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Buying 13" 2015 rMBP: Possible to output to 2 4k monitors @ 60hz?

A

analyticsDS

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Apr 10, 2015
12
0
Hi Mac Experts,

I'd like your help to understand if my planned computer setup for work will work.

I have a decent budget ($3,000) to buy the equipment I want and I'd love some confirmation that this set up will 1. work 2. work well under intense use (CPU/memory heavy work)

I'm deciding between the 13" and 15" rMBP. I have a late 2012 15" (first retina MBP) and I would really prefer to get a more portable 13" since I travel quite a bit and the 15 is rather heavy.

I've specced out the following 2015 rMBP on the Apple site:
- 3.1GHz Dual-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 3.4GHz
- 16GB 1866MHz LPDDR3 SDRAM
- 512GB PCIe-based Flash Storage

Yes it's maxed out! I do data analytics/science and dev. work that tends to be RAM and CPU intensive so it's nice to have the power.

I'd love to be able to hook this laptop up to 2 24" external 4k displays at a "retina" like DPI/PPI level. In my research, I found this great comment by user MTW in the WireCutter article that explains that the Dell P2415Q is the best plug/play 4k display for the money.

I think the problem here is that you are looking at this as a '4k monitor' thing.

If you are using a Windows PC, do not buy any 4k/5 display. Windows HiDPI scaling is a mess.

If you have a Mac with a DisplayPort 1.2 enabled GPU, the Dell P2415Q is $430, is SST (Single Stream, as opposed to janky ass MST) like any normal monitor, and (here's the kicker) gets you 'retina'. Retina at 1920 simulated, as opposed to the iMac 5k, which gets you 2560 simulated. It meets the size/DPI requirements to be considered a Retina Display. OS X detects it as one natively and sets HiDPI.

It's glorious. A user has to do nothing other than plug the display in. No digging around in the menu, no MST sleep issues, etc.

If The Wirecutter looked at this from the perspective of 'the best Retina display for Mac users', I'm pretty sure the P2415Q would win. SST eliminates all the jankyness of earlier displays. This (in my assessment anyway) a site for people who are willing to pay money for good things - of those people, who uses Windows anyway?

Notes:

4k does not need Displayport 1.3 for anything. You can do single stream with 1.2 at 4k, as the monitor I've been mentioning here demonstrates. 1.3 is big for 5k - single stream with 60 hz - but we aren't really talking about that yet.

1.3 also doesn't help with multi display. I have two of these monitors on two on one GPU, all is well here. Displayport doesn't share bandwidth across different ports. Each port gets the full stack of bandwidth

HDMI 2.0 does let you run at 60hz, but Displayport already does that.

With no offense, whoever wrote this piece seems to be lacking in the technical knowledge department. Usually you guys are pretty good...

There's other issues in the article too, like using 4k to refer to retina displays. 4k in and of itself does not get you HiDPI. The only situation where you actually get it is on a 24" or smaller display. Go up to 27", you have left the Retina world (though things still look ok) Go to 32" and the display looks like any other 1x monitor.
Click to expand...

My concerns/questions are:

  • Does the 2015 13" rMBP support 4k @ 60 hz with the Dell monitor? Can I do so in clamshell mode and using the laptop screen as a second screen? I've done a search on here and saw some posts where people said it worked and others who couldn't get it to work.
  • This might be greedy but does it support 4k @ 60hz with 2 4k Monitors at once in clamshell mode? Will that kill my performance if I'm doing intensive data science/analysis work? That kind of work isn't GPU intensive but I'm not sure if that matters. I'd rather use a single monitor than deal with frequent slow downs with a dual monitor set up.
  • Is the Dell P2415Q the best 4k monitor for the price? I'd prefer to be at 24" or under to maximize PPI and "retina" level clarity. According to this: http://www.noteloop.com/kit/display/pixel-density/ I'll get 185 PPI at 24" which is a slight compromise over the 227 I'll get with the 13" monitor. Not sure if it makes sense to go smaller (23" or 21.5" or if I'll even detect the difference at a distance of 2 feet)

I'm open to any suggestions on how to get the best performance set up here. Very grateful for your help and recommendations. Thank you and take care.
 
I have that Dell and the exact machine you're thinking about buying.

Driving this display at 4k 60hz is painful at best. You're MUCH better off getting the 15" with a discrete GPU. These integrated GPUs on the 13" machines are not very capable, they are terribly slow with WebGL and all the Yosemite transitions. :( I feel stunted with the slowness and often times prefer my 11" Air, since it's non-retina and "feels" faster.

good luck and go with the discrete GPU!

analyticsDS said:
Hi Mac Experts,

I'd like your help to understand if my planned computer setup for work will work.

I have a decent budget ($3,000) to buy the equipment I want and I'd love some confirmation that this set up will 1. work 2. work well under intense use (CPU/memory heavy work)

I'm deciding between the 13" and 15" rMBP. I have a late 2012 15" (first retina MBP) and I would really prefer to get a more portable 13" since I travel quite a bit and the 15 is rather heavy.

I've specced out the following 2015 rMBP on the Apple site:
- 3.1GHz Dual-core Intel Core i7, Turbo Boost up to 3.4GHz
- 16GB 1866MHz LPDDR3 SDRAM
- 512GB PCIe-based Flash Storage

Yes it's maxed out! I do data analytics/science and dev. work that tends to be RAM and CPU intensive so it's nice to have the power.

I'd love to be able to hook this laptop up to 2 24" external 4k displays at a "retina" like DPI/PPI level. In my research, I found this great comment by user MTW in the WireCutter article that explains that the Dell P2415Q is the best plug/play 4k display for the money.



My concerns/questions are:

  • Does the 2015 13" rMBP support 4k @ 60 hz with the Dell monitor? Can I do so in clamshell mode and using the laptop screen as a second screen? I've done a search on here and saw some posts where people said it worked and others who couldn't get it to work.
  • This might be greedy but does it support 4k @ 60hz with 2 4k Monitors at once in clamshell mode? Will that kill my performance if I'm doing intensive data science/analysis work? That kind of work isn't GPU intensive but I'm not sure if that matters. I'd rather use a single monitor than deal with frequent slow downs with a dual monitor set up.
  • Is the Dell P2415Q the best 4k monitor for the price? I'd prefer to be at 24" or under to maximize PPI and "retina" level clarity. According to this: http://www.noteloop.com/kit/display/pixel-density/ I'll get 185 PPI at 24" which is a slight compromise over the 227 I'll get with the 13" monitor. Not sure if it makes sense to go smaller (23" or 21.5" or if I'll even detect the difference at a distance of 2 feet)

I'm open to any suggestions on how to get the best performance set up here. Very grateful for your help and recommendations. Thank you and take care.
Click to expand...
 
I'vet got this monitor and the 2015 rMBP and I also have problems with stuttering animations, slow performance and such things. The plan was to get another monitor and do the exact setup you were planning but I'm not sure it's worth it. It would be lag hell.

And also, YES, the 6100 GPU should be able to run this. It just doesn't. It's a software problem, not a hardware problem. It doesn't change the fact that it will be stuttery as hell. You can see lag in the following video I posted in another thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp0ldpjSTvk (it's worse than it looks)
 
kevmodrome said:
I'vet got this monitor and the 2015 rMBP and I also have problems with stuttering animations, slow performance and such things. The plan was to get another monitor and do the exact setup you were planning but I'm not sure it's worth it. It would be lag hell.

And also, YES, the 6100 GPU should be able to run this. It just doesn't. It's a software problem, not a hardware problem. It doesn't change the fact that it will be stuttery as hell. You can see lag in the following video I posted in another thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp0ldpjSTvk (it's worse than it looks)
Click to expand...

Yes, I have seen the lag videos. But I have also read the countless folks that have no lag at all. So I am not sure what that is about.
 
Thank you all for your replies. I've gathered that it's a software problem, not a hardware one. Does it make sense to purchase the maxed out 13 then? I imagine Apple would release a driver patch....

I'm considering a 15" not but it doesn't have a force track pad or update...then I'd have to wait which is rather not.

Edit: just had a thought I saw a post that the new MacBook can drive a 4k display at 60hz and its weaker in power than a rMBP. Wondering what gives there?
 
Last edited:
The consideration on whether you get a 15" or a 13" should be:

1. Do you need a quad core processor?
2. Do you mind the ginormous size?

So if you don't mind the size and need a quad, then go 15". If you prefer something smaller and a dual core will do, then 13". Easy.
 
ZBoater said:
The consideration on whether you get a 15" or a 13" should be:

1. Do you need a quad core processor?
2. Do you mind the ginormous size?

So if you don't mind the size and need a quad, then go 15". If you prefer something smaller and a dual core will do, then 13". Easy.
Click to expand...

if you're doing any graphics intensive work, video editing, 3d, etc. you'd be much better suited with a discrete GPU the 15" has. trust me on this.
 
analyticsDS said:
Edit: just had a thought I saw a post that the new MacBook can drive a 4k display at 60hz and its weaker in power than a rMBP. Wondering what gives there?
Click to expand...

Yes, but I would not be surprised if it lagged and stuttered as well, since it seems to be a software problem. Also the processor and GPU is way way weaker. The rMBP 13" can drive two 4k monitors according to the specifications. It will however probably stutter like crazy.
 
datafirm said:
if you're doing any graphics intensive work, video editing, 3d, etc. you'd be much better suited with a discrete GPU the 15" has. trust me on this.
Click to expand...

Yes, but the Iris 6100 on the 13" is no slouch. The dedicated GPU is nicer, but not a requirement. The Iris 6100 performs better than dedicated GPUs from a generation or two ago.

No doubt a quad core and dedicated GPU is better, if you can tolerate that boat anchor of a machine taking up your lap or your desk. :p
 
ZBoater said:
Yes, but the Iris 6100 on the 13" is no slouch. The dedicated GPU is nicer, but not a requirement. The Iris 6100 performs better than dedicated GPUs from a generation or two ago.

No doubt a quad core and dedicated GPU is better, if you can tolerate that boat anchor of a machine taking up your lap or your desk. :p
Click to expand...

yeah, it's a beast. you should try to buy one from a place with a nice return policy and try for yourself. the integrated GPU should perform, but Im finding it so slow with Yostemite transitions, making me feel less productive :( my i7 2013 11" Air "feels" faster. and I love the size of the air, however, the retina and force touch are amazing. just hope Apple fixes these issues with the software making things seems slow.

you probably just need to try it for yourself. this maxed out 13" I have is just the same as the i5 I returned. and I may return this and keep my 11" until a better 12" MB comes out! :)
 
ZBoater said:
Ummmm, I did.

I have the i7/16GB/1TB. No slow downs, no lag, buttery smooth, even playing Civ 5 at 2560x1600. Much better than the 2013 MBA it replaced. No contest.
Click to expand...

was referring to the OP.

----------
ZBoater said:
Ummmm, I did.

I have the i7/16GB/1TB. No slow downs, no lag, buttery smooth, even playing Civ 5 at 2560x1600. Much better than the 2013 MBA it replaced. No contest.
Click to expand...

I just can't understand how it could be butter smooth, when we have the same machine. sometimes, mission control will take 1.5 seconds to init, then the animations are terribly slow when it init. opening menus is slow for me as well ~200ms delay
 
datafirm said:
I just can't understand how it could be butter smooth, when we have the same machine. sometimes, mission control will take 1.5 seconds to init, then the animations are terribly slow when it init. opening menus is slow for me as well ~200ms delay
Click to expand...

Not sure what to tell you. Sometimes I click on Mission Control just to check. I was even doing file copies to my NAS and syncing with iTunes, and the animations were smooooth.

Do you have any other 3rd party software installed running in the background?
 
ZBoater said:
Not sure what to tell you. Sometimes I click on Mission Control just to check. I was even doing file copies to my NAS and syncing with iTunes, and the animations were smooooth.

Do you have any other 3rd party software installed running in the background?
Click to expand...

Could you post a video? It's all so subjective. Also, what resolution are you running at?
 
datafirm said:
I have that Dell and the exact machine you're thinking about buying.

Driving this display at 4k 60hz is painful at best. You're MUCH better off getting the 15" with a discrete GPU. These integrated GPUs on the 13" machines are not very capable, they are terribly slow with WebGL and all the Yosemite transitions. :( I feel stunted with the slowness and often times prefer my 11" Air, since it's non-retina and "feels" faster.

good luck and go with the discrete GPU!
Click to expand...

I tried the rMBP at a store and everything was absolutely fine, admittedly not driving a 4K Dell, but that is exactly what I am intending to buy.
So, are you saying that the rMBP on it's own is poor, or just when it's running the Dell over Display Port?
 
ZBoater said:
Yes, but the Iris 6100 on the 13" is no slouch. The dedicated GPU is nicer, but not a requirement. The Iris 6100 performs better than dedicated GPUs from a generation or two ago.

No doubt a quad core and dedicated GPU is better, if you can tolerate that boat anchor of a machine taking up your lap or your desk. :p
Click to expand...

Yes, I have a 15" 2012 rMBP. Too heavy for travel! Think i'll go with the 13"and the Dell and hope for the best!
 
Just an additional question, didn't want to make a new thread. As I mentioned, my current computer is a mid 2012 Macbook pro retina 15" with 8gb RAM, i7, and NVidia GeForce 650m 1gb. Is this enough juice to power the Dell 4k @ 60hz?
 
yjchua95 said:
No, because the TB ports itself don't have the bandwidth to drive 4K @ 60 Hz.
Click to expand...

- Actually, some displays support the use of multiple DisplayPort cables in order to achieve a higher bandwidth, so the TB 1 bandwith limitation in itself doesn't necessarily exclude 4K @ 60Hz.
I don't know whether any such 4K displays exist, though, but I know the 5K Dell UP2715K uses that method.

Of course, the MBP in question is unsupported for 4K by Apple. So this might all be rather irrelevant.
 
kevmodrome said:
Haha! If that was the case I would be a very happy man.
Click to expand...

yeah, it helps, but not enough to make me want to stop slapping the screen! ha. it's really pretty bad. I've got a lot of windows and apps running. but there is no excuse for such poor performance and what's stated to be a suitable GPU.
 
datafirm said:
yeah, it helps, but not enough to make me want to stop slapping the screen! ha. it's really pretty bad. I've got a lot of windows and apps running. but there is no excuse for such poor performance and what's stated to be a suitable GPU.
Click to expand...

so strange how the performance can very so much. I have zero lag by turning that on. I mean zero, and I am very sensitive to lag.
 
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