be the primary path from everything I've seen.
http://www.intel.com/Assets/en_US/PDF/datasheet/321332.pdf
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLBEW#
It seems it's a play on words with Apple and Intel. The 3500 series chips are capable of 1066 memory speeds....but, only if you get the fastest and more expensive CPU chips. In other words only some of the 3500 series chips use 10666 Mhz FSB speeds to access DDR3. But, the lower-priced single-chip 2009 Mac Pros 2.66 and 2.93 models default to 800 Mhz memory speeds. They are 1066 Mhz capable, sure, if you buy a 3.20 Ghz CPU and switch it.
I could be totally wrong. I'm just telling you what I see so far. When you go to build a Dell or avadirect.com machine they tell you this information when you go to select your CPU option for the machine. Apple does not provide those notices or other faster CPU options.
If all this is true then there are two main weaknesses of Mac Pros:
1) greatly limited graphic card selection from Nvidia Quadro for use in Autodesk and other 3D apps
2) inability to choose from other CPU options that utilize a faster FSB supporting 1066 Mhz DDR3
Dell offers nvidia Quadro 1700, 1800 and 3800 amongst other graphic card options. They also offer the other Intel 3500 series chip options that support faster FSB speeds and faster QPI speeds which support DDR3 1066 Mhz and faster RAM.
avadirect.com website:
I've been doing some reading and I noticed that Dell and AVADirect computer sellers all state that Intel Xeon chips using 4.8 GT/s QPI FSB speeds will default to using 800 Mhz speed RAM in the system.
I also noticed that the only Intel 3500 series chips that use 2.66 and 2.93 speed are the W3520 (2.66) and the W3540 (2.93) chips. Both these chips utilize 4.8 GT/s QPI (quick path interconnect) technology. And, Intel lists only that QPI speed in the FSB speed column of their chip selector page (in place of where other chips have 1066 or 1333Mhz). Intel's charts imply that the Mac Pro 2009 Nehalem single chip machines rely upon 4.8 GT/s as the primary FSB speed. If the info from the computer builders' websites is true then Mac Pro 2009 single CPU 2.66 and 2.93 computers are actually only 800 Mhz memory capable machines -- not the DDR3 1066 Mhz machines as is implied in all the advertising.
According to prominent computer builder's websites such as Dell, it's not until you use the 3.02 and faster Xeon QUAD chips such as the Intel W3570 3.20 Ghz that you get to utilize 1066 memory. Otherwise it defaults back to 800 memory speed.
What do people think of that? Are the Nehalem chip Mac Pros still better than the 2008 Mac Pros which advertise only 800 speed memory? Are my conclusions even true, or am I missing something? Is the QPI speed a different CPU-to-memory path than the standard 3-channel path to the memory modules? If that's true then it's more confusing. But, the Intel website lists only the 4.8 GT/s QPI speeds in the column for these CPU's in place of where the normal 1066 Mhz speeds are for the other chips. So, it seems that the QPI speeds actually are the FSB speeds used to access RAM.
To make it more confusing....on page 9 of the "Intel Xeon 3500 series Datasheet" there is a chart which shows the CPU to DDR system memory as being 3 paths, while it shows a separate path for QPI memory access (from CPU, but doesn't show where it goes to). If that's the case (that the QPI is only a secondary path to DDR3) then the Intel specification charts should still list the normal FSB speeds in the charts instead of only the QPI speeds. It becomes confusing to figure out what DDR speed is being used here. Is QPI the sole path for FSB and DDR3? Or, is it just an augmented secondary pathway from CPU to DDR3? It appears to be the primary path from everything I've seen.
http://www.intel.com/Assets/en_US/PDF/datasheet/321332.pdf
http://processorfinder.intel.com/details.aspx?sSpec=SLBEW#
It seems it's a play on words with Apple and Intel. The 3500 series chips are capable of 1066 memory speeds....but, only if you get the fastest and more expensive CPU chips. In other words only some of the 3500 series chips use 10666 Mhz FSB speeds to access DDR3. But, the lower-priced single-chip 2009 Mac Pros 2.66 and 2.93 models default to 800 Mhz memory speeds. They are 1066 Mhz capable, sure, if you buy a 3.20 Ghz CPU and switch it.
I could be totally wrong. I'm just telling you what I see so far. When you go to build a Dell or avadirect.com machine they tell you this information when you go to select your CPU option for the machine. Apple does not provide those notices or other faster CPU options.
If all this is true then there are two main weaknesses of Mac Pros:
1) greatly limited graphic card selection from Nvidia Quadro for use in Autodesk and other 3D apps
2) inability to choose from other CPU options that utilize a faster FSB supporting 1066 Mhz DDR3
Dell offers nvidia Quadro 1700, 1800 and 3800 amongst other graphic card options. They also offer the other Intel 3500 series chip options that support faster FSB speeds and faster QPI speeds which support DDR3 1066 Mhz and faster RAM.
avadirect.com website:
In the PC side, you need access to the firmware to change this (OC functions, & change the memory muliplier - frequency settings on some).
For Macs, you can't. But it seems Apple went in and fixed it in the EFI firmware to allow the memory to operate at 1066MHz, as in some cases, the parts can actually run 1333MHz, had they stuck to the SPD implementation.
They're still capable of additional bandwidth, given triple channel operation. But ATM, there's precious little software that can utilize it.
The IMC (Integrated Memory Controller) is included on the die (3 channels), and is separate from the QPI (Quick Path Interconnect), which is used to attach the CPU to the chipset.
FSB is gone, and DMI is only used to attach the ICH10R (SATA controller) to the chipset (i.e. Southbridge to Northbridge connection).
Graphics
Well, if FSB is gone then I guess that I need to read some newer computer books to help evaluate these newer technologies.
So, if what nanofrog says is true, then Mac Pro looks like a better deal than I thought. Comparably equipped Dells are actually very expensive when built to order with equal CPU and memory (ie around $2700.00 and higher). I tried the Dell computer builder feature. It came to $2260.00 for a Dell T3500 with the Intel W 3520 2.66 CPU, 3GB DDR3, Nvidia Quadro NVS (low end card), 750GB HD (only 16MB cache), and 16X DVD +- RW drive. But, if it only defaults to 800 speed DDR3 due to the chip firmware speed then you'd need to get the 5500 series Intel 2.66 CPU which adds $1,110.00 for a grand total of $3,370.00.
But, I don't know how difficult it is to get the firmware update on the W3520 chip that is apparently used in the 2009 Mac Pro 2.66. If you could get the Dell with the same chip as the Mac Pro and then get the chip updated to support 1066 DDR3 speeds then the Dell would cost the same as the 2009 Mac Pro 2.66 single quad at $2,270.00. But, if you couldn't get the firmware thing going then you'd have to go with the 5500 series chip at 2.66 speed costing you $1,110.00 more for the Dell computer than the Mac Pro equally equipped (approximate).
The last potential Mac Pro weakness is the graphic card choices for 3D workstation use (compared to building a PC from Dell or others). Dell offers Nvidia Quadro FX 580, 1800, 3800, and 4800 as well as ATI V8700 and others.
If you get the newest advanced Nvidia Quadro 4800 for Mac ... are the drivers written well enough to utilize the card fully on the OSX side of a dual boot? Or, are they maximized and optimized primarily for someone to boot into Windows 7 or whatever Windows? I've read that Mac writes terrible Nvidia Quadro drivers. But, are they terrible only on the Mac OSX side of a dual boot OS? Were the drivers magically rewritten to be fully optimized on OSX? Or, is the Mac support for Quadro 4800 merely based upon using existing Windows driver code -- with Apple assuming that the Quadro will be used only for Autodesk on Windows 7 ?
And, is there some way to rig a lower priced Nvidia 1800, 3000, or 3800 card into the Mac to utilize as a second card for the Winows side only (ie for using Autodesk products). Would it work really badly if it did work?
And, if anyone has any experience, how well does the iMac 27" perform using Autodesk products (3DSMax) with it's built in gaming cards? Some graphics and photography semi-professionals like me are wondering whether that $2100.00 could just go to a nice iMac 27" instead of the Mac Pro for intermediate photography and 3DSMax use. I'm pretty sure that a dedicated Autodesk professional wouldn't use anything but a Quadro 3800 or better for Autodesk. But, how well do the iMac 27" graphic options perform (ie how many parts can be open or scenes rendered)?
Well, if FSB is gone then I guess that I need to read some newer computer books to help evaluate these newer technologies.
So, if what nanofrog says is true, then Mac Pro looks like a better deal than I thought. Comparably equipped Dells are actually very expensive when built to order with equal CPU and memory (ie around $2700.00 and higher). I tried the Dell computer builder feature. It came to $2260.00 for a Dell T3500 with the Intel W 3520 2.66 CPU, 3GB DDR3, Nvidia Quadro NVS (low end card), 750GB HD (only 16MB cache), and 16X DVD +- RW drive. But, if it only defaults to 800 speed DDR3 due to the chip firmware speed then you'd need to get the 5500 series Intel 2.66 CPU which adds $1,110.00 for a grand total of $3,370.00.
But, I don't know how difficult it is to get the firmware update on the W3520 chip that is apparently used in the 2009 Mac Pro 2.66. If you could get the Dell with the same chip as the Mac Pro and then get the chip updated to support 1066 DDR3 speeds then the Dell would cost the same as the 2009 Mac Pro 2.66 single quad at $2,270.00. But, if you couldn't get the firmware thing going then you'd have to go with the 5500 series chip at 2.66 speed costing you $1,110.00 more for the Dell computer than the Mac Pro equally equipped (approximate).
The last potential Mac Pro weakness is the graphic card choices for 3D workstation use (compared to building a PC from Dell or others). Dell offers Nvidia Quadro FX 580, 1800, 3800, and 4800 as well as ATI V8700 and others.
If you get the newest advanced Nvidia Quadro 4800 for Mac ... are the drivers written well enough to utilize the card fully on the OSX side of a dual boot? Or, are they maximized and optimized primarily for someone to boot into Windows 7 or whatever Windows? I've read that Mac writes terrible Nvidia Quadro drivers. But, are they terrible only on the Mac OSX side of a dual boot OS? Were the drivers magically rewritten to be fully optimized on OSX? Or, is the Mac support for Quadro 4800 merely based upon using existing Windows driver code -- with Apple assuming that the Quadro will be used only for Autodesk on Windows 7 ?
And, is there some way to rig a lower priced Nvidia 1800, 3000, or 3800 card into the Mac to utilize as a second card for the Winows side only (ie for using Autodesk products). Would it work really badly if it did work?
And, if anyone has any experience, how well does the iMac 27" perform using Autodesk products (3DSMax) with it's built in gaming cards? Some graphics and photography semi-professionals like me are wondering whether that $2100.00 could just go to a nice iMac 27" instead of the Mac Pro for intermediate photography and 3DSMax use. I'm pretty sure that a dedicated Autodesk professional wouldn't use anything but a Quadro 3800 or better for Autodesk. But, how well do the iMac 27" graphic options perform (ie how many parts can be open or scenes rendered)?
It's actually a little more confusing that what you might think, as QPI only exists on the LGA1366 parts. The LGA1156 (i5 & i7-8xx) parts retain DMI to the chipset (but still have the IMC).
As per the Dell, I'm not sure what you're looking at, but they're less expensive. I've seen configurations that are ~$1kUSD cheaper on web pricing (T3500 w/ same CPU P/N as the base model MP Quad, and T5500 for the Octad base).
Also, if you call, you'll get better prices. So are Sun's offerings when looking at the same CPU P/N's in the base models. Assuming you're running Windows, you can actually get the full improvements out of the CPU's selected as well, as Apple's gimped the memory to 1066 regardless of the CPU (you lose the ability to run 1333MHz on parts that are capable of it).
Apple's been weak with graphics cards from the introduction of the Intel based systems, unfortunately. The PC side is better in this regard, and are less expensive (assuming there's a direct Mac counterpart, such as the HD4870 or GTX285, and Quadro 4800 on the professional side).
If you go with the Quadro 4800 to use in a Mac under Windows, then the drivers are the same as any other Quadro 4800 under Windows (for the specific version).
And YES, if you only need a specific card for Windows, you can run it in a MP for Windows Only due to BIOS emulation in the EFI firmware. Ideally, you'd want a system with 64bit firmware though, so an '08 or newer. Especially if you use the Mac edition of the Quadro 4800.
Here's a recent review of the 4800 under OSX...
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/12/a-second-look-at-the-nvidia-quadro-fx-4800-mac-edition.ars
I don't think it was all that compelling for the money...
http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/12/a-second-look-at-the-nvidia-quadro-fx-4800-mac-edition.ars
I don't think it was all that compelling for the money...
Under OS X, NO. But I'm getting the impression the OP is going to be using such a card under Windows, where they'll perform as expected, PROVIDED the software can utilize the card. AutoDesk's software typically is.
Video Card
Thanks for the link VirtualRain. Since Maya is probably the most similar to 3DSMax as far as type of graphics needs then it looks like Quadro graphics in a dual boot Mac Pro will only perform half as fast on the OSX side, but fine on the Windows side.
As far as prices for the computers I was using the feature to configure a new computer on Dell's website using the "Large Business Enterprise" computer option. The home and small business options only have Vostro, Optiplex, Precision, etc. I came up with pretty high prices that I quoted earlier when I carefully selected CPU's and memory to match the Mac Pro 2009.
Maybe there is special pricing for telephone orders, I don't know. They'd probably get a pushy salesperson trying to figure out if he can sell you 100 computers for your big enterprise that doesn't exist.
The Dell computer below would cost $2,403.00 at Dell's website. the default CPU would have been only a dual-core CPU. That's why it looks so cheap at first glance. I had to go with the X5550 CPU because it was the cheapest one that had the faster QPI speed to support the 1066 DDR (rather than 800). That's the main reason for the extra cash. If you get the same CPU as the Mac Pro then the computer won't support the 1066 RAM speed -- so it's not a comparable system then.
Dell Precision T3500, CMT, 85 Percent Efficient Power Supply
Genuine Windows® 7 Professional Bonus- Windows XP Professional downgrade
No Energy Star
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® X5550 2.66GHz, 8M L3, 6.4GT/s Turbo $$$$UPGRADED OPTION
Mini-Tower Chassis Configuration
3GB, 1066MHz,DDR3 SDRAM, ECC (3 DIMMS)
3 Year Basic Limited Warranty and 3 Year NBD On-Site Service - Important Information
256MB NVIDIA® Quadro® NVS 295, 2MON, 2 DP w/ 1 DP to DVI Adapter
C1 All SATA drives, No RAID for 1 Hard Drive
Integrated Intel chipset SATA 3.0Gb/s controller
250GB SATA 3.0Gb/s with NCQ and 8MB DataBurst Cache™
16X DVD-ROM with Cyberlink Power DVD™
No Monitor
No Floppy Drive and No Media Card Reader
Resource DVD - contains Diagnostics and Drivers
My Accessories
Windows 7 Upgrade Web Site
Important Product and Service Details
I still don't fully understand how one would get the 3520 chips updated to work with 1066 DDR on a PC desktop. If it's complicated then I really don't want to waste the time anyway.
Thanks for the link VirtualRain. Since Maya is probably the most similar to 3DSMax as far as type of graphics needs then it looks like Quadro graphics in a dual boot Mac Pro will only perform half as fast on the OSX side, but fine on the Windows side.
As far as prices for the computers I was using the feature to configure a new computer on Dell's website using the "Large Business Enterprise" computer option. The home and small business options only have Vostro, Optiplex, Precision, etc. I came up with pretty high prices that I quoted earlier when I carefully selected CPU's and memory to match the Mac Pro 2009.
Maybe there is special pricing for telephone orders, I don't know. They'd probably get a pushy salesperson trying to figure out if he can sell you 100 computers for your big enterprise that doesn't exist.
The Dell computer below would cost $2,403.00 at Dell's website. the default CPU would have been only a dual-core CPU. That's why it looks so cheap at first glance. I had to go with the X5550 CPU because it was the cheapest one that had the faster QPI speed to support the 1066 DDR (rather than 800). That's the main reason for the extra cash. If you get the same CPU as the Mac Pro then the computer won't support the 1066 RAM speed -- so it's not a comparable system then.
Dell Precision T3500, CMT, 85 Percent Efficient Power Supply
Genuine Windows® 7 Professional Bonus- Windows XP Professional downgrade
No Energy Star
Quad Core Intel® Xeon® X5550 2.66GHz, 8M L3, 6.4GT/s Turbo $$$$UPGRADED OPTION
Mini-Tower Chassis Configuration
3GB, 1066MHz,DDR3 SDRAM, ECC (3 DIMMS)
3 Year Basic Limited Warranty and 3 Year NBD On-Site Service - Important Information
256MB NVIDIA® Quadro® NVS 295, 2MON, 2 DP w/ 1 DP to DVI Adapter
C1 All SATA drives, No RAID for 1 Hard Drive
Integrated Intel chipset SATA 3.0Gb/s controller
250GB SATA 3.0Gb/s with NCQ and 8MB DataBurst Cache™
16X DVD-ROM with Cyberlink Power DVD™
No Monitor
No Floppy Drive and No Media Card Reader
Resource DVD - contains Diagnostics and Drivers
My Accessories
Windows 7 Upgrade Web Site
Important Product and Service Details
I still don't fully understand how one would get the 3520 chips updated to work with 1066 DDR on a PC desktop. If it's complicated then I really don't want to waste the time anyway.
Yep. So it's really only useful on the Windows side, as so far, OS X software hasn't been adapted to use the Quadro 4800 Mac ed. yet.
The Precision T3500 = Xeon SP system (35xx parts), Precision T5500 = Xeon DP system (55xx parts). So they're both professional units.
Comparing the base models as closely as possible, they were cheaper, even with the web pricing. If you call, it will be cheaper, and no, you aren't forced to purchase more than 1 system. Nor have they ever been pushy with me about it at all. Technical Support is also really good, as it's treated differently than the consumer systems. Big difference actually.
Ordering is easier over the phone as well, as you can make sure you're getting what you want. They'll send an invoice to you via email prior to payment for review. That way you can check every detail, including the OS version (i.e. 32 or 64 bit OS, which they will offer on either of those systems, not just 32bit versions).It depends on whether or not you have access to the firmware settings. OC capable boards are easy. Even non OC boards would be possible if they allow you to set either the memory mulitplier or frequency (just another way to set the multiplier; divide frequency by BCLK = multiplier used to achieve the desired frequency).I still don't fully understand how one would get the 3520 chips updated to work with 1066 DDR on a PC desktop. If it's complicated then I really don't want to waste the time anyway.
The Precision T3500 = Xeon SP system (35xx parts), Precision T5500 = Xeon DP system (55xx parts). So they're both professional units.
Thanks for the info. I know it seems a lot of fuss over maybe nothing....but, isn't it true that those standard config Dells would only have access to 800 Mhz DDR based on what everyone is saying about CPU's with 4.8 GT/s speed such as that 3520 CPU (non-modified) on a PC.
If that's the case then those Dells are being cheated out of faster DDR and thus not really comparable machines to ones like either the Mac Pro Nehalem or 5550 equipped Dell. So, you'd have to get the 5550 chip (or similarly priced 3500 series 3.20 Ghz CPU) to get the comparable system -- thus raising the prices substantially even with single CPU systems.
But, only a real world test would determine if all this fuss over DDR speed has any importance. Any answers on this? Dell with 3520 Nehalem single 2.66 CPU (possibly 800 DDR limited) vs Mac Pro Nehalem with same 2.66 CPU (1066 DDR enjoyment). Does the difference matter in real world use??
According to the specifications page, it's either 1066 or 1333MHz.
I'd recommend giving them a call, and get it "straight from the horse's mouth" as the old saying goes.
What you're wanting to do though, I'm wondering if the faster CPU might not be a bad idea anyway (from what you've posted, and I've been able to infer from it; i.e. AutoDesk + professional graphics cards).
throttle
http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_configurator.asp?PRID=13547
According to online sources where you custom build a computer such as Dell and avadirect.com --- when you go to choose your CPU there is a warning that states that using CPU's with 4.8 GTR/s or slower memory access speeds will by default limit your DDR speed to 800 Mhz. It is not mentioned by Intel that I've seen. But, I would trust the Dell and other builders of such a warning...I think.
As a series the 3500 series supports 1066. But, the individual CPU models seem to vary in their DDR support depending on what model you buy.
From avadirect.com website:
Dell says the same thing as above.
The Intel 3520 (2.66 Ghz) and 3540 (2.93) are both 4.8 Gt/s. It's not until you get to the 3570 (3.20) and 3580 (3.33 Ghz) speeds that you get the 6.4 GT/s. But, they're also huge upgrades in money too. That's where I'm getting my ideas that equally equipped Dells are more money than equally equipped Mac Pros. Unless the whole 800Mhz throttling is just a sham.
Stay tuned for my new theory about whether computers actually save time in our lives --- considering I just spent 4 hours wondering about something that might not matter in the real world.
http://www.avadirect.com/product_details_configurator.asp?PRID=13547
According to online sources where you custom build a computer such as Dell and avadirect.com --- when you go to choose your CPU there is a warning that states that using CPU's with 4.8 GTR/s or slower memory access speeds will by default limit your DDR speed to 800 Mhz. It is not mentioned by Intel that I've seen. But, I would trust the Dell and other builders of such a warning...I think.
As a series the 3500 series supports 1066. But, the individual CPU models seem to vary in their DDR support depending on what model you buy.
From avadirect.com website:
Dell says the same thing as above.
The Intel 3520 (2.66 Ghz) and 3540 (2.93) are both 4.8 Gt/s. It's not until you get to the 3570 (3.20) and 3580 (3.33 Ghz) speeds that you get the 6.4 GT/s. But, they're also huge upgrades in money too. That's where I'm getting my ideas that equally equipped Dells are more money than equally equipped Mac Pros. Unless the whole 800Mhz throttling is just a sham.
Stay tuned for my new theory about whether computers actually save time in our lives --- considering I just spent 4 hours wondering about something that might not matter in the real world.
I thought that too when I bought my used 2008 Mac Pro (in April 09), but now it feels like it's always been mine. It was in mint condition, had the retail box, etc.
Wipe the drive and it's new again. Plus I've poured $500 in upgrades into it so it's a lot meaner than it was when I got it.
It's going to depend on the firmware settings in the board used. That's been my point, and why you should do the research to find out.
Those with OC settings can get past this issue, as you have access to such settings. You may not on a vendor specific board, and why you need to call about each and every system you're interested in.
You might also want to take a look at Sun and HP. The Sun's Ultra 27 may not have this issue, as they put some time into making sure it's a speedy system, and the prices are decent as well. Not sure about the specifics on this with HP, but it's worth looking into IMO.
Research is free afterall...
Got my refurb 2008 3.2 octo from Apple, and as a nice surprise, it came with 10.5 installed rather than the 10.6 per the website. They did include a 10.6 install DVD that will remain safely in the packaging for now..... The 8gb OWC ram went in painlessly and works perfectly, as did the 1TB Caviar Black HDD.
Some noob questions:
1) After updating all the OEM software, I used CCC to clone the OEM drive in Bay 1 to my 1TB in Bay 2, then set the 1 TB as the startup drive. My plan is to remove the 500GB OEM drive and keep it handy in case I need it. Do I need to move the 1TB drive to Bay 1, or is it ok to keep it in Bay 2 while Bay 1 is empty? If I move it to Bay 1, is there going to be a problem if Startup is looking for the drive in Bay 2, or does it not matter where the startup drive is?
2) I ended up using Migration Assistant to move almost everything over to the 1TB startup drive, with no problems so far. If I want to prepare for Bootcamp, does the Bootcamp Assistant make a Windows partition without reformating the drive (and losing the data there), or do I need to make my own partition with Disk Utility? Or, can I just use the 500gb OEM drive as my Windows drive so whenever I boot into Windows it will just use that drive only?
TIA
. The 8gb OWC ram went in painlessly and works perfectly, as did the 1TB Caviar Black HDD.Some noob questions:
1) After updating all the OEM software, I used CCC to clone the OEM drive in Bay 1 to my 1TB in Bay 2, then set the 1 TB as the startup drive. My plan is to remove the 500GB OEM drive and keep it handy in case I need it. Do I need to move the 1TB drive to Bay 1, or is it ok to keep it in Bay 2 while Bay 1 is empty? If I move it to Bay 1, is there going to be a problem if Startup is looking for the drive in Bay 2, or does it not matter where the startup drive is?
2) I ended up using Migration Assistant to move almost everything over to the 1TB startup drive, with no problems so far. If I want to prepare for Bootcamp, does the Bootcamp Assistant make a Windows partition without reformating the drive (and losing the data there), or do I need to make my own partition with Disk Utility? Or, can I just use the 500gb OEM drive as my Windows drive so whenever I boot into Windows it will just use that drive only?
TIA