Buying a Macbook Air. Ram question

[Mike MA]

OS X has required 2GB RAM since Lion (2011). So there have been... 4?... versions that have not required more memory.

Not to say that it won't require more memory eventually, but 2GB is a huge amount of RAM. I'm hard pressed to think of anything they might add to the OS that would cause it to require much more than that.

Well, that's talking about the software requirements and not memory management. I rather had memory consumption in my mind when putting parallel workloads onto the system.

 

[motrek]

Well, that's talking about the software requirements and not memory management. I rather had memory consumption in my mind when putting parallel workloads onto the system.

Not sure exactly what you're referring to.

I can't imagine there's any significant amount of memory overhead for running a process/thread regardless of which version of OS X you're talking about.

If you're talking about how the OS divides up memory between the programs you're running, and how much memory it keeps free, this is done based on various heuristics which I'm sure Apple tweaks and tests according to total RAM available. There's no reason why they would stop optimizing for lower-memory computers.

 

[lazydog]

Holy cow. I had no idea about the price differentials abroad. No wonder the decision to go from 4-8 gig is so much more fraught for others. Is it that significant in the online refurbished store as well in your home country?

No... Apple actually charges €120 for the 8GB upgrade... take a look at apple.de (this has come up in a different thread before where the high cost differential was calculated by comparing the price of discounted 4GB Air models from a retailer to the price of current 8GB models on the Apple store).

b e n

 

[lazydog]

OS X has required 2GB RAM since Lion (2011). So there have been... 4?... versions that have not required more memory.

Not to say that it won't require more memory eventually, but 2GB is a huge amount of RAM. I'm hard pressed to think of anything they might add to the OS that would cause it to require much more than that.

 

[lazydog]

Me? Yes, absolutely.

Nothing I do during my typical daily use gets my memory pressure into the "yellow zone" and I can't think of a reason why that would change in the next 3 years. The memory requirements for my major software/apps (OS X, XCode, Photoshop, Chrome) haven't changed in a meaningful way in the last 2-3 years and I can't think of any concrete reason why they would change in the next 2-3 years.

The only time I've seen yellow memory pressure is when I was working on a print ad for one of my apps, which was a super-high-resolution project with high bit depth and many layers. More memory would have made the work somewhat faster, but not a lot faster, and I only had to do that job once. So I wouldn't spend money to optimize for that case.

But, actions speak louder than words and I can tell you that I very deliberately bought a new MBA with 4GB last year, even though I could have easily afforded the 8GB model, and I fully expect it to work well for the next several years.

BTW, software that I always have open and use frequently: Chrome, XCode, Terminal, TextWrangler, iTunes, Activity Monitor, Messages, Skype, Mail, iOS Simulator, and often Photoshop.

That all being said, of course I'm not trying to make a case that 4GB is enough for everyone. Certainly some people will see major benefits from more RAM. Not me, though. This doesn't bother me at all the way it seems to bother some people. I don't consider the need for more RAM a sign of manliness. I'll put the "manliness" of my computer usage up against anybody else's any day of the week.

Hi
I don't think 8GB has anything at all to do with manliness. It's simply about deciding whether your Mac will run better for you with more than 4GB and whether the upgrade to 8GB is worth the extra $100/£80/€120.

I wish you all the best with living in 4GB in 2018!

b e n

 

[MRrainer]

Well, here around a 13" MBA 4GB/128 can be had for what translates to 1027 USD. From Apple's online store, the 8GB version of the same model costs 1279 USD (incl. the local VAT).
Germany has 19% VAT, I've only got 8% ;-)
Various resellers offer some discounts (in the 50 USD range) on the upgraded models, but nothing to lose sleep over.
And yes, the refurb store here is bare most of the time (except for time capsules and airport expressi)

 

[Meister]

No... Apple actually charges €120 for the 8GB upgrade... take a look at apple.de (this has come up in a different thread before where the high cost differential was calculated by comparing the price of discounted 4GB Air models from a retailer to the price of current 8GB models on the Apple store).

b e n

Correct. However the base macbook air is always on sale with saturn/mediamarkt. Just like best buy in the US.

 

[motrek]

Hi
I don't think 8GB has anything at all to do with manliness. ...

There are a lot of people on this forum and elsewhere who think that 4GB is only suitable for email and watching cat videos on YouTube.

 

[lazydog]

Correct. However the base macbook air is always on sale with saturn/mediamarkt. Just like best buy in the US.

Hi Meister,

Yes, I think though the same could be said for most countries if not all, so there is nothing particularly more extortionate about where you live.. Anyway, going by saturn.de this morning it looks to me that the base model is discounted by 55 euro's...(I can't read German but I have to say your English is excellent!), so if you want to calculate the price of an upgrade to 8GB this way it would put it at 175 euros.

b e n

 

[Mike MA]

Not sure exactly what you're referring to.

I can't imagine there's any significant amount of memory overhead for running a process/thread regardless of which version of OS X you're talking about.

If you're talking about how the OS divides up memory between the programs you're running, and how much memory it keeps free, this is done based on various heuristics which I'm sure Apple tweaks and tests according to total RAM available. There's no reason why they would stop optimizing for lower-memory computers.

The latter is exactly my thought. And according to your actual memory size, the cross app memory management is balanced by the OS with different scenarios dependent on your actual storage, where the lower memory capacity always is a compromise in terms of performance and memory consumption.

 

[Meister]

That appears to be less of a language, but rather a problem with arithmetic.
At this moment at saturn.de: €944 (4gb)
At this moment apple.de: €1219 (8gb)

That makes a €285 difference with my maths.

The base Air is regularly on sale for €899.
Which gives us a difference of €340.
At the market around the corner I've seen it as low as €770, which would be a €469 difference.

So the price difference for 8gb ram is in fact somewhere between 280 and 470 Euros.

 

[Mike MA]

The latter is exactly my thought. And according to your actual memory size, the cross app memory management is balanced by the OS with different scenarios dependent on your actual storage, where the lower memory capacity always is a compromise in terms of performance and memory consumption. Sure Apple is tweaking this, but systems tend to larger memory capacities and though the OS heuristics as you call them.

 

[lazydog]

That appears to be less of a language, but rather a problem with arithmetic.
At this moment at saturn.de: €944 (4gb)
At this moment apple.de: €1219 (8gb)

That makes a €285 difference with my maths.

The base Air is regularly on sale for €899.
Which gives us a difference of €340.
At the market around the corner I've seen it as low as €770, which would be a €469 difference.

So the price difference for 8gb ram is in fact somewhere between 280 and 470 Euros.

Yes I apologies for my maths, I was comparing the price of a 4GB 13" to an 8GB 11". Still, I think, comparing prices from across discount stores and shops around the corner etc is a bit confusing when talking about how much Apple charges for an 8GB upgrade.

b e n

 

[Meister]

Yes I apologies for my maths, I was comparing the price of a 4GB 13" to an 8GB 11". Still, I think, comparing prices from across discount stores and shops around the corner etc is a bit confusing when talking about how much Apple charges for an 8GB upgrade.

b e n

Why would anyone be confused?
It's the only real life comparison, because it reflects the actual money you have to pay.

 

[lazydog]

Why would anyone be confused?
It's the only real life comparison, because it reflects the actual money you have to pay.

Well it has caused confusion! Anyway, it's the same wherever you are as there are always deals to be had. At the end of the day though the price of the upgrade doesn't affect whether or not you would benefit from having it and to what extent (which is what this thread is about if I remember correctly). The only thing the price affects is whether you think the upgrade is worth it. Don't forget there is always the option of buying used too.

Anyway, I'm done with this particular point!!!

thanks

b e n

 

[Dsching]

4gb goes a long way for most people, but if the upgrade is only $100 it's not a bad decision either.
We know now that El Capitan will run on 2gb and RAM requirements do not look like they are going to increase anytime soon.

 

[motrek]

Well it has caused confusion! Anyway, it's the same wherever you are as there are always deals to be had. At the end of the day though the price of the upgrade doesn't affect whether or not you would benefit from having it and to what extent (which is what this thread is about if I remember correctly). The only thing the price affects is whether you think the upgrade is worth it. Don't forget there is always the option of buying used too.

Anyway, I'm done with this particular point!!!

thanks

b e n

There are a lot of people on this forum who recommend getting the 8GB model, not for any concrete reason, but just to "futureproof" the machine and because it doesn't cost that much ($100). But if you work in the real-world price of the upgrade ($150-$200 in the US, seems to be more in some other countries) then maybe people would think twice about buying the upgrade for no immediate reason.

 

[joeblow7777]

I wish you all the best with living in 4GB in 2018!

b e n

That may not be as much of a problem as people seem to think. Not too long ago I was mainly using a netbook with 2GB of RAM. You know what's changed about my computing needs and the software that I run since then? Not that much. If you don't need to run heavy duty applications or need 50 browser tabs open at once, 4GB of RAM is actually a lot to have. Even the newest operating systems like Windows 10 and El Capitan are designed to run on systems with just 2GB.

My current notebook which I got a few months ago has 8GB because price wasn't an issue so I figured, might as well. But if price is an issue and your computing needs are moderate, I think 4GB or RAM can serve a person well enough for the foreseeable future.