Buying a Car

[yojitani]

In my experience (father working for GM and grandfather owning a dealership).


Since you are looking used - if you find a car on a dealer's (auto manufacturer dealer - back by an auto manufacturer GM, Ford, Honda, etc.) lot that you are interested in, check it out with a mechanic that you trust (shouldn't cost more than $150 but worth it for piece of mind). If you are still interested in the car after the inspection return to the dealer and clearly state that you are willing to pay no more than $500 over what they have into the car (trade in cost, taxes, any necessary repairs, etc. - ask to receipts and paper work) more often than not they will sell it to you on the spot, if not I wouldn't be surprised if you get a call from the salesman within the week saying ok. The only exception to the rule are rare or modified vehicles.

Most high volume dealers would rather not hold on to a used vehicle for more than 30-60 day or less if it is a vehicle made by a competitors brand.

Thanks for this. Clearly a different approach than I've tried or heard. I'm not sure I've found a mechanic around here that I trust though! I've been through 4 different mechanics, all of whom have been either unbelievably bad or a total rip-off... The most recently one seems ok. Perhaps I'll try it out.
Typically, I check KBB and deduct from there to find the price I want to pay. Interestingly, I've found trend with dealers around here: add $1,200 on to the KBB price .

 

[mustard]

Thanks for this. Clearly a different approach than I've tried or heard. I'm not sure I've found a mechanic around here that I trust though! I've been through 4 different mechanics, all of whom have been either unbelievably bad or a total rip-off... The most recently one seems ok. Perhaps I'll try it out.
Typically, I check KBB and deduct from there to find the price I want to pay. Interestingly, I've found trend with dealers around here: add $1,200 on to the KBB price .

Well dealers will try to haggle that usually, but just say you will pay what they have in in it plus 500 not a penny more not a penny less. Just keep repeating the same thing to your salesman, by the second or third time it will happen or it wont but he will get your point that you aren't going to go back and forth with him as a middle man for you and the sales manager.

 

[Sun Baked]

Since they're essentially the same car (except the interior quality is different/better in the Toyota, and the Vibe's exterior "styling" looks slightly younger), I don't think it's worth an extra $2000 for the Toyota. Mechanically, they're the same.

This should be a car you can keep far longer than you would expect.

If you put 100-150k miles on the vehicle, the 2k upfront money shouldn't really be a consideration, nor should the resale value if you keep it even longer.

Buy the one that appeals to you more.

---

If you were planning on flipping the car before it is paid off, or are going to lease it, then the resale matters a lot.

Once the vehicle is paid off, it'll be the cheapest car you'll ever own -- and a good 2nd reliable vehicle to something fancier later.

Sometimes a bland transportation appliance is good, especially if you aren't building up anger at the time it spends in the repair bay.

 

[yojitani]

Well dealers will try to haggle that usually, but just say you will pay what they have in in it plus 500 not a penny more not a penny less. Just keep repeating the same thing to your salesman, by the second or third time it will happen or it wont but he will get your point that you aren't going to go back and forth with him as a middle man for you and the sales manager.

OK. I'm going to give this a try. So is this a matter of just telling them you'll pay the plus 500 and then asking for their paperwork (receipts etc.) on the car?

This should be a car you can keep far longer than you would expect.

....
If you were planning on flipping the car before it is paid off, or are going to lease it, then the resale matters a lot.


Sometimes a bland transportation appliance is good, especially if you aren't building up anger at the time it spends in the repair bay.

Sounds like common sense, really. I'm all for low gas consumption and less time in the repair bay - my 2 requirements for a car. Now to somehow get that into the wife's head

 

[Sun Baked]

Sounds like common sense, really. I'm all for low gas consumption and less time in the repair bay - my 2 requirements for a car. Now to somehow get that into the wife's head

Buying fewer shoes or getting a sensible car, good luck.

 

[mustard]

OK. I'm going to give this a try. So is this a matter of just telling them you'll pay the plus 500 and then asking for their paperwork (receipts etc.) on the car?



Sounds like common sense, really. I'm all for low gas consumption and less time in the repair bay - my 2 requirements for a car. Now to somehow get that into the wife's head

Basically - the point is to let them know what you are willing to offer and that it is not worth your time for needless back and forth negotiation. They would rather sell a car quickly and have that salesman start selling to another customer than to tie up the salesman, sales manager, and your times.

The reason you want to see the paperwork is to verify what they are saying they have into the car - you shouldn't really have to go over them with a fine tooth comb. If they don't show you them, stall, or say we will have to find the paper work just be careful that they are not manufacturing numbers to their benefit.

 

[yojitani]

Basically - the point is to let them know what you are willing to offer and that it is not worth your time for needless back and forth negotiation. They would rather sell a car quickly and have that salesman start selling to another customer than to tie up the salesman, sales manager, and your times.

The reason you want to see the paperwork is to verify what they are saying they have into the car - you shouldn't really have to go over them with a fine tooth comb. If they don't show you them, stall, or say we will have to find the paper work just be careful that they are not manufacturing numbers to their benefit.

In your experience, what is the difference between the asking price and the figure you come up with calculating dealer expense + 500? Just a quick estimate using KBB as a guide would work out to 3,000 less than the asking price. Granted, in some of these cases the car is way overpriced anyway (like I said before 1,200 more than the KBB estimate for a car in excellent condition, which many are not). I've got to admit that going in asking for 3,000 less than the asking price seems a bit rich.

This advice is REALLY helpful, BTW! Thanks!

YT

 

[mustard]

In your experience, what is the difference between the asking price and the figure you come up with calculating dealer expense + 500? Just a quick estimate using KBB as a guide would work out to 3,000 less than the asking price. Granted, in some of these cases the car is way overpriced anyway (like I said before 1,200 more than the KBB estimate for a car in excellent condition, which many are not). I've got to admit that going in asking for 3,000 less than the asking price seems a bit rich.

This advice is REALLY helpful, BTW! Thanks!

YT

And asking anything over KBB for a used car and/or offering anything less then KBB on your trade would be insulting too? - BUT IT IS A BUSINESS THAT FUNCTIONS ON IMPULSIVE/NIAVE BUYERS.

The intent is to offer the dealer a quick out for a used vehicle - they can sit on there KBB pricing all year long and have to insure, pay taxes and maintain the vehicle and HOPE that someone comes along and says "I want that one" without doing there research or aren't willing to haggle.

The worst that can happen is if they blatantly laugh in your face which will do nothing but hurt the dealerships image - 90% of a dealership's business revolves around repeat customers or customer referrals.

 

[yojitani]

And asking anything over KBB for a used car and/or offering anything less then KBB on your trade would be insulting too? - BUT IT IS A BUSINESS THAT FUNCTIONS ON IMPULSIVE/NIAVE BUYERS.

Perhaps I should have rephrased " a bit rich" with something else. What I meant was, 'makes me feel like I'm taking the p**s.' But still, of course, you're right, their offer prices are insulting too.

Like I said, I'll give it a shot. Unfortunately, around here there aren't a lot of cars that are on the lot for very long. That might be a disadvantage.

 

[mustard]

Perhaps I should have rephrased " a bit rich" with something else. What I meant was, 'makes me feel like I'm taking the p**s.' But still, of course, you're right, their offer prices are insulting too.

Like I said, I'll give it a shot. Unfortunately, around here there aren't a lot of cars that are on the lot for very long. That might be a disadvantage.

I didn't mean to comment brashly but I think you got the overall point - but the only dumb question is an un-asked one. You aren't looking to make a friend but finding a deal - think garage sale (You rummage through someone's "crap" and find something you want marked $5 bucks but offer $4 because that is all you are willing to spend, they will take it if they truly value it as "crap" and want to get ride of it).

If a car is on the dealers lot for more than a week they aren't functioning at their potential capacity - that being the case shopping during the work week will usually lend yourself to getting an answer you want. They are by nature slow during the week (at least during business hours), so I suggest check out the local dealerships after hours or on the weekend (when they are closed) if you find something you like try to take a day off of work and head to the dealership first thing that morning which will give you the opportunity for a test drive/walkaround and taking it to a mechanic while still giving you enough time to wrap up the deal the same day if the cards align.

 

[jayb2000]

You are looking for used, so this won't completely help, but similar to what Mustard said...
In 2002 I was buying a new VW Passat wagon. I looked at any number of pricing plans, discounts, etc. I found out that AAA and Costco both had a program where you could get the car for $500 over invoice.

So, I went to the dealer, said something like "Look, they have these programs, but they get their cut, plus it is more paperwork for you."
Sell it to me for $300 over invoice and I will buy it this minute.

Was it the absolutely craziest, below invoice, deal ever!!! No, but it was almost 3k below sticker and much lower than most people would have paid.

The point is, even on $500 bucks, they are making a decent profit. So, stick to your guns and don't fall in love with the car. It is just a car and another one will come along.

Also, instead of RAV4, what about a Subaru Forester? Better ground clearance, longer wheelbase, more power, and same mileage.

 

[yojitani]

You are looking for used, so this won't completely help, but similar to what Mustard said...
In 2002 I was buying a new VW Passat wagon. I looked at any number of pricing plans, discounts, etc. I found out that AAA and Costco both had a program where you could get the car for $500 over invoice.

So, I went to the dealer, said something like "Look, they have these programs, but they get their cut, plus it is more paperwork for you."
Sell it to me for $300 over invoice and I will buy it this minute.

Was it the absolutely craziest, below invoice, deal ever!!! No, but it was almost 3k below sticker and much lower than most people would have paid.

The point is, even on $500 bucks, they are making a decent profit. So, stick to your guns and don't fall in love with the car. It is just a car and another one will come along.

Also, instead of RAV4, what about a Subaru Forester? Better ground clearance, longer wheelbase, more power, and same mileage.

Family's been sick last couple of days so no progress... but thanks for this extra bit of encouragement. I don't have anything against the Forester - it gets the job done - though both my wife and I aren't too keen on the style. For me, that's not a deal breaker. I'd much rather something work well. But my wife on the other hand... sigh .

 

[jayb2000]

Family's been sick last couple of days so no progress... but thanks for this extra bit of encouragement. I don't have anything against the Forester - it gets the job done - though both my wife and I aren't too keen on the style. For me, that's not a deal breaker. I'd much rather something work well. But my wife on the other hand... sigh .

yeah, its not sexy, I was just thinking it would be more fun to drive.
Figure almost same amount of room and within 100lbs, but like 30 or 40 more horsepower and torque.

Good luck with whatever you pick!

 

[ErikCLDR]

You are looking for used, so this won't completely help, but similar to what Mustard said...
In 2002 I was buying a new VW Passat wagon. I looked at any number of pricing plans, discounts, etc. I found out that AAA and Costco both had a program where you could get the car for $500 over invoice.

So, I went to the dealer, said something like "Look, they have these programs, but they get their cut, plus it is more paperwork for you."
Sell it to me for $300 over invoice and I will buy it this minute.

Was it the absolutely craziest, below invoice, deal ever!!! No, but it was almost 3k below sticker and much lower than most people would have paid.

The point is, even on $500 bucks, they are making a decent profit. So, stick to your guns and don't fall in love with the car. It is just a car and another one will come along.

Also, instead of RAV4, what about a Subaru Forester? Better ground clearance, longer wheelbase, more power, and same mileage.

I do not recommend any VW vehicle if you plan to keep it more than 60,000 miles. We have a Touareg and it has been horrendously unreliable. As soon as its warranty runs up, its gone. In 3x,000 miles how many time can you change the same light bulb? Answer: Many. I can't even tell you how many times the right side license plate light has been replaced. I don't think any of other cars have ever needed that part. An oil change is extremely expensive too.

My uncle had a VW passat v6 and he hated it. Not reliable and had screwy headlights that would sometimes work and sometimes not work. He ended up trading it in for a Murano. My other uncle has a passat 1.8t. He is getting rid of it pretty soon because of its horrendous reliability, very high repair costs, and $70 oil changes on a 1.8L engine.


What about a used Nissan Pathfinder. They might cost a lot, but if you're not too tall they are pretty nice cars.

 

[yojitani]

Well, the hunt continues. We haven't found a vehicle we are happy with yet so we are starting to look further afield (out of state). I was wondering if anyone out there knows about buying out of state, in particular if I am taxed in a different state how that works. I bought my current car in Missouri and was not taxed a the dealership. instead, I paid out of pocket here in Iowa. I DON'T want to do that again!

Also, in case anyone is interested, we've pretty much narrowed it down to a 2006 RAV4 or a 2003 ~ CRV.

I drove a 2006 Outlander yesterday and while it drove well (better than the RAV and the CRV), the mpg is not great, so it's a distant 3rd.

Cheers!
YT

 

[yojitani]

Yeah! Finally bought a car yesterday. We ended up taking a trip to chicago since everything is overpriced out here.

Got a RAV4 4X4 2006 with 11,000 miles




Thanks for all the tips!

 

[adk]

and $70 oil changes on a 1.8L engine.

Tell him to quit taking it to the dealer, then. First off, for that much money and with that engine they had better be putting synthetic in it, which according to VW should last 6 months 10,000 miles. A full synthetic oil change should run about $50 - $55 at a valvoline or the like, and there is no advantage in taking the car to the dealership. I used to have a Jetta that called for 5W-40 oil (very hard to find in the US) and not even the dealer put in the right stuff.