Buying then Downloading, What do you Think?

Discussion in 'Community Discussion' started by monke, Oct 24, 2007.

?

What do you think?

  1. Legal

    12 vote(s)
    25.5%
  2. Illegal

    25 vote(s)
    53.2%
  3. On the fence

    10 vote(s)
    21.3%
  1. monke macrumors 65816

    monke

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    #1
    When you buy a product, do you believe it is legal to download it and use it until you get your actual product?

    The idea came off this thread in which petvas had bought Leopard, and then when it came out on torrents yesterday, he downloaded it.

    What do you think?

    (If this was supposed to be in the Politics, Religion, Social Issues forum, could a mod please move it there? Thanks.)
     
  2. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #2
    No. Just wait like everyone else, for God's sake.
     
  3. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Location:
    Fighting to stay in the EU
    #3
    On the fence. On one hand there's nothing wrong. You're getting the software, they're getting your money. Just because it's from a different source shouldn't be important. After all Steam and other apps don't offer you boxed games, they have online versions which cost less and save on packaging.

    I'd actually be happier if Apple did something like that. Packaging, whilst nice to look at, adds to the cost and they have to ship it out etc. A cheaper download version that you could pre-load, then unlock (a la Steam) the minute it's released would be worlds of awesome.

    But they won't and it's another story so...
     
  4. synth3tik macrumors 68040

    synth3tik

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2006
    Location:
    Minneapolis, MN
    #4
    I guess more appropriate would be "Illegal, but couldn't care less" I think most people agree that downloading software from torrents is illegal, but many happily admit they don't care.
     
  5. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    #5
    Clearly illegal: and to paraphrase CanadaRAM, it's because you haven't accepted the licensing agreement... you know, that annoying bit of pointless text that no-one bothers to read and everyone tries to fast forward through or get to the 'Accept' button. Sometimes, it's the tiny print that says 'all rights reserved'

    Problem is, is that's the law and the terms of agreement you sign up to, to use the software, watch the video or listen to the CD.
     
  6. ntrigue macrumors 68040

    ntrigue

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2007
    #6
    One license per one CPU. He can download as many reiterations as he pleases on that CPU. Senseless but not illegal.
     
  7. Frozentoast macrumors 6502

    Frozentoast

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2007
    #7
    Although illegal, my personal belief is that it is morally acceptable having paid.
     
  8. xUKHCx Administrator emeritus

    xUKHCx

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2006
    Location:
    The Kop
    #8
    That is pretty much my stance as well.

    /off topic

    monke that is an excellent avatar
     
  9. monke thread starter macrumors 65816

    monke

    Joined:
    May 30, 2005
    #9
    Thanks. I got the idea from a Windows XP one (go figure) and couldn't put it that here, so I had to remake it. :D

    Back on topic now...

    If I really want the software/movie/cd, then I'll buy it. In most cases there's a trial version for software, and previews for movie's and cd's. Those are enough to get and idea for what you are buying. When you buy something and then download it, you are downloading it illegally. You haven't got your product yet, and thus shouldn't be able to use it. It would be like ordering a new iMac and using it before it got to your house. Don't ask me how that would happen, it's just an example. ;)
     
  10. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2006
    Location:
    Somewhere
    #10
    it is definitely illegal, plus if you are torrenting it then you are also uploading to other people who are probably less "honest" than you and have not paid for it.
     
  11. CalBoy macrumors 604

    CalBoy

    Joined:
    May 21, 2007
    #11
    I'm in the 'illegal' camp as well. Just because you've given your credit card number to Apple doesn't mean that the contract has been formalized yet. In addition, the method of obtaining the software implies that you were the third party in an on-going violation of contract law. Just because you didn't put it up to be torrented doesn't mean that you aren't just as guilty. You're enjoying the fruits of another violator's violation; still illegal.
     
  12. Much Ado macrumors 68000

    Much Ado

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2006
    Location:
    UK
    #12
    A) CPU means Central Processing Unit, so presumably if you have, say, a dual G5...

    B) This aside, that's still not quite right is it?
     
  13. motulist macrumors 68040

    motulist

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2003
    #13
    I voted legal, but not because it actually is legal, but because I think you meant to ask a different question. There's no question about whether it is legal or illegal, according to the law it is definitely illegal, there's no shade of grey about it. I think the question you meant to ask is:

    Is it okay to download software you've paid for while waiting for it to arrive?

    () It's fine
    () no, it's wrong
    () not sure
     
  14. cwedl macrumors 65816

    cwedl

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2003
    #14
    In the eyes of the software company its illegal, regardless of if you own it. or not
     
  15. zap2 macrumors 604

    zap2

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2005
    Location:
    Washington D.C
    #15
    Illegal...do is really care?....no, but still illegal
     
  16. yetanotherdave macrumors 68000

    yetanotherdave

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    #16
    Do remember that torrents are a two way street. You may have bought a box set and are just downloading out of impatience, but that means you are also uploading, and you have no idea who to. I can garuntee you that at least one of them has not bought leopard, so you are facilitating software piracy, even though technically you are not pirating it.
     
  17. motulist macrumors 68040

    motulist

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2003
    #17
    Although the particular user in this situation used torrents, the poll doesn't say a single thing about torrenting, that's not part of the poll question. There are a ton of ways to DL software without using p2p sharing.
     
  18. yetanotherdave macrumors 68000

    yetanotherdave

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    #18
    Yes, someone can host it and just have people download it straight off the server.
    I bet it's not happening though. Every single leopard downloading will be happening via torrent or p2p, anyone that puts the iso or dmg on a server for direct download is going to have their server hosed within minutes.
     
  19. juanm macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Location:
    Fury 161
    #19
    I guess it's legally illegal, but the company, as long as you pay your license, and install it once shouldn't care whether you installed it from some torrent or from a authentic hologram cd. Another issue would be that you've downloaded it, installed, then bought, and you'd still be able to sell it unsealed. In this case, the company is losing money.
     
  20. motulist macrumors 68040

    motulist

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2003
    #20
    I'm not talking about web servers either. I'm not gonna go into any details for obvious reasons, but a LOT of illegally downloaded material comes from sources other than p2p or web servers. Every single leopard download will NOT be happening via torrent or p2p. Just because a person downloads a piece software, it does not imply he is also sharing that software with others.
     
  21. yetanotherdave macrumors 68000

    yetanotherdave

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    #21
    Those routes are far from mainstream and usually invite only. The fact that the vast majority of downloads also involves an upload is a consideration for the majority of people who might be considering downloading their pre-order.
    Downloading illegitimate software DOES imply an upload, although it doesn'y necessarily mean that is the case.
     
  22. motulist macrumors 68040

    motulist

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2003
    #22
    You're wrong. Perhaps a majority is p2p, but not nearly as big a majority as you think. As I said, I'm not gonna go into details about these alternate routes here, but believe me, they are very significant, not invite only, and not web or p2p. Illegally downloading does NOT imply uploading as well.
     
  23. twoodcc macrumors P6

    twoodcc

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Location:
    Right side of wrong
    #23
    same here. yeah it's clearly illegal, but should it be? that's the question
     
  24. yetanotherdave macrumors 68000

    yetanotherdave

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2007
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    #24
    I'm no internet n00b, I keep up with stuff, digg.com slashdot etc. There may be a large non p2p filesharing community, but it is unknown to 99% of internet users. I came accross d****** ******t a few years ago. There were restrictions like a 10gig minimum limit on sharing and minimum bandwidth used, whch keeps it to a few hardcore users.
    It may not imply uploading to you, but to the vast majority of people it does. What are the main filesharing methods people know? limewire, kazzaa & bittorrent. These are the main download networks and all involve p2p technology.
     
  25. motulist macrumors 68040

    motulist

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2003
    #25
    YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG, YOU'RE WRONG!!!!

    I don't know why you're being so closed minded, but whether you accept it or not, your claims are totally wrong. I have no idea what the heck d****** ******t is, but it has nothing to do with what I'm talking about. 99% of all illegal downloads are NOT taking place over p2p. Just because you don't know about it doesn't mean that a ton of other people don't know about it.

    I'm not gonna respond to you about this again because apparently you can't or are unwilling to accept the possibility that you're wrong and that there are things out there that are significant but that you don't know about. So I'm gonna say it just one more time.

    Whether you believe it or not is irrelevant, a LOT of illegal downloading goes on via methods that are not p2p or any of the other methods you're referring to. Illegally downloading software DEFINITELY does NOT imply uploading it as well.
     

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