Buyers beware - Apple won't replace defective machines, even when they can't fix them

[aeolid]

I ordered a new 27" iMac in January. It was plagued with serious issues from the very beginning and regularly crashes without warning. Needless to say, I've lost significant data, and cannot use the machine at all because it is too unreliable.

I started calling Apple Support within a couple of weeks of delivery. They put me though a series of time consuming but ultimately useless steps. Each one took most of a day, and it would be a couple of weeks before I had time to spend another day dealing with my defective computer, so after several operating system re-installs and one week at the genius bar wiping it and again reinstalling the OS - the problem has not changed but now they are saying that it's out of warranty.

Having spent months dealing with this and still not having a working machine, I've asked them to either replace it or issue a refund, but now they tell me that it is out of warranty, even thought they are still trying to figure out what the issue is. I've spent approaching hundreds of hours attempting to fix this problem, and re-setting up the machine after numerous re-installs. When I asked what my alternatives were, they actually suggested that I could sell it online!! They delivered a broken machine (that I paid nearly $3,000 for) and they have not been able to fix it, so they suggest I sell it (at a huge loss) to some unsuspecting person who will have even less claim to a warranty that I do.

I'm outraged and disappointed. Apple makes a lot of fuss about their customer service and reliability. It's all hype.

Buyer beware! If there is any indication at all that an Apple product is not working perfectly - return it for a refund IMMEDIATELY. Engaging with their support system is just a way for them to string you along until they wash their hands of the problem -- leaving you with a very expensive piece of junk.



details on the machine:
• NVIDIA GeForce GTX 775M 2GB GDDR5
• 3.4GHz Quad-core Intel Core i5, Turbo Boost up to 3.8GHz
• 32GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4X8GB
• 3TB Serial ATA Drive @ 7200 rpm

 

[Felasco]

If you can document the above, a lawsuit seems a possibility.

If you'll forgive me, and for the benefit of any other readers who may wind up in the same position...

Perhaps your mistake was in agreeing to the repair cycle, instead of demanding a replacement.

You know, when Apple says "do this, and do that, and try this, and try that etc" the appropriate response might be...

"No, I don't have time for any of this. I have a job, and a life, and I bought a Mac so Apple could help me solve my problems, not so I could help Apple solve it's problems. Take this back, and give me one that works, that's what you advertise, and that's what I paid for."

I realize this advice is useless to you now, apologies.

The best I can suggest at this point is that you consider buying used Macs from here out, as that's the only way to guarantee you won't get sucked in to dramas like this.

You could buy 4 or 5 nice used Macs for what you paid for yours. If one of them dies, simply toss it in the trash and fire up the next one.

You can stay in the land of Mac and not do any further business with Apple if that's what you want.

Hmm.... How about taking your Mac back to the Apple store on a really crowded day, making a big scene, culminating with you tossing your Mac high in the air? Call the media before you go and invite them to film it.

I dunno, kinda sounds fun, and you probably need some cheering up....

 

[aeolid]

Thank you Felasco. Yes, I fear you are correct - I should have returned it immediately and not got involved in their repair process. And yes, too late for me, but I posted this partly in hopes that others may get this info in time.

One thing that worried me though, re the idea of buying a used one. If they are telling people to sell the ones they can't fix, that leaves me concerned about buying their products used either. I was really amazed when the "supervisor" at apple support actually suggested that to me as one of my options.

I'd appreciate hearing any suggestions for next steps that any of you may have. Is there some way to reach a higher up at Apple who could make the call to either replace my machine or issue a refund? (A lawsuit is a bit more ambitious than I'm ready for).

Thanks,

 

[jeremysteele]

Something sounds weird here. You bought it in January - but apple says it is out of warranty? Who said that, phone or in-store?

A few thing to try and some questions:

A) What is the issue? Are you sure it isn't caused by 3rd party hardware/software? Is it actually an issue? (sorry gotta ask, but I was once in the store when someone wanted to return their 4 month old macbook because icons kept bouncing in the dock. Seriously). Could the issue have been caused by water damager or an electrical surge (trying to think of reasons they would deny it) ?

B) Did you buy it from Apple (or authorized retailer), or from another 3rd party (ebay, etc?) , and are you sure it is new and not used?

C) Check your warranty here. If it says it is valid - print it out and bring it into the store.

D) Ask to speak to the store manager. If they still refuse it - call Apple care (while in the store) and ask for a support manager. Tell them the store is refusing to honor a valid warranty.

E) If you still get nowhere - Did you buy on a credit card? If it is truly broken - and you have documents showing all your visits and communication with Apple - contact your CC company and look into doing a chargeback. Most of them have pretty lenient time-limits on major purchases, and are sometimes even willing to "bend the rules" on said limits if the consumer has good proof (documents showing times you went in, who you spoke to, etc)



------

If all else fails and you cant even chargeback - toss an email to tcook@apple.com with all the info you have - his staff has been known to respond to people now and then.

 

[ReallyOldGuy]

Sorry. but I don't buy it. had products replaced at 3, 7 and 13months in the past. 3rd party software? There is more to this story. Yes i am a fanaboy,however Apple is number 1 in customer satisfaction for a reason. PLEASE tell us the whole story and I bet someone here can truly help you. I am not being a jerk. Share it all.

 

[SaSaSushi]

I ordered a new 27" iMac in January.

the problem has not changed but now they are saying that it's out of warranty.

Telephone support expires in 90 days on the limited warranty but the machine itself has a one year warranty from the date of purchase.

They delivered a broken machine (that I paid nearly $3,000 for) and they have not been able to fix it, so they suggest I sell it (at a huge loss) to some unsuspecting person who will have even less claim to a warranty that I do.

Who are "they" again? I've never heard of Apple support ever suggesting such a thing, especially on a machine still under warranty coverage. You say this was Applecare you were speaking with?

I've had many, many occasions to use Applecare over the years. I called them and they go through the standard list of questions. Once they realized it was a defect in the machine and not something resolvable on my end they arranged for pickup and delivery to the service center, the machine was repaired and returned.

details on the machine:
• 32GB 1600MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 4X8GB

Did you order the iMac with 32GB or upgrade the RAM yourself? The Haswell iMacs are extremely sensitive with upgrade RAM. You say your machine is crashing?

See this thread. I experienced crashing/kernel panics as well until I got compatible upgrade memory.

 

[jeremysteele]

Apple is number 1 in customer satisfaction for a reason. .

For a decade.

However, even "top notch support" can screw up now and then. No company is perfect.

Did you order the iMac with 32GB or upgrade the RAM yourself? The Haswell iMacs are extremely sensitive with upgrade RAM.

I would even go further and say most modern computers (macs, PCs, custom builds, etc) are getting kind of picky about their RAM. Done a few builds in the last couple years and have run into all sorts of strange ram-related issues I never used to, mainly because a lot of manufacturers like to overclock them by default now. Definitely look into RAM if you upgraded it yourself!

-----
To expand on my 3rd party hardware/software comment from above - I had a keyboard that I used on several computers. On a gaming PC and my mac. Worked great on the PC, but it kept crashing on my mac. The keyboard had a slight electrical short in it, that apparently my mac mini was more susceptible too (random panics, restarts, etc). Fixed it and it has worked great since.

If you have a bunch of devices (printers, usb sticks, etc) try removing all the unneeded ones and see if it helps. You'd be amazed how often a weird quirk can cause all sorts of issues.

 

[aeolid]

Jeremysteele, you are correct about the warranty. I may have been using the wrong terms. What they told me is that it's now too late for a replacement or refund. I am certainly well within my 12 months, and I'm still working on an issue that was identified right away. I don't know how fast you'd need to insist on a replacement to not be "too late". Perhaps they are referring to the 14 day return period that they supposedly offer regardless of repair issues?

Perhaps I was naive, but I was willing to try taking various steps to either further diagnose the problem or to fix it. Looks different in hindsight now.

To answer your questions:
- I purchased it new from the Apple online store.
- The problem is regular crashing that turns the computer off. When it restarts, it gives me that error message "your computer shut down because of a problem..." and then asks if you want to send an error report to Apple. I did that religiously for the first few months in hopes that it would help figure out the problem, until one of their support folks explained that those reports are anonymous and do not attach to my file. I saved a copy of one though, will past it below in case it means anything to any of you.

Since the most recent re-install of the operating system I have not imported any of my documents or data (too worried about losing it all again). I did not restore from any backups (just to be sure I was not re-importing a software problem). This most recent install, I've used it for email and internet only. The only software I've added is Firefox and Open Office. And Chrome. And Avast anti-virus. Oh, and Postbox email program. Really trying to keep it sparse while I gave it time to see if the problem is still here. Which it is.

Researching return options via my credit card is an excellent suggestion. Unfortunately I had to split it up between two cards (because it's such a high-priced item!) but I will look into that anyways.

Here's my most recent error report:

Anonymous UUID:       81234E44-C0B4-0D28-F828-E178FA1043E0

Mon Apr 28 16:57:12 2014
panic(cpu 2 caller 0xffffff8002edbe7e): Kernel trap at 0xffffff8002e15072, type 6=invalid opcode, registers:
CR0: 0x000000008001003b, CR2: 0x000000010d65c068, CR3: 0x00000002f7f32027, CR4: 0x00000000001606e0
RAX: 0x0000000000000011, RBX: 0xffffff805e2ba69c, RCX: 0x0000000000000000, RDX: 0x0000000000000000
RSP: 0xffffff8393433e90, RBP: 0xffffff8393433ef0, RSI: 0xffffff80528e8a50, RDI: 0xffffff805e2ba69c
R8:  0x00000000004f346a, R9:  0x0000000000000000, R10: 0xffffff8393433e20, R11: 0x0000000000000680
R12: 0xffffff80528e8a50, R13: 0xffffff8043f7e140, R14: 0xffffff80528e8a50, R15: 0xffffff80458734b0
RFL: 0x0000000000010286, RIP: 0xffffff8002e15072, CS:  0x0000000000000008, SS:  0x0000000000000010
Fault CR2: 0x000000010d65c068, Error code: 0x0000000000000000, Fault CPU: 0x2

Backtrace (CPU 2), Frame : Return Address
0xffffff8393433b20 : 0xffffff8002e22fa9 
0xffffff8393433ba0 : 0xffffff8002edbe7e 
0xffffff8393433d70 : 0xffffff8002ef3376 
0xffffff8393433d90 : 0xffffff8002e15072 
0xffffff8393433ef0 : 0xffffff8002e15a20 
0xffffff8393433f20 : 0xffffff8002e1dc33 
0xffffff8393433f90 : 0xffffff8002e1df6b 
0xffffff8393433fb0 : 0xffffff8002ed7047 

BSD process name corresponding to current thread: firefox

Mac OS version:
13C1021

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 13.1.0: Wed Apr  2 23:52:02 PDT 2014; root:xnu-2422.92.1~2/RELEASE_X86_64
Kernel UUID: E9CF78E2-1E9F-3B6F-81A4-FEE6C6D0E4D5
Kernel slide:     0x0000000002c00000
Kernel text base: 0xffffff8002e00000
System model name: iMac14,2 (Mac-27ADBB7B4CEE8E61)

System uptime in nanoseconds: 77438703593859
last loaded kext at 75252069261638: com.apple.driver.AppleIntelMCEReporter\t104 (addr 0xffffff7f853e9000, size 49152)
last unloaded kext at 75324745018750: com.apple.driver.AppleIntelMCEReporter\t104 (addr 0xffffff7f853e9000, size 32768)
loaded kexts:
com.avast.AvastFileShield\t2.1.0
com.avast.PacketForwarder\t1.4
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com.apple.driver.AppleHDA\t2.6.0f1
com.apple.driver.AppleUpstreamUserClient\t3.5.13
com.apple.GeForce\t8.2.4
com.apple.iokit.IOUserEthernet\t1.0.0d1
com.apple.iokit.BroadcomBluetoothHostControllerUSBTransport\t4.2.3f10
com.apple.Dont_Steal_Mac_OS_X\t7.0.0
com.apple.driver.AppleHWAccess\t1
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com.apple.driver.AppleIntelFramebufferAzul\t8.2.4
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Model: iMac14,2, BootROM IM142.0118.B00, 4 processors, Intel Core i5, 3.4 GHz, 32 GB, SMC 2.15f2
Graphics: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 775M, NVIDIA GeForce GTX 775M, PCIe, 2048 MB
Memory Module: BANK 0/DIMM0, 8 GB, DDR3, 1600 MHz, 0x02FE, 0x45424A3831554738454655352D474E4C2D46
Memory Module: BANK 1/DIMM0, 8 GB, DDR3, 1600 MHz, 0x02FE, 0x45424A3831554738454655352D474E4C2D46
Memory Module: BANK 0/DIMM1, 8 GB, DDR3, 1600 MHz, 0x02FE, 0x45424A3831554738454655352D474E4C2D46
Memory Module: BANK 1/DIMM1, 8 GB, DDR3, 1600 MHz, 0x02FE, 0x45424A3831554738454655352D474E4C2D46
AirPort: spairport_wireless_card_type_airport_extreme (0x14E4, 0x111), Broadcom BCM43xx 1.0 (6.30.223.154.63)
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Network Service: Wi-Fi, AirPort, en1
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USB Device: BRCM20702 Hub
USB Device: Bluetooth USB Host Controller
USB Device: FaceTime HD Camera (Built-in)
Thunderbolt Bus: iMac, Apple Inc., 23.10

 

[AnalyzeThis]

Try to get rid of "com.avast.*" junk from your machine. Possibly located in /Applications/Avast. Most likely you need to use uninstaller as deleting App would not get rid of drivers. Or try to use Chrome or safari instead of firefox and see if it keeps you out of trouble, but unlikely. Macs are not in big/any need of antivirus... Those anti-viruses are full of bugs and unfortunately they use kernel drivers to operate and when they blow - they would take whole system down. It would be very ironic: AV almost ruined your experience with Mac OS X and cost you and Apple $$$$ and time.

 

[aeolid]

Thanks for everyone's help! I'm getting behind on replying to them.

Good point about the RAM, but no - I have not installed anything myself. I ordered the extra RAM from Apple when I purchased it and they delivered it installed. I guess it could still be a problem, but it's one that came with the computer if it is. And I have nothing else plugged in to the machine. I do have it connected to the internet via my wifi network (not via an ethernet cable).

Yes, I suppose it could also be something as simple as a shorted out keyboard, but I have no way of figuring all that out. I've had no power outages or water damage or anything along those lines. Really, I thought Felasco's quote put it well: "I bought a Mac so Apple could help me solve my problems, not so I could help Apple solve it's problems."

It's reassuring to see that Apple has replaced machines at 3, 7 and 13 months. I don't know why they have told me that it's too late for that in this case. Maybe there's still hope that they'll come around (after they've wasted some more of my precious time figuring it all out).

The "they" I referred to (who suggested that selling it was one of my options) is a supervisor at Apple Care. I have a first name and a telephone extension for her there (that's what they offer up as far as ID). She came up with that after checking with another department (I believe she said it was the sales department) to see if they could replace it at this stage. After coming back with a "no" I asked her what my options were and she said selling it was an option and "is something that some people do in these situations."

I think part of the problem here is that the techs at the Genius Bar were not able to replicate the problem. It's a random crashing. It does not happen reliably within any given four hour window. And it does not appear to be related to any particular type or volume of activity - so I was not surprised that their 'stress test' did not make it crash. But if one of them had used it for a full day, or at most two, then it would certainly have crashed at least once. Frustrating.

 

[Roller]

I'm not even going to try to guess what's wrong with your computer. However, in my experience dealing with Apple for more than 30 years, they've been very good at solving problems like this, eventually. I'm surprised that someone at the supervisory level at AppleCare would suggest selling it. In any case, if you're polite and persistent, you should be able to speak to someone above that level.

If that doesn't work, I'd write a letter to Apple, detailing what happened and when. I've also had good luck writing CEOs directly, in this case Tim Cook. He probably won't respond directly, but CEOs generally hate getting letters like this and usually pass the case off to a subordinate to handle.

Good luck!

 

[jeremysteele]

It's reassuring to see that Apple has replaced machines at 3, 7 and 13 months. I don't know why they have told me that it's too late for that in this case. Maybe there's still hope that they'll come around (after they've wasted some more of my precious time figuring it all out).

Thanks for clarifying the warranty thing.

My guess is they misunderstood and thought you only were after a refund. As you said - its 14 days for that (although, they have been known to increase that under certain circumstances (lemon laws, etc)). They definitely can replace the machine anytime during the warranty period if it needs to be. They usually don't replace with new, but instead use refurbished machines (which honestly I've had better luck with anyway).

As analyzethis said - start with removing avast. I would hope that would do the job. It has been known to cause kernel panics (all over google).

Another thing to try (if avast doesn't work) - assuming you have another machine to use in the meantime - I would even go as far as doing one last clean install - dont put anything onto it (leave it bare-bones) and let it run a couple days. If it is fine - then you know some software is messing it up (firefox, etc).

---

Oh, and do make sure you are all updated . Mavericks was insanely unstable for me until the most recent update (10.9.2?). Had kernel panics at least once a week, on a previously stable setup under mountain lion. Granted, it still has some quirks, but its much better than before.

 

[R3DH3R0]

At least you haven't been banned
http://bannedfromapple.weebly.com

 

[mmomega]

Sorry for your bad luck. I'm guessing you don't live anywhere near an actual Apple Store?

Any time I had a problem I would go to the store and the problem was handled on the spot.
2 times were computers, one was switched out with a better equipped model, the other was a laptop that they replaced the logic board on and ended up giving my wife a replacement rMBP.
Phones, unless they had physical or water damage were replaced on the spot.

I'm not sure what to tell you though... sorry and glad I've never had issues with any company like you have.
I'd have a ton of Apple Stuff to sell if I had a meltdown and decided to do so.

 

[OLDCODGER]

You mentioned getting the Genius bar to check it out - did you also take your own keyboard in, or did they use one of their own?

 

[bushman4]

Its important immediately after receiving a defective machine to ask to have it replaced. Apple and every other company always want you and tech support to try and resolve it. But wait a minute, I bought a new machine and expect it to work. I'm not employed by Apple and shouldn't have to spend my time getting it to work.
Remember sometimes you have to state what you expect from a company.

 

[comatory]

Your case sounds really confusing. You have a warranty for whole year. They must honor it, period. Best method is to be calm and polite about it.

But firstly, do this:

1. Disconnect ALL devices from your Mac
2. Use only supplied keyboard and mouse
3. Do a clean install and DO NOT install anything on the computer - no antivirus, no Firefox. Just try to use supplied programs (like Safari, Mail) for a week.
4. If nothing happens during that week, you know it's a software problem. Now try installing single programs to see which one is crashing your computer.

You HAVE TO rule out software issue, otherwise Apple won't fix/look into your problem. They probably did the above to see if there's any problem.

You could also try Apple Hardware Test (google it). You can also try removing RAM modules and using only single one to see if there's not any bad RAM.

Do you plug your Mac into a normal power outlet? You might try a different one. I've had huge and unexplainable problems with my computer in my apartment (multiple hard drive failures, bad PSUs, bad graphic cards etc)... only few years later I found out the electricity in the house was unstable. It was fluctuating as the passing tramways went by... probably some bad isolation. Getting surge protector/UPS fixed this problem.

 

[WilliamG]

Try to get rid of "com.avast.*" junk from your machine. Possibly located in /Applications/Avast. Most likely you need to use uninstaller as deleting App would not get rid of drivers. Or try to use Chrome or safari instead of firefox and see if it keeps you out of trouble, but unlikely. Macs are not in big/any need of antivirus... Those anti-viruses are full of bugs and unfortunately they use kernel drivers to operate and when they blow - they would take whole system down. It would be very ironic: AV almost ruined your experience with Mac OS X and cost you and Apple $$$$ and time.

Agreed. I'm going to guess the issue is just simple (crappy) software. Do a fresh install of OS X, and leave out the unnecessary Avast.

 

[Chippy99]

I really do not understand the OP's post.

He says he bought the iMac in January and now it is out of warranty? The warranty lasts for at least 1 year (sometimes longer) depending on where you bought it. So it is definitely in warranty!

But moreover, the warranty obligates Apple to remedy the issues with the iMac, but the warranty terms are in addition to any legal rights already provided by consumer law. Here in the UK, that means goods must be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. Similar provisions apply in other juristictions.

I would simply tell Apple that the goods are not of satisfactory quality and I want it replaced or I will see them in court. Here in the UK that would 99.99% guarantee a replacement would be forthcoming.

 

[Felasco]

And yes, too late for me, but I posted this partly in hopes that others may get this info in time.

Good for you. I hope you find suggestions in this thread that will improve your situation to some degree.

One thing that worried me though, re the idea of buying a used one. If they are telling people to sell the ones they can't fix, that leaves me concerned about buying their products used either.

You don't have to buy used Macs from Apple, there are other vendors who specialize in used Macs, such as MacOfAllTrades.com. I've bought five machines from them I think, so far so good. 90 day warranty, which can be extended.

Do you need the latest greatest features for whatever computing you do? If yes, buying used won't work. If you can get by without latest greatest features, it's helpful to consider the math involved.

A used Mac is just as much of a crap shoot lottery as buying a new Mac. But, used Macs are much cheaper. A five year old Mac might be 25% the price of a new one. This highly discounted price means you can buy more than one Mac.

As example, for $3000 you could purchase as many as 6 five year old Macs of roughly the same model. Six is overkill, so let's call it three. If you bought three used Macs for say $1500 total, you'd save $1500, and it would be highly unlikely that all three Macs would be broken.

Bottom line: You save lots of money, and get the peace of mind that is not available from Apple. Pretty good features.

The price you pay is that you don't get the latest greatest features. Whether this matters depends on what you need to do with your Mac. For most people it doesn't matter.

I'd appreciate hearing any suggestions for next steps that any of you may have. Is there some way to reach a higher up at Apple who could make the call to either replace my machine or issue a refund?

I have no idea if this will help, but have you tried calling them every day? I'll give you an example of what I mean...

I had a neighbor with chronically barking dogs. When it became clear a simple polite request wasn't going to resolve the problem I did this.

At least once a day I would knock on her front door and very politely ask her to bring the dogs inside. I would pretend as if we'd never discussed the issue before, and would restate my request as if it was new. When she got mad and slammed the door, I would go home and wait for the next day, whereupon I would return and start the process yet again.

It's important to always be very polite, so that whatever butt hole you're negotiating with can't change the subject from them to you.

It took awhile, but the situation did improve bit by bit, and then she packed up all her crap and moved away. The new neighbors are fantastic, my patience rewarded.

Point being, it may not be special inside information that you need. It might just be relentless polite persistence.

When Apple says, "We've already resolved this issue" say ok thanks and hang up. And then call back and start again. And again. And again. And again. Hire a high school kid to make some of the calls for you.

You may eventually find an AppleCare person who has a soul and is willing to go the extra mile for you. You might have to make a number of calls to find them.

 

[nebo1ss]

I really do not understand the OP's post.

He says he bought the iMac in January and now it is out of warranty? The warranty lasts for at least 1 year (sometimes longer) depending on where you bought it. So it is definitely in warranty!

But moreover, the warranty obligates Apple to remedy the issues with the iMac, but the warranty terms are in addition to any legal rights already provided by consumer law. Here in the UK, that means goods must be as described, of satisfactory quality and fit for purpose. Similar provisions apply in other juristictions.

I would simply tell Apple that the goods are not of satisfactory quality and I want it replaced or I will see them in court. Here in the UK that would 99.99% guarantee a replacement would be forthcoming.

The Op has already clarified this in a subsequent post. Read the thread.

 

[Chippy99]

The Op has already clarified this in a subsequent post. Read the thread.

Please accept my humble and most grovelling apologies. I will try not to be so stupid again in future.

 

[CH12671]

I seriously doubt the genius bar would have to replicate the problem...there are log files that your computer keeps. Apple will replace the computer. But as stated earlier, unplug all peripherals to make sure it isn't something that is plugged into the machine causing the problem. RAM is another thing that can bring about these problems when it starts going bad.

maybe you could run the apple hardware test on it yourself to see if the RAM or any other component shows up bad...

 

[aeolid]

OK, so I have uninstalled Avast antivirus. That sounded like a good suggestion (thank you). We'll see if that helps. However, I have been using Avast on my MBPro with no issues and have seen wide positive reviews of it. I've also heard stories of Mac users getting trojan horses, worms and other malware issues recently - so I am nervous about simply deciding that anti-virus software is unnecessary for Macs in the long term. However, reading this page has been reassuring and informative: http://guides.macrumors.com/Mac_Virus/Malware_FAQ

In terms of power: it's plugged in to a surge protector (and it's one I've used with other devices with no problems).

Yes, I'm fully up to date on Mavericks updates (and have stayed on top of that during this entire time). Currently running 10.9.2.

There is nothing else attached to it. The keyboard and mouse I'm using are the ones that shipped with the machine (and are wireless). It is connected to the internet, though also via wifi.

In terms of testing by removing RAM, I would prefer not to do anything that involves cracking open the machine. I'm not expert at these matters and am concerned that I could further harm my efforts to get Apple to honor the warranty. And again, it should be possible for me to end up with the working machine that I paid for. Any repairs along those lines should be covered by the warranty, and executed by Apple (not a desperate newbie like me who doesn't know what I'm doing). Again, the RAM and everything else I'm using all shipped with the machine - I 've added nothing myself.

Yes, I did bring it in the to Genius Bar at a shop (which because I live in NYC was actually a huge pain. Living near a store is super convenient for any equipment small enough to carry on the subway, but a real pain for anything large. You can't simply drive up to a store in Manhattan and park nearby, nor will the store employees leave the store to hold on to the machine while you go search for parking). They had it for a week and ran some tests before wiping it and doing a full clean install. I had brought the power cord, keyboard and mouse in - but they requested that I bring those home again and leave only the machine (seems those items can get confused or lost there since they have so many that look alike). So no, I guess they did not test the keyboard or mouse that I use.

In terms of future purchases -- or for those of you reading this that are considering a purchase -- yes I would look seriously at buying used in the future. Though I would require a good warranty and some reason to think that it would be honored. In this case, I had a project in February and March that I wanted a new powerful, reliable machine for. So I shelled out the extra bucks for this one. I gave myself a few weeks to get it set up and running, naively thinking that would be enough. Unfortunately what I got was a broken machine and a support/repair system that seems perfectly OK with wasting huge amounts of my time instead of just replacing it and figuring out the problem on their own time. So this purchase made that project much harder, instead of any easier. But that particular ship has now sailed. Now I'm simply trying to get a machine that I can use (since I've now spent the money, plus a ton of time).

Yes the warranty question here is confusing. And I agree that there's something not right. Clearly the 14 day return period has run (my bad there - should have sent it back immediately), but I've repeated asked for EITHER a replacement or a refund. What has now run is the 90 support period. That must be related to what they are telling me now, but I don't see why that means that it's "too late" for a replacement machine on a problem that was identified right from the beginning. They shipped it to me broken. It seems that what's going on is that they would prefer that I do the testing and troubleshooting instead of Apple needing to do it. That's really unacceptable to me. Terrible customer service -- I'm being punished for being willing to spend time trying to test and fix it.

Thanks again for all the helpful comments.

 

[ugahairydawgs]

I had an issue with a MBP last year. Sent it into AppleCare for service twice and both times it came back with the issue persisting. Took it into my closest Apple Store (1 hour away) after I got it back the 2nd time and told them what was going on. They did a bunch of tests and ultimately wanted to send it off again for service. I explained to them (calmly) what had been going on and how long it had been going on for and eventually the guy at the store got his manager to agree to swap out the computer for a new one.

If it were me, I would stop wasting time trying to troubleshoot this thing. Call up Apple Care and have them send out a box for you to ship it off for service. Go through the routine of getting it worked on and if you send it off multiple times and the issue still persists you should be able to get it replaced (I believe their lemon policy calls for 3 repairs for the same issue).