Buying a new camera

[tonho]

I've been really pissed since i bought my macbook. Macbook is GREAT! The problem is my dvd sony handycam witch is crap! I have this camera for almost 1 year now!
It was alright when I was using Windows movie maker to edit it, although it has some quality loss. But now, with the mac and using the final cut pro.. this camera is useless 🙁
I'm new with mac.. so i've been researching all about it. Specially this movies and edition part. I COULDn't FIND HOW TO IMPORT DE BLODY VIDEOS FROM DE MINI DVD!!! Thats Su$%#!!!

Any way! get over!! I'm buying a new one and try to sell my old one.. witch won't be easy lol.. 🙁

I could effort some thing around $1.200
I had a look on the canon HF10! ti seems pretty good, and also the Sony Handycam HDR-CX7.

The question is! witch one would best to manipulate with mac and final cut pro? or any other camera suggestions?
I'm looking towards make it as profession! I know that cameras around $4.000 and 6.000 are the best.. but need some thing to start! with quality!
thanks heaps!!!!

 

[mcavjame]

You have a couple of options:
- whatever camera you purchase, get a camera with a Firewire (1394) interface. Many new consumer level cameras communicate via USB only. Hard drive and disk based cameras transfer the footage as compressed files. Not that DV is uncompressed, just not to that extent.
- And/or Invest in a capture deck. If you are looking to go pro, you will always have customers who want to include some old footage from any variety of pre-existing formats. Something like a Canopus ADVC 110 will allow you to capture any RCA source and make the input look like a camera connection to Final Cut or other editing software.

 

[ArthurDaley]

If you are after quality surely it is the tape based model you are after the HDR-HC7???

Tape wins on archival purposes, quality and is no problem to import the files.

 

[tonho]

If you are after quality surely it is the tape based model you are after the HDR-HC7???

Tape wins on archival purposes, quality and is no problem to import the files.

No problems to edit with final cut pro as well?

This HDR-HC7 seems pretty good!! Do you agree?
Any similar one and cheaper?

You have a couple of options:
- whatever camera you purchase, get a camera with a Firewire (1394) interface. Many new consumer level cameras communicate via USB only. Hard drive and disk based cameras transfer the footage as compressed files. Not that DV is uncompressed, just not to that extent.
- And/or Invest in a capture deck. If you are looking to go pro, you will always have customers who want to include some old footage from any variety of pre-existing formats. Something like a Canopus ADVC 110 will allow you to capture any RCA source and make the input look like a camera connection to Final Cut or other editing software.

thats nice!! The Canopus ADVC 110 should work with my dvd camera as well!! Does it?

thanks!

 

[ArthurDaley]

No problems to edit with final cut pro as well?

This HDR-HC7 seems pretty good!! Do you agree?
Any similar one and cheaper?

Obviously you can import from iMovie or FCP direct from camera.

It sounds to me like you want to brush up on what it is your after before buying so maybe check out www.videohelp.com

 

[nutmac]

I could effort some thing around $1.200
I had a look on the canon HF10! ti seems pretty good, and also the Sony Handycam HDR-CX7.

Since you are looking at AVCHD, limit your candidates to 3rd generation AVCHD camcorders. 3rd generations have significantly improved video quality, almost as good as HDV.

Canon's 3rd generation AVCHD camcorders are HF10 and HF100 and Sony's are HDR-SR10, HDR-SR10D, HDR-SR11, HDR-SR12, and HDR-TG1.

 

[ArthurDaley]

I think he wants HDV but just not realise it. Plus I don't think he realises he wants tape.

 

[tonho]

Since you are looking at AVCHD, limit your candidates to 3rd generation AVCHD camcorders. 3rd generations have significantly improved video quality, almost as good as HDV.

Canon's 3rd generation AVCHD camcorders are HF10 and HF100 and Sony's are HDR-SR10, HDR-SR10D, HDR-SR11, HDR-SR12, and HDR-TG1.

Thanks man!!!
its probably a HDV what I want. I'm just questioning what is relevant to chose the right camera? ..besides the price..

Its some thing that i want to start with... learn and become a pro.
filming and editing.. Not movies.. focusing in advertisement and marketing, promotions and personal clips, to be watched through the internet and dvds!!!

cheers!

 

[tonho]

I think he wants HDV but just not realise it. Plus I don't think he realises he wants tape.

HDV!!!!
ok, could you explain then?
We've got on the market the HDV cameras; using hard drivers or tapes. Right?
Why should i want tape?

Seriously .. i'm leaning!! all help is appreciate!!
thanks!

 

[cpcarrot]

Get the Canon HV20 or the updated HV30, great little camera that fits in your budget. Very easy to import footage into a macbook as well, just connect the firewire and then log and capture.

At the moment HDV is a better format than AVCHD, but probably not for much longer. Once the data rates get up lifted, and they are increasing all the time, HDV will be left behind thanks to AVCHD's general ease of use (although some people will still like tapes as they are convenient for archieving, but once people get used to using things such as off site backups, extrnal hard drives, and the like that I imagine will fade). BUT at the moment HDV is better quality than any AVCHD camera I've seen and still the best choice in that sort of price range. You just got to live with the fact that you have to go through the capturing process which is a fair bit longer than simple drag and drop...

 

[nutmac]

Tapes = HDV, which uses MPEG-2 (25 Mbps max) at 1440x1080 resolution.
Flash memory & HDD = AVCHD, which uses H.264 MPEG-4 (generally 15-17 Mbps max) at 1920x1080 (max) resolution.

Because AVCHD uses more advanced codec (same as QuickTime) than HDV (which is the same as DVD), in theory, it can deliver better or as good quality as HDV with lower bitrate. Canon's 3rd generation AVCHD clocks in at 17 Mbps max. At this bitrate, I think the quality is nearly as good as comparable HDV, just a hair worse (noticeable under low light). In addition, because AVCHD uses more complex algorithms, it demands more processing power, which may results in worse battery life and faster computer for editing.

I've casually compared two of Canon's latest offerings, HV30 (HDV) and HF100 (AVCHD). Although two are similar in many respect, HV30 has more features and better ergonomics. For instance, HF100 lacks viewfinder and employs toy-like joystick control. To be fair, HV30's viewfinder is pretty lousy, but it has superior jog wheel control.

Performance wise, they were pretty similar, except under low lighting situation as mentioned earlier. It may be due to HV30's slightly larger image sensor than codec implementation differences, however.

HF100 is obviously more portable of the two, but HV30 is plenty small and its heft may lend to more stable hand held use for some.

In the end, I actually preferred HF100 over HV30. I've had problems with MiniDV camcorders in the past. Aside from lens motor, HF100 doesn't have any electrical moving parts and performance is just about the same for my needs. I wish its ergonomics and feature sets were on par with HV30, but I dig its portability and full 1080p resolution. Converting AVCHD video to Apple Intermediate Codec for editing is a bit annoying, but I have to do the same with HV30 (at least under iMovie '08).

That said, HDV still maintains a slight edge over AVCHD. I predict 4th generation AVCHD will probably close any gap.

 

[harcosparky]

HDV!!!!
ok, could you explain then?
We've got on the market the HDV cameras; using hard drivers or tapes. Right?
Why should i want tape?

Seriously .. i'm leaning!! all help is appreciate!!
thanks!

I'm learning as well.

A tape based camcorder from what I have read performs better ( image wise ) than other media. Another plus for tape - it appears that there are issues with importing AVCHD format video with some computer configurations. Read through the threads here, I have and the conclusion I have come to is " AT THIS TIME ", the HDV format ( tape ) performs better.

I did notice a lack of HDV models out there, and manufacturers seem to want to load camcorders up with features that most will not use. Most laughable are the Digital Zooms, why on earth do they put Digital Zooms on a camera.

What would be really cool would be for Canon to make an HDV Camcorder with interchangeable lenses, and an adapter allowing Canon EOS SLR Camera lenses to be used. Funny I had an older Canon HI-8 Camcorder that had this feature.

Some 'predict' AVCHD will equal or surpass HDV in a year, maybe.

I am at this time leaning towards the Canon HV30, but to be honest this is because it is the only one I can find in stores.

 

[cpcarrot]

Canon do make cameras with interchangable lenses, but they are quite a bit more expensive than the HV20:

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-XL-H1-D...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1208346611&sr=1-1

Is an example.

And you can also get an adaptor to fit 35mm lenses from your EOS shuld you so desire:

http://www.cinevate.com/website/index.php
http://www.letusdirect.com/
http://www.redrockmicro.com/
http://www.sgpro.co.uk/

I would agree with you HDV is currently better in terms of quality and useability in that price range. In a year? I would hope AVCHD has overtaken it. So buying now, go HDV (and the Canon HV30 is a very good example in that price range). In a year, look for those 4th generation AVCHD cameras.

 

[tonho]

I'm learning as well.

A tape based camcorder from what I have read performs better ( image wise ) than other media. Another plus for tape - it appears that there are issues with importing AVCHD format video with some computer configurations. Read through the threads here, I have and the conclusion I have come to is " AT THIS TIME ", the HDV format ( tape ) performs better.

I did notice a lack of HDV models out there, and manufacturers seem to want to load camcorders up with features that most will not use. Most laughable are the Digital Zooms, why on earth do they put Digital Zooms on a camera.

What would be really cool would be for Canon to make an HDV Camcorder with interchangeable lenses, and an adapter allowing Canon EOS SLR Camera lenses to be used. Funny I had an older Canon HI-8 Camcorder that had this feature.

Some 'predict' AVCHD will equal or surpass HDV in a year, maybe.

I am at this time leaning towards the Canon HV30, but to be honest this is because it is the only one I can find in stores.

hehe! well, i reckon i wont wait a year! Probably buying the hv30 I should be alright for a couple of years! And then try thinks more professional! Would u agree?


Thanks for you post man! Really helps!

 

[tonho]

Canon do make cameras with interchangable lenses, but they are quite a bit more expensive than the HV20:

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-XL-H1-D...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=photo&qid=1208346611&sr=1-1

Is an example.

And you can also get an adaptor to fit 35mm lenses from your EOS shuld you so desire:

http://www.cinevate.com/website/index.php
http://www.letusdirect.com/
http://www.redrockmicro.com/
http://www.sgpro.co.uk/

I would agree with you HDV is currently better in terms of quality and useability in that price range. In a year? I would hope AVCHD has overtaken it. So buying now, go HDV (and the Canon HV30 is a very good example in that price range). In a year, look for those 4th generation AVCHD cameras.

Well then, wouldn't be a bad idea to wait.

I was thinking.. to use the windowsface on my mac and import the videos from my dvd camera... would it work through the USB?

 

[harcosparky]

Well I won't wait .... I mean after all it's just someone else's 'prediction'.

If you bought HDV right now and in a year ACVHD does match it, will that render your HDV camcorder useless? Try telling that to all those MiniDV camcorder users out there today.

Here is one issue not taken into account with the HDD camcorders ...

You are limited to the HDD in the camcorder for storage, once that fills up you must download to another device to use the camcorder again. At least with tape you are only limited to how many tapes you have.

But if and when ACVHD surpasses HDV I do have one wish .....

Please camera makers....put a USB port on the camera that can access and EXTERNAL HDD so that I can attach say a 250GB USB Pocket Drive to the camcorder, or at least put a respectable sized drive in the camera to begin with.

I still think Canon, et. al., could manufacture and affordable HDV Camera BODY with their respective SLR lens mount that would not eat into their 'pro' camera sales. ( I would like this as I have an extensive collection of Canon lenses available )

 

[nutmac]

Read through the threads here, I have and the conclusion I have come to is " AT THIS TIME ", the HDV format ( tape ) performs better.

At this time is nearly now. Like I said, 3rd generation AVCHD camcorders (particularly from Canon) performs on nearly par with HDV camcorders. Pros may notice, but for home video enthusiasts, the video quality differences between HDV and 3rd generation AVCHD are minuscule at best.

You are limited to the HDD in the camcorder for storage, once that fills up you must download to another device to use the camcorder again. At least with tape you are only limited to how many tapes you have.

You can just move the data to external hard disk, DVD, etc. In fact, you should do this on a regular basis, much like one would with digital cameras. Or insert memory card to expand shooting capacity.

 

[harcosparky]

At this time is nearly now. Like I said, 3rd generation AVCHD camcorders (particularly from Canon) performs on nearly par with HDV camcorders. Pros may notice, but for home video enthusiasts, the video quality differences between HDV and 3rd generation AVCHD are minuscule at best.


You can just move the data to external hard disk, DVD, etc. In fact, you should do this on a regular basis, much like one would with digital cameras. Or insert memory card to expand shooting capacity.

Since beginning this quest ( buying a new camcorder ) a few points come up to be considered.

1) Moving data to an external HDD is fine, assuming you have that gear with you when you "need" it. I carry enough stuff already what with cameras, tripods, lenses. I used to carry a laptop to 'dump' images from CF cards, but now I carry five 8 GB flash cards and do not need the laptop. Five CF cards are much easier to carry. Can you dump data from the camcorder to an external USB drive without the need for a laptop?

2) In reality I believe AVCHD won't work for me, primary reason is the camcorders are a shard resource here. Three people can use one or more at any given time. My son often carries two down to DC for projects he works on and video he shoots may be handed off to another individual to be spirited off for rapid post work and distribution.

So in retrospect, for our use at this time, tape makes more sense.

Maybe a flash based AVCHD camera could be viable, removable media is the key for us. As to the performance issue, for myself it may not matter but video my son shoots is often times handed off to others for use in broadcast work. The people he works with seem to prefer tape. He is actually trying to acquire in the used market a couple of the TRV-DCR17 MiniDV camcorders because he likes the one we have so well, and I must say it has proven itself to be a robust camcorder. Bought it when it first came out, it has been, used, abused, and misused but dang it still records like the first day we got it.

From what I have seen out there of the MiniDV offerings, camcorders currently don't seem to be built as well.

Oh yeah I remember an acquaintance telling me the following .....

Removable media is extremely important when you are shooting a street scene the authorities may not want you to shoot and you need the video off in a hurry!

 

[nutmac]

Oh yeah I remember an acquaintance telling me the following

Removable media is extremely important when you are shooting a street scene the authorities may not want you to shoot and you need the video off in a hurry!

3rd generation AVCHD camcorders with HDD, such as Sony HDR-SR11, has hybrid recording feature. It can record to either internal HDD or flash memory card.

 

[harcosparky]

3rd generation AVCHD camcorders with HDD, such as Sony HDR-SR11, has hybrid recording feature. It can record to either internal HDD or flash memory card.

Thanks .... funny thing I just got back from playing with a Sony SR11 at Best Buy.

I liked the 'feel' if the unit, cost may be a minor consideration.

Sony SR11 - $1055
Canon HV30 - $879

Actually the difference isn't all that mcuh. I guess it comes down to feature/benefit.

I guess the next question is " how well does the Sony play with Mac? FCP? iMovie? "

 

[tonho]

Thanks .... funny thing I just got back from playing with a Sony SR11 at Best Buy.

I liked the 'feel' if the unit, cost may be a minor consideration.

Sony SR11 - $1055
Canon HV30 - $879

Actually the difference isn't all that mcuh. I guess it comes down to feature/benefit.

I guess the next question is " how well does the Sony play with Mac? FCP? iMovie? "

That’s a good question... I'll wait for that!

I' m just reading and comparing about theses tow cameras.
Here we go with some questions:

Sony SR11 :

Sony's newly designed CMOS image sensor delivers bright, vivid, and spectacularly detailed 5 mega pixel (effective) video footage, as well as 10.2 mega pixel still image.

This 5 mega pixel video footage... Is this really important? makes the diference?

12x zoom its good! Although, between 10 isn't that much!

“Hybrid Recording to Hard Disk Drive or Memory Stick® Media”. That’s good!


HV30:
"Canon has marketed this as a feature that online video producers can take advantage of. Most video sharing sites down-convert the frame rate to 15fps, which can lead to a choppy image. Footage shot at 30fps can be neatly halved, unlike other frame rates."
Could you explain that?
I think that’s the point that I was looking for! I really think to work besides the internet, online videos and online productions. But of course... never forgetting the DVD!


I think I arrived in a conclusion! I reckon it won’t really make much difference for me, on my stage (on quality footage meters), if it’s a HDV or an ACVHD… Especially because my intention is LEARN and then upgrade it to professional levels.
And what would meter is how I want to manage the files… As cpcarrot said:
“You just got to live with the fact that you have to go through the capturing process which is a fair bit longer than simple drag and drop...” I particularly would prefer just drag and drop…

Maybe sony SR11 would be the best options as an ACHD… but then we come back at the question: how well does the Sony play with Mac? FCP? iMovie? Because if it means quality loss… I’ll stick with cannon... witch seems to work really well with mac.

 

[tonho]

In the end, I actually preferred HF100 over HV30. I've had problems with MiniDV camcorders in the past. Aside from lens motor, HF100 doesn't have any electrical moving parts and performance is just about the same for my needs. I wish its ergonomics and feature sets were on par with HV30, but I dig its portability and full 1080p resolution. Converting AVCHD video to Apple Intermediate Codec for editing is a bit annoying, but I have to do the same with HV30 (at least under iMovie '08).
That said, HDV still maintains a slight edge over AVCHD. I predict 4th generation AVCHD will probably close any gap.

With the HV30 i'll also have to convert before starts edditing with FCP??