Buying then Downloading, What do you Think?

What do you think?

  • Legal

    Votes: 12 25.5%
  • Illegal

    Votes: 25 53.2%
  • On the fence

    Votes: 10 21.3%

  • Total voters
    47

monke

macrumors 65816
Original poster
May 30, 2005
1,438
2
When you buy a product, do you believe it is legal to download it and use it until you get your actual product?

The idea came off this thread in which petvas had bought Leopard, and then when it came out on torrents yesterday, he downloaded it.

What do you think?

(If this was supposed to be in the Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum, could a mod please move it there? Thanks.)
 

0098386

Suspended
Jan 18, 2005
21,576
2,908
On the fence. On one hand there's nothing wrong. You're getting the software, they're getting your money. Just because it's from a different source shouldn't be important. After all Steam and other apps don't offer you boxed games, they have online versions which cost less and save on packaging.

I'd actually be happier if Apple did something like that. Packaging, whilst nice to look at, adds to the cost and they have to ship it out etc. A cheaper download version that you could pre-load, then unlock (a la Steam) the minute it's released would be worlds of awesome.

But they won't and it's another story so...
 

synth3tik

macrumors 68040
Oct 11, 2006
3,955
2
Minneapolis, MN
I guess more appropriate would be "Illegal, but couldn't care less" I think most people agree that downloading software from torrents is illegal, but many happily admit they don't care.
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
21,922
169
Clearly illegal: and to paraphrase CanadaRAM, it's because you haven't accepted the licensing agreement... you know, that annoying bit of pointless text that no-one bothers to read and everyone tries to fast forward through or get to the 'Accept' button. Sometimes, it's the tiny print that says 'all rights reserved'

Problem is, is that's the law and the terms of agreement you sign up to, to use the software, watch the video or listen to the CD.
 

ntrigue

macrumors 68040
Jul 30, 2007
3,805
1
One license per one CPU. He can download as many reiterations as he pleases on that CPU. Senseless but not illegal.
 

monke

macrumors 65816
Original poster
May 30, 2005
1,438
2
/off topic

monke that is an excellent avatar
Thanks. I got the idea from a Windows XP one (go figure) and couldn't put it that here, so I had to remake it. :D

Back on topic now...

If I really want the software/movie/cd, then I'll buy it. In most cases there's a trial version for software, and previews for movie's and cd's. Those are enough to get and idea for what you are buying. When you buy something and then download it, you are downloading it illegally. You haven't got your product yet, and thus shouldn't be able to use it. It would be like ordering a new iMac and using it before it got to your house. Don't ask me how that would happen, it's just an example. ;)
 

0007776

Suspended
Jul 11, 2006
6,474
8,164
Somewhere
it is definitely illegal, plus if you are torrenting it then you are also uploading to other people who are probably less "honest" than you and have not paid for it.
 

CalBoy

macrumors 604
May 21, 2007
7,849
37
I'm in the 'illegal' camp as well. Just because you've given your credit card number to Apple doesn't mean that the contract has been formalized yet. In addition, the method of obtaining the software implies that you were the third party in an on-going violation of contract law. Just because you didn't put it up to be torrented doesn't mean that you aren't just as guilty. You're enjoying the fruits of another violator's violation; still illegal.
 

Much Ado

macrumors 68000
Sep 7, 2006
1,533
1
UK
One license per one CPU. He can download as many reiterations as he pleases on that CPU. Senseless but not illegal.
A) CPU means Central Processing Unit, so presumably if you have, say, a dual G5...

B) This aside, that's still not quite right is it?
 

motulist

macrumors 601
Dec 2, 2003
4,080
346
I voted legal, but not because it actually is legal, but because I think you meant to ask a different question. There's no question about whether it is legal or illegal, according to the law it is definitely illegal, there's no shade of grey about it. I think the question you meant to ask is:

Is it okay to download software you've paid for while waiting for it to arrive?

() It's fine
() no, it's wrong
() not sure
 

cwedl

macrumors 65816
Jun 5, 2003
1,398
26
In the eyes of the software company its illegal, regardless of if you own it. or not
 

yetanotherdave

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2007
1,767
3
Bristol, England
Do remember that torrents are a two way street. You may have bought a box set and are just downloading out of impatience, but that means you are also uploading, and you have no idea who to. I can garuntee you that at least one of them has not bought leopard, so you are facilitating software piracy, even though technically you are not pirating it.
 

motulist

macrumors 601
Dec 2, 2003
4,080
346
Do remember that torrents are a two way street. You may have bought a box set and are just downloading out of impatience, but that means you are also uploading, and you have no idea who to. I can garuntee you that at least one of them has not bought leopard, so you are facilitating software piracy, even though technically you are not pirating it.
Although the particular user in this situation used torrents, the poll doesn't say a single thing about torrenting, that's not part of the poll question. There are a ton of ways to DL software without using p2p sharing.
 

yetanotherdave

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2007
1,767
3
Bristol, England
Nobody said a single thing about torrenting in this poll, that's not part of the question. There are a ton of ways to DL software without using p2p sharing.
Yes, someone can host it and just have people download it straight off the server.
I bet it's not happening though. Every single leopard downloading will be happening via torrent or p2p, anyone that puts the iso or dmg on a server for direct download is going to have their server hosed within minutes.
 

juanm

macrumors 68000
May 1, 2006
1,572
2,987
Fury 161
I guess it's legally illegal, but the company, as long as you pay your license, and install it once shouldn't care whether you installed it from some torrent or from a authentic hologram cd. Another issue would be that you've downloaded it, installed, then bought, and you'd still be able to sell it unsealed. In this case, the company is losing money.
 

motulist

macrumors 601
Dec 2, 2003
4,080
346
Yes, someone can host it and just have people download it straight off the server.
I bet it's not happening though. Every single leopard downloading will be happening via torrent or p2p, anyone that puts the iso or dmg on a server for direct download is going to have their server hosed within minutes.
I'm not talking about web servers either. I'm not gonna go into any details for obvious reasons, but a LOT of illegally downloaded material comes from sources other than p2p or web servers. Every single leopard download will NOT be happening via torrent or p2p. Just because a person downloads a piece software, it does not imply he is also sharing that software with others.
 

yetanotherdave

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2007
1,767
3
Bristol, England
I'm not talking about web servers either. I'm not gonna go into any details for obvious reasons, but a LOT of illegally downloaded material comes from sources other than p2p or web servers. Every single leopard download will NOT be happening via torrent or p2p. Just because a person downloads a piece software, it does not imply he is also sharing that software with others.
Those routes are far from mainstream and usually invite only. The fact that the vast majority of downloads also involves an upload is a consideration for the majority of people who might be considering downloading their pre-order.
Downloading illegitimate software DOES imply an upload, although it doesn'y necessarily mean that is the case.
 

motulist

macrumors 601
Dec 2, 2003
4,080
346
Those routes are far from mainstream and usually invite only. The fact that the vast majority of downloads also involves an upload is a consideration for the majority of people who might be considering downloading their pre-order.
Downloading illegitimate software DOES imply an upload, although it doesn'y necessarily mean that is the case.
You're wrong. Perhaps a majority is p2p, but not nearly as big a majority as you think. As I said, I'm not gonna go into details about these alternate routes here, but believe me, they are very significant, not invite only, and not web or p2p. Illegally downloading does NOT imply uploading as well.
 

yetanotherdave

macrumors 68000
Apr 27, 2007
1,767
3
Bristol, England
You're wrong. Perhaps a majority is p2p, but not nearly as big a majority as you think. As I said, I'm not gonna go into details about these alternate routes here, but believe me, they are very significant, not invite only, and not web or p2p. Illegally downloading does NOT imply uploading as well.
I'm no internet n00b, I keep up with stuff, digg.com slashdot etc. There may be a large non p2p filesharing community, but it is unknown to 99% of internet users. I came accross d****** ******t a few years ago. There were restrictions like a 10gig minimum limit on sharing and minimum bandwidth used, whch keeps it to a few hardcore users.
It may not imply uploading to you, but to the vast majority of people it does. What are the main filesharing methods people know? limewire, kazzaa & bittorrent. These are the main download networks and all involve p2p technology.
 

motulist

macrumors 601
Dec 2, 2003
4,080
346
I'm no internet n00b, I keep up with stuff, digg.com slashdot etc. There may be a large non p2p filesharing community, but it is unknown to 99% of internet users. I came accross d****** ******t a few years ago.
YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG!!!!

I don't know why you're being so closed minded, but whether you accept it or not, your claims are totally wrong. I have no idea what the heck d****** ******t is, but it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. 99% of all illegal downloads are NOT taking place over p2p. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean that a ton of other people don't know about it.

I'm not gonna respond to you about this again because apparently you can't or are unwilling to accept the possibility that you're wrong and that there are things out there that are significant but that you don't know about. So I'm gonna say it just one more time.

Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant, a LOT of illegal downloading goes on via methods that are not p2p or any of the other methods you're referring to. Illegally downloading software DEFINITELY does NOT imply uploading it as well.
 

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