Bye, Bye for now Apple, it has been fun!

[Technerd108]

I didn't know how to broach this subject because I am not writing this based on one OS or hardware's superiority. I like Mac's. They are beautiful, functional and powerful. They are a rip off to a certain extent, I hate Apple's business practices and manufacturing. I hate a lot of things within the various OS that Apple develops. But I love a lot of it too. Not the first sentence but the second, The OS is pretty sweet, and the various devices all have great software and hardware. Apple is pretty much King in terms of the "Best". The best security, the best design, the best cpu/gpu in mobile, and so much more. So I am no hater of Apple. But over time things have gotten to a point where I either hobble along and deal with it or I vote with my dollars to hopefully start to make a change.

I am one person so I am meaningless to Apple but if enough people in a similar situation as I am do what I do then it will start to hurt Apple's bottom line and then they might pay attention and start to change.

I am talking about the ladder and lock in. Two things I hate most about Apple right now. There equipment in some cases is objectively better but not in all areas. The ladder is the technique of upselling the customer by holding back certain features that are not costly but hamper user experience in such a way a user wants to go up the ladder to the better model, then they will want better than base specs. Everything pushes you up the ladder and gets progressively more expensive. Ram/SSD upgrades anyone? Pro motion only on a pro device although pro motion would enhance the overall experience of all users and is not a pro level feature in other brand devices. This pushes many consumers to buy an iPad Pro over an iPad Air when they really only need an air for their use case.

Lock in we all know the Apple ecosystem is great. Say you have an iPhone a Mac and an iPad. They all work great together and you can share files, make calls and texts from any device. Say you get an Android phone and keep the rest. Now your entire ecosystem is broken and no longer can you do any of the things you could with your iPhone. Even though you bought the Mac and iPad and should have the same functionality no matter the phone or computer you use but Apple locks you in and gimps your experience on purpose so you don't buy anything other than Apple products. Apple could easily offer some basic compatibility and basic feature sharing but they don't. They could still offer more features for Apple products but give all basic compatibility and save special features for Apple to encourage people to buy Apple rather than just have it wreck their experience.

So it is been a long time coming but I have decided to let go of my Mac and iPad and just go Windows and Android for a while. I don't know if I will go back to Apple because until they change I would be forced to go all in or nothing. I don't want to buy something and have half the features work because of free choice. The convenience for lock in is a bargain I am no longer willing to make and I shouldn't. Apple should want their products to work well with other products just from a business use perspective.

I know a lot of people don't care about this issue or even like it and it makes them feel exclusive or special in a special group or club. But I want to use multiple different devices together and not have to have separate ecosystems. So I will stay on Windows/Linux/Android side of things. I may be back because I still like Apple. Then I could talk cost. I can't afford to keep two separate platforms, it has become too expensive in this economy for me. I can get so much more ram and ssd and better hardware with a couple of exceptions for a lot less than Apple. Sure a 16" MBP with M3 Pro is a better laptop than my 16" Samsung GalaxyBook 4 Pro 360 in some ways but it costs a lot more and is a lot heavier and the Ultra is available if I needed graphic horsepower and it is still cheaper than equivalent MBP. Obviously Intel has not caught up with m series yet. Although Meteor lake is a huge step in the right direction it is NOT YET equivalent to M3 in all areas. But the difference in terms of performance and battery life are so much better than before that Intel is now in m series ballpark. Intel has to get to 4nm probably before they will be competitive directly but by then who knows how advanced Apple m series will be. But in my opinion it is not about having the absolute best but good enough. Specially if I am saving over $1000. I personally think Intel is finally good enough. Room for a lot of improvement-yes. But good enough I can go a whole day without worrying about charging and I can get the same performance on battery as plugged in if I adjust settings and battery life is still good enough. Maybe I get 6-8 hours slamming the machine on battery vs 10-12 if I am not. I can deal with those numbers. What sucked before was 3-6 hours average battery life with 1-2 on heavy use and a big difference throttled on battery no matter the settings. That is a huge improvement.

So I have settled on two devices since I have to have a back up device no matter what platform and I like a 14" and 16" for different taks. I was going to get a 14" chromebook but they suck so much in terms of getting a nice chromebook that doesn't cost $1000. So in order to get a fast and responsive Chromebook with a decent ssd, ram, and processor, decent bright screen and speakers in something other than plastic you are looking at $1000 and the specs still aren't as good as a comparable priced Windows laptop. So I ditched that idea and decided on two Windows laptops, one Android tablet, an Android phone, an android watch and some ear buds. They all work flawlessly together and have more features than are available in an Mac.

So my two laptops have OLED 120hz touchscreens with AR coating and variable refresh rate and a hardened glass. You can't get anything like it on any Mac no matter how much you spend. I have a pencil or stylus with every major device I own. S pen on phone, tablet and PC. Not available on Mac or iPhone. Then there are new AI features like a circle to search feature in Windows!!

I will sell all my Apple stuff and end up paying a little out of pocket but I will be happy with everything I own. Samsung and HP give generous specs for the cost compared to Apple. I have a 2tb drive on the HP and 1tb drive on Samsung and Samsung gave me a free 2tb portable ssd. If I were to try to get just a 2tb drive it would cost a lot.

Apple products are really great but both Android and Windows OEM's have drastically improved on their top end devices the design, quality and materials to get close or even surpass Apple.

If I were to go all in on Apple with only one laptop, one iPad, one watch and ear buds it would cost me at least double and I would half the specs in order to do it with lesser hardware in some areas. M3 would be faster in some ways but not all. M3 Pro or better is faster and better in battery life but at the price point of pro m3 and decent specs cost gets prohibitive specially in the 16" which I would want but it is such a heavy beast. It is close to 5 pounds while my 16" GB4 is only 3.5 pounds. Big difference. And the GB4 still feels solid and has an objectively better screen for everything but brightness.

So while I will miss Apple and I have no hard feelings I am pretty confident with my choice. I have been using computers since before Apple 2 and Windows 95. I remember DOS and green and amber CRT screens. So I am very comfortable in any computing environment from flashy GUI to Text prompts. Apple and Unix have always been more complex for me to use because there are more steps for me to take toa accomplish the same task in Windows. Linux is very similar to Unix but some interfaces can look a lot like Windows. And I really like the ability to use Linux if I want to on my laptop.

I may visit a Chromebook again when they get some more compelling devices. I really like ChromeOS and being able to use a full Linux install within ChromeOS is very cool. The hardware just needs to catch up. I am not paying $600 for a laptop with EMMC storage or a celeron processor. I can't stand 250nits 45%ntsc screens!! Like put an ultra 7 155h 16gb ddr5x ram, 120hz Oled touch screen, minimum 256gb nvme pci4 ssd. all in a nice aluminum build. Priced at say $799. It would be the perfect Chromebook but now we got crap.

So Windows and Android for now....

 

[turbineseaplane]

A ton of us really longtime Apple users resonate with the OP

 

[apostolosdt]

One of the longest posts I ever came across but I managed to read it all. While I understand the personal approach in your post, I feel that the Apple—user relationship is not just black-or-white. And, please, bear with me with this rather long response.

In my family, we all started with PCs and Windows. My wife worked over the Internet, I wanted Linux and access to TeX for my writings. We still recall and laugh at my wife’s struggle and patience with her PC’s breaking down or losing contact while in the middle of a meeting with her company; or the noise of two PCs running in the same house.

Then, she decided to buy a 24” iMac—and it was a revelation! Sooner or later, we all moved to the Apple world and remained there for the next 20 or so years. That iMac has now been replaced by MBPs and an M1 model. I, on the other hand, moved to Mac Pro machines with no regret.

Well, except with the iPhones. I use an iPhone SE (2015); my wife, until recently, used an iPhone 6. When it stopped updating some apps she needed, she reluctantly moved to Samsung. Why? Because they are comparable function-wise and much, much cheaper. I dread the moment my SE will break down, for I would like to remain with iPhones.

So, my family likes Apple but we are not addicted. I am expecting a Studio to replace my 21.5” 2019 Retina. As someone remarked in another post here, when were we able to buy a modern Mac Pro machine with only $1999?

We are not naive; we know what Apple does with its business tactics. But, when I compare the Windows 11, runnnig as a VM, with the host Sonoma, I say to myself, “Stay with Apple—for now”.

 

[Technerd108]

One of the longest posts I ever came across but I managed to read it all. While I understand the personal approach in your post, I feel that the Apple—user relationship is not just black-or-white. And, please, bear with me with this rather long response.

In my family, we all started with PCs and Windows. My wife worked over the Internet, I wanted Linux and access to TeX for my writings. We still recall and laugh at my wife’s struggle and patience with her PC’s breaking down or losing contact while in the middle of a meeting with her company; or the noise of two PCs running in the same house.

Then, she decided to buy a 24” iMac—and it was a revelation! Sooner or later, we all moved to the Apple world and remained there for the next 20 or so years. That iMac has now been replaced by MBPs and an M1 model. I, on the other hand, moved to Mac Pro machines with no regret.

Well, except with the iPhones. I use an iPhone SE (2015); my wife, until recently, used an iPhone 6. When it stopped updating some apps she needed, she reluctantly moved to Samsung. Why? Because they are comparable function-wise and much, much cheaper. I dread the moment my SE will breaks down, for I would like to remain with iPhones.

So, my family likes Apple but we are not addicted. I am expecting a Studio to replace my 21.5” 2019 Retina. As someone remarked in another post here, when were we able to buy a modern Mac Pro machine with only $1999?

We are not naive; we know what Apple does with its business tactics. But, when I compare the Windows 11, runnnig as a VM, with the host Sonoma, I say to myself, “Stay with Apple—for now”.

Sorry I am rather long winded.

I understand everyone has a unique perspective which is why I tried to start my post by saying I am not trying to bash Apple but rather call them out.

I appreciate not everyone shares my perspective and am not trying to impose my feelings on anyone else.

Appreciate your perspective.

 

[Sheepish-Lord]

Nice post and I share some similar view points. There's days it would be nice to have Windows but for the day-to-day, there's very few Windows laptops that match the quality of any MacBook. I'm so used to little or no fan noise, amazing battery life, full power regardless of charging, resell value, and we all know the rest. I had a Surface Pro that blue screened out of the box and then heard the fan spin up just browsing the web and realized why I left. If I did go back to Windows it would be a PC, but those are obviously not silent either.

As far as Android phone or tablet, the only one I would consider is a Googles due to Samsungs bloatware. However, Pixel long term use proves to be questionable and with Google's volatility you just never know how responsive they are going to be when it comes to issues. Their tablet isn't really geared toward being an iPad competitor.

Ecosystem really plays the biggest part. Apple makes it way too convenient for a lot of things and the only alternative to a similar "walled garden" is Google and they are just making a lot of bad moves lately.

 

[zkap]

I am aware of Apple's shortcomings and I agree with a lot of what OP said. Personally, I am in the Apple ecosystem because of three specific reasons. The first is that I detest Windows and Microsoft with a passion so I know that I will be a Mac user for as long as I am using computers and macOS is available. Then, since I will be using a Mac, I may as well use an iPhone. The second reason is that I am not one for much customization. While I recognize that a lack of customization is a bad thing, I personally would not change much about the appearance of my iPhone so Apple cutting our options short in this department doesn't bother me. Thirdly, I appreciate the fact that whenever I do something on my Mac / iPhone / iPad, it is immediately visible on other devices in the ecosystem as this is done through stock apps, so I know these apps will always be around free of charge, included in the operating system. I use some third party apps, but it's not the same because some work / sync better than others and I enjoy having the same look and feel across my iPhone and iPad, and I would not have this if I got an Android device.

Still, it's important to recognize that Android, objectively speaking, is overall better because you get better specs for less money. Again, emphasis on "objectively" and "overall" because that leaves out certain subjective or specific reasons why you prefer Apple, like I do. If we go by the features on offer and how the tech world is progressing, then it's intellectually dishonest to claim that Apple is not falling behind the rest. In Apple world, you will get consistent long-lasting devices and a uniform experience across the ecosystem, but those devices will lack some things that are otherwise ubiquitous in the tech space. I mind this, but not enough to transfer to Android. I am happy with my experience in the ecosystem and I don't even have a big problem with Apple's higher margins as their way of designing hardware and software suits me, but I do wish Apple would stop being so petty and start introducing features and improving specs across devices.

Computers in 2024 shouldn't start with 8GB or RAM, even if that is enough today for the average user. ProMotion should be available on most devices, except maybe the least expensive tier. It's things like this that are my main gripe with Apple. I am not unreasonable so I can accept that a company is looking for higher margins and so naturally they will use certain features to attract users to high-end devices, that's all well and good. My problem here is that they withhold specs and features for too long, they go too far. If ProMotion was introduced in 2017, how is it possible that iPhones costing a thousand euros do not have this feature in 2024? Why? As OP said, this feature is not "Pro" in any way and it enhances the overall user experience, something Apple prides themselves on. It's just one clear example of how Apple can find new lows when they're digging for profit margins. We as users understand that a company will want to make money, but it should be reasonable - limit / withhold a feature for a year or two to increase profits on it, but then pass it along the line-up so more users can enjoy a better experience, and move on to the next thing. Elevate the overall user experience by not allowing your customers to go years without features that should be considered a must for a high-end brand.

 

[apostolosdt]

[...] Computers in 2024 shouldn't start with 8GB or RAM, even if that is enough today for the average user. [...]

My only Mac with 8GB RAM is a base Mini M1. It's annoying to see that machine exceed my Mac Pro's Geekbench score and still lag with serious work like Matlab or PS. But of course, the Mac Pro runs on 64GB. And that promotional slogan by Apple that its 8GB RAM is equivalent to 16 on Intel machines? A RAM is a RAM.

[Note added: I guess high-tech minds will remind me of all the other qualities of a good RAM, like bandwidth or speed of access. OK, agreed, but in practice what a user needs is space to run his/her apps and avoid swapping that kills the SSD.]

 

[RSB96]

I've been using the Apple ecosystem for most of my life (I'm young, 27 years old). My first Apple device was an iPod nano, when I was 9 years old, in 2007.

My dad bought the iPhone 3GS in 2009 and I flipped out with that phone. When my dad bought the iPhone 4 the following year, I kept his iPhone 3GS. And so to this day (although I've had Android phones, like the Xperia Z, the HTC One M7, Samsung Galaxy S6 Edge, S8, Pixel 7 Pro and 8 Pro).

I've had iPads since the first generation. And it's my favorite Apple device, even with its issues.

My first Mac, was a 15" MacBook Pro from 2010, and I fell in love with Mac and Apple.

I still love Apple and its ecosystem, but it is true that in recent years I feel more distanced from the brand. My first disappointment was the MacBook Pro 2016, whose performance and autonomy were very disappointing for the price they had. I returned it and bought an iPad Pro with keyboard and since then I had never had a MacBook again. I recently bought a MacBook Pro M3 Pro and the fact is that this is the memory I had of my wonderful MacBook Pro 15" from 2010.

I use the Apple ecosystem and its services a lot. Apple Maps seems to me better than Google Maps as of today, especially for navigation on foot and in the car.

However, using Android devices I have felt very comfortable and have seen many things that iOS and iPadOS don't have and that I don't understand why they are not there. They have excellent devices, with a better quality/price ratio. I love the Galaxy Tab S9 and I love the Pixel 8 Pro. With Windows I've never quite gotten comfortable and that's my main stumbling block. I've tried multiple PCs, desktops, laptops, but I don't like any of them.

I could make the move from iOS to Android and I wouldn't have much of a problem. I still prefer the iPad over Android for certain apps, especially for photo editing and drawing.

But for me macOS is much better than Windows. And that's something that for me is not going to change, no matter how much I have used it professionally and no matter how much Windows 11 goes well... I'm not convinced.

It's always good to see what's "on the other side". I think it was a "reality" check for me to see that Android has improved so much. I think being critical and seeing that both systems as of today are good (just like Windows and macOS) is positive for a "geek" user like most of us here.

Being locked in saying one is better than the other without really knowing what's on the other side is a mistake. Both systems are good and everyone should choose what best suits their day to day life.

For me, Apple's ecosystem still works better for me, especially because CarPlay seems to me better than Android Auto (although it needs major improvements), especially because it doesn't have as many connection problems and is more stable. Apple Music I like better than Spotify, Apple Maps seems to me better in navigation than Google Maps and Handoff, AirDrop, the universal clipboard ... are things that I use on a daily basis and that are invisible, but once you don't have them you miss them.

However, having Android devices I can see their evolution, and if someday I decide to take the step, it will be because I am aware of the gains and losses I will have.

 

[j26]

A long time ago I was a Mac user, but I switched to Windows for a long time.

I had a Windows PC, iPad Mini and Android phone. Last year I made the jump back to a Mac to streamline things a bit as I was sick of maintaining 3 OS's. I will most likely be sticking with Android phones.

The lock in is real, and I feel it significantly. There are many things that should work, but don't. I can't even send a file from my Android phone to my iPad via bluetooth. Apple seems to deliberately get in the way of a smooth experience. I've found ways around most frictions, but it shouldn't be so hard to make your devices work together.

The hoohaa here over opening the iOS store has me questioning whether I made the right choice to jump further into Apples ecosystem. Apple seems determined to prevent freer access and greater interoperability. At this point, if an Android manufacturer came out with a compelling small tablet, I could easily find myself switching from Apple again. The form factor of the iPad Mini is the big thing keeping me with Apple.

Best of luck in your Windows adventure.

 

[spamabyss]

I just ordered a Macbook Air M3 with 512/16GB for 1999€ here in Germany. I'm upgrading from a base M1 Air which has been nothing but exceptional and which was probably one of the best deals Apple has ever had, especially with it's frequent discounts to around 950€. I upgraded because I need the bigger screen real estate and don't want to use an external monitor. I'm torn on this as just like the OP said, there are many small things on Windows that just let me get work done a little quicker and smoother than with MacOs, and that is after I took the time to learn all the small shortcuts and frankly often quite unintuitive little workaround with Apple. And at the same time, every time I work on a Windows laptop, there's always something. Cluttered toolbars that install in the background, the system getting slower over time, a ****** trackpad, the laptop not reliably going into standby when closing the lid (I'm looking at you Dell XPS 13). And still, I would not want to go back. For one, the ecosystem integration for now is worth the price to pay for me. And secondly, I still trust Apple more from a privacy standpoint. One could argue that every major company can't be trusted. But with Apple I at least still have hope. With Google I'm 1000% sure that nothing is private.

And even for me, heavily invested in Apples ecosystem, I really just have to overlook the price when buying a Macbook Air for 2000€, knowing what I'd get in the Windows world. It's just getting harder to believe that Apple cares about it's customers, when it continues to offer 1500€ Laptops with a base 256/8GB storage and then asks 230€ for 8GB of extra ram and another 230€ for 256GB of extra SSD space. That really is the main gripe I have with Apple and it is at this point just not funny anymore, considering how much the prices for these components have fallen. So hopefully, one day Apple will not get away with their pricing ladder anymore. It might not go away but they at leas will lower the upgrade prices to something at least a little more reasonable. At least for me, that would alleviate one of the main issues I have with Apple at the moment and would make it a less bitter pill to swallow.

 

[Technerd108]

I just ordered a Macbook Air M3 with 512/16GB for 1999€ here in Germany. I'm upgrading from a base M1 Air which has been nothing but exceptional and which was probably one of the best deals Apple has ever had, especially with it's frequent discounts to around 950€. I upgraded because I need the bigger screen real estate and don't want to use an external monitor. I'm torn on this as just like the OP said, there are many small things on Windows that just let me get work done a little quicker and smoother than with MacOs, and that is after I took the time to learn all the small shortcuts and frankly often quite unintuitive little workaround with Apple. And at the same time, every time I work on a Windows laptop, there's always something. Cluttered toolbars that install in the background, the system getting slower over time, a ****** trackpad, the laptop not reliably going into standby when closing the lid (I'm looking at you Dell XPS 13). And still, I would not want to go back. For one, the ecosystem integration for now is worth the price to pay for me. And secondly, I still trust Apple more from a privacy standpoint. One could argue that every major company can't be trusted. But with Apple I at least still have hope. With Google I'm 1000% sure that nothing is private.

And even for me, heavily invested in Apples ecosystem, I really just have to overlook the price when buying a Macbook Air for 2000€, knowing what I'd get in the Windows world. It's just getting harder to believe that Apple cares about it's customers, when it continues to offer 1500€ Laptops with a base 256/8GB storage and then asks 230€ for 8GB of extra ram and another 30€ for 256GB of extra SSD space. That really is the main gripe I have with Apple and it is at this point just not funny anymore, considering how much the prices for these components have fallen. So hopefully, one day Apple will not get away with their pricing ladder anymore. It might not go away but they at leas will lower the upgrade prices to something at least a little more reasonable. At least for me, that would alleviate one of the main issues I have with Apple at the moment and would make it a less bitter pill to swallow.

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This has a haptic trackpad and goes on sale for $1499. Comes with a 120hz OLED anti reflective variable refresh rate touch screen 3k resolution, 32gb ddr5x ram, pci 4 nvme 2tb, great speakers and build, has windows hello camera and fingerprint reader. No it is no MBP 14" with M3 Pro but that costs $1999 with sales for $1799 with a 512gb ssd and 18 gb ram. It has M3 Pro. It is a better device for sure but how much better? If I got a similar config Mac it would be $2500! So the cost is not even close and the if I could afford the MacBook with the extra ram and ssd but then I would not have full use of the ecosystem so I can't win with Apple.

The privacy issue is so misunderstood. I have Windows 11 Home but with a simple registry addition I have disabled all telemetry. On top of that if you go into privacy settings you can turn off a lot of data collection. On a Mac you have to trust Apple because you can't turn off anything or alter anything deep within the OS. I can use Windows own firewall to see not only what apps but what processes are talking on my network. Google is selling all our data but what search engine are most people using on their iPhone anyway?

Also tech changes fast. Windows laptops have gotten a lot better but there is still a lot of junk but Asus, Samsung, HP and on a budget Acer make some nice devices. High end like $800 or more generally gets a solid device. At least with Windows you have a wide selection of brands and hardware to choose from.

 

[ApplesAreSweet&Sour]

A ton of us really longtime Apple users resonate with the OP

Agree.

And I overall agree with most of what was said.

It really is striking how much the “lock in” gets in the way of using and fully loving your Apple devices unless you have taken the “nobody should use anything but Apple” stance which is actually quite cultish if you really listen to it.

Obviously, Apple can’t be held accountable for the shortcomings of its competitors.

But from a more nuanced perspective, I don’t see how the Apple user experience can be as superior as so many claim it is when cross brand/platform compatibility is as weak as it is.

Simple things like texting, sharing files and collaborating on documents with non-Apple computers, tablets and smart phones is usually a pain and often requires third party apps or sly workarounds to make it tolerable.

I’m not asking Apple to open up all its products and match device integration with what it offers within its own ecosystem. Obviously, all brands will offer incentives for brand loyalty.

But as an Apple-only user, when working with a group of windows and android users, it’s bordering on the embarrassing when seeing how smoothly they can send files and communicate regardless of which brand their devices are, while all my Apple stuff is only truly smooth and reliable when working with other Apple users.

Sure, some of Apple’s security measures and proprietary file formats are technically superior to some extent. But if the rest of the tech industry uses other formats that are only a little less efficient but run on any platform, why would I opt for Apple’s proprietary one that needs to be converted for non-Apple devices to be able to run them?

Doesn’t feel like much of an advantage when considering real world applications and work scenarios.

I’m thinking about getting a cheap Windows PC or Android phone and seeing for myself if I can work them into my Apple-only setup. Or perhaps if I need to switch entirely.

I dont mind some level of “lock in”. But what Apple is doing is too much and fully taking away or partially hampering freedoms that every professional needs when collaborating with other professionals.

 

[Jim Lahey]

Apple is no longer interested in users or devices. It’s interested in selling services and shiny devices on which those services run. That’s it. The End.

 

[stocklen]

I didn't know how to breach this subject because I am not writing this based on one OS or hardware's superiority. I like Mac's. They are beautiful, functional and powerful. They are a rip off to a certain extent, I hate Apple's business practices and manufacturing. I hate a lot of things within the various OS that Apple develops. But I love a lot of it too. Not the first sentence but the second, The OS is pretty sweet, and the various devices all have great software and hardware. Apple is pretty much King in terms of the "Best". The best security, the best design, the best cpu/gpu in mobile, and so much more. So I am no hater of Apple. But over time things have gotten to a point where I either hobble along and deal with it or I vote with my dollars to hopefully start to make a change.

I am one person so I am meaningless to Apple but if enough people in a similar situation as I am do what I do then it will start to hurt Apple's bottom line and then they might pay attention and start to change.

I am talking about the ladder and lock in. Two things I hate most about Apple right now. There equipment in some cases is objectively better but not in all areas. The ladder is the technique of upselling the customer by holding back certain features that are not costly but hamper user experience in such a way a user wants to go up the ladder to the better model, then they will want better than base specs. Everything pushes you up the ladder and gets progressively more expensive. Ram/SSD upgrades anyone? Pro motion only on a pro device although pro motion would enhance the overall experience of all users and is not a pro level feature in other brand devices. This pushes many consumers to buy an iPad Pro over an iPad Air when they really only need an air for their use case.

Lock in we all know the Apple ecosystem is great. Say you have an iPhone a Mac and an iPad. They all work great together and you can share files, make calls and texts from any device. Say you get an Android phone and keep the rest. Now your entire ecosystem is broken and no longer can you do any of the things you could with your iPhone. Even though you bought the Mac and iPad and should have the same functionality no matter the phone or computer you use but Apple locks you in and gimps your experience on purpose so you don't buy anything other than Apple products. Apple could easily offer some basic compatibility and basic feature sharing but they don't. They could still offer more features for Apple products but give all basic compatibility and save special features for Apple to encourage people to buy Apple rather than just have it wreck their experience.

So it is been a long time coming but I have decided to let go of my Mac and iPad and just go Windows and Android for a while. I don't know if I will go back to Apple because until they change I would be forced to go all in or nothing. I don't want to buy something and have half the features work because of free choice. The convenience for lock in is a bargain I am no longer willing to make and I shouldn't. Apple should want their products to work well with other products just from a business use perspective.

I know a lot of people don't care about this issue or even like it and it makes them feel exclusive or special in a special group or club. But I want to use multiple different devices together and not have to have separate ecosystems. So I will stay on Windows/Linux/Android side of things. I may be back because I still like Apple. Then I could talk cost. I can't afford to keep two separate platforms, it has become too expensive in this economy for me. I can get so much more ram and ssd and better hardware with a couple of exceptions for a lot less than Apple. Sure a 16" MBP with M3 Pro is a better laptop than my 16" Samsung GalaxyBook 4 Pro 360 in some ways but it costs a lot more and is a lot heavier and the Ultra is available if I needed graphic horsepower and it is still cheaper than equivalent MBP. Obviously Intel has not caught up with m series yet. Although Meteor lake is a huge step in the right direction it is NOT YET equivalent to M3 in all areas. But the difference in terms of performance and battery life are so much better than before that Intel is now in m series ballpark. Intel has to get to 4nm probably before they will be competitive directly but by then who knows how advanced Apple m series will be. But in my opinion it is not about having the absolute best but good enough. Specially if I am saving over $1000. I personally think Intel is finally good enough. Room for a lot of improvement-yes. But good enough I can go a whole day without worrying about charging and I can get the same performance on battery as plugged in if I adjust settings and battery life is still good enough. Maybe I get 6-8 hours slamming the machine on battery vs 10-12 if I am not. I can deal with those numbers. What sucked before was 3-6 hours average battery life with 1-2 on heavy use and a big difference throttled on battery no matter the settings. That is a huge improvement.

So I have settled on two devices since I have to have a back up device no matter what platform and I like a 14" and 16" for different taks. I was going to get a 14" chromebook but they suck so much in terms of getting a nice chromebook that doesn't cost $1000. So in order to get a fast and responsive Chromebook with a decent ssd, ram, and processor, decent bright screen and speakers in something other than plastic you are looking at $1000 and the specs still aren't as good as a comparable priced Windows laptop. So I ditched that idea and decided on two Windows laptops, one Android tablet, an Android phone, an android watch and some ear buds. They all work flawlessly together and have more features than are available in an Mac.

So my two laptops have OLED 120hz touchscreens with AR coating and variable refresh rate and a hardened glass. You can't get anything like it on any Mac no matter how much you spend. I have a pencil or stylus with every major device I own. S pen on phone, tablet and PC. Not available on Mac or iPhone. Then there are new AI features like a circle to search feature in Windows!!

I will sell all my Apple stuff and end up paying a little out of pocket but I will be happy with everything I own. Samsung and HP give generous specs for the cost compared to Apple. I have a 2tb drive on the HP and 1tb drive on Samsung and Samsung gave me a free 2tb portable ssd. If I were to try to get just a 2tb drive it would cost a lot.

Apple products are really great but both Android and Windows OEM's have drastically improved on their top end devices the design, quality and materials to get close or even surpass Apple.

If I were to go all in on Apple with only one laptop, one iPad, one watch and ear buds it would cost me at least double and I would half the specs in order to do it with lesser hardware in some areas. M3 would be faster in some ways but not all. M3 Pro or better is faster and better in battery life but at the price point of pro m3 and decent specs cost gets prohibitive specially in the 16" which I would want but it is such a heavy beast. It is close to 5 pounds while my 16" GB4 is only 3.5 pounds. Big difference. And the GB4 still feels solid and has an objectively better screen for everything but brightness.

So while I will miss Apple and I have no hard feelings I am pretty confident with my choice. I have been using computers since before Apple 2 and Windows 95. I remember DOS and green and amber CRT screens. So I am very comfortable in any computing environment from flashy GUI to Text prompts. Apple and Unix have always been more complex for me to use because there are more steps for me to take toa accomplish the same task in Windows. Linux is very similar to Unix but some interfaces can look a lot like Windows. And I really like the ability to use Linux if I want to on my laptop.

I may visit a Chromebook again when they get some more compelling devices. I really like ChromeOS and being able to use a full Linux install within ChromeOS is very cool. The hardware just needs to catch up. I am not paying $600 for a laptop with EMMC storage or a celeron processor. I can't stand 250nits 45%ntsc screens!! Like put an ultra 7 155h 16gb ddr5x ram, 120hz Oled touch screen, minimum 256gb nvme pci4 ssd. all in a nice aluminum build. Priced at say $799. It would be the perfect Chromebook but now we got crap.

So Windows and Android for now....

An interesting post.

Full disclosure - im a dyed in the wool Apple man, and would not be able to entertain leaving... and I remain in the walled garden with my eyes open and quite happy to be here.

But, thats not to say that other things are dismissed out of hand.

In my past, pre Apple, I would change phones frequently - but this is the pre-iphone times when Nokia would bring out new models and new form factors and features multiple times a year and I upgraded twice a year to keep up with a rapidly evolving technology...

If I were an Android user, I think I would also be compelled to change more frequently or at least shop around and try other makes and models. I do worry about their privacy though and I am NOT an google apps user again down to privacy concerns. I trust Apple far more with my data and privacy than I do any Android device.

However, this will end up TL;DR so:

I cant and wont leave apple for 2 reasons:

1. I hate Windows. I have struggled too many times with machines that stop working or need rebuilding for no reason and also grappling with unwieldy anti-virus software. I am very happy with MacOS and have no wish to go back even though some windows machines do look really interesting.
2. Ecosystem. As an IT guy, I really appreciate the interoperability and interconnectivity between Apple devices - in many many ways and sometimes in ways you dont even realise are happening. I truly value that and would not want to lose that ever.

Is Apple perfect? No not by a long shot.... their machines are expensive and a lot of the time upgrades as uninspiring and incremental at best and it feels like they dont change much until you take a step back and see how they have evolved over a longer period of time.

So good luck back with Android and Windows - but I have a sneaking suspicion you may return at some point....

 

[DMG35]

We await your return, which will be sooner than later once you spend some time on those other platforms.

 

[Beeneeord]

This sounds totally like you will return soonishly.

You ain’t through with it.

 

[SpanishAppleNerd]

My short reply to a long post: This all is summarized in two words: PERSONAL TASTES. I wish you enjoy your tech, as I enjoy my brand new  devices. If you decide to come back in the future, you will be welcomed. If not, welcome to the forums nevertheless. Peace! ☮

 

[wib]

I can understand your feelings. I'm relatively new to Apple. I got a later generation iPod, and my first iPhone was the 5. I was so excited to get the iPad mini, then the 9.5 Pro (for the pencil), which I quickly switched for the 10.5 (that I'm hoping to pass on when I upgrade).

In Japan, we used to be on 2 year contracts to upgrade our phones and it was reasonably affordable. Then the prices rose dramatically, the notch appeared, and I was happy to hold onto my 7+ until last year when I got the 15 ProMax. When I bought my 7+ it was the best phone and cost around 75,000 yen, the 15 was 189,000! My 7+ is living a second life with a friend.

I'm hoping to buy the new iPad Air when it's released because I've realised I don't need a Pro for my use case. I will miss ProMotion though...It's hard to understand why it's being held back.

Meanwhile, I've never had a Mac of any type. I've always used Windows computers and somehow find them easier/more comfortable to use. I upload most of my important files I need on the move to Google Drive and then use that on my phone and iPad when I need them and it works for me. My current HP has a touchscreen and a stylus and after using it once, I stuck it back in the box. For me the 1st generation pencil is far superior. I have started glancing at the Microsoft Surface and wondering what it might be like in place of a laptop and iPad...

Changes are often incremental now and the prices are so high and the upsell is real. Apple is infamous for it, but they're not the only ones...

 

[j26]

I have started glancing at the Microsoft Surface and wondering what it might be like in place of a laptop and iPad...

My previous pc was a Surface Pro 7 and they're really good for my type of work. The Surface Laptop Studio looks quite impressive. The only thing that put me off was how much better the iPad Mini is for my particular needs. The small form factor just works for me. If that wasn't the case, I'd probably be holding my cash till the next Surface Pro, or even the Laptop Studio.

 

[one more]

OP, I can relate to quite a few points you are making, especially so after Apple’s recent farce of “compliance” with the EU’s DMA terms.

I also remember reading an article back about 10 years ago, describing Apple looking into more efficient ways of locking the users into the systems and making it less enticing or just more difficult to leave.

I also agree on your comment of Apple hardware being more expensive.

Why am I still with Apple after 18 years? For me, Apple’s approach to their software and hardware still remains more polished and elegant, compared to the rest. In my particular case, I choose better looks over function. I actually prefer Apple Maps new design over the rest, for example. Android skin designs look bleak in comparison.

I have a Windows machine at home (HP Spectre) and this rather expensive beast cannot even be upgraded to Windows 11, just because Microsoft did not get to approving its processor. So it is not all rosy on the other side either, IMO.

You sound happy with your new choices, so I wish you good luck with your new computing adventures. Meantime, I will be looking forward to seeing how Apple’s systems may evolve later this year.

 

[neuropsychguy]

I won’t address much of what you wrote. You have opinions, I have opinions. My setup is a MacBook Pro, a computer I built running Windows and Linux (mostly WSL but also dual booting), and then a university’s high performance cluster. I’m really agnostic about operating systems. I use what works for me.

However, I am unlikely to go back to using Windows laptops. I’ve used several over the years and always come back to Macs. The finish and quality of Mac laptops is so much better than most computers running Windows. That is unless you spend about the same money or more on a laptop running Windows. In that case, why would I buy a Mac alternative? Resale values also factor in to my decisions.

Desktops are a different issue for me currently. I game and use CUDA so I need a non-Mac. I could do all my gaming on a Mac (with a console added in), but I need CUDA so I’m stuck.

I did move away from Mac for a while but I found that doing so actually cost me more time and didn’t save me any money in the long run.

 

[Japan Ricardo]

I respect the OPs opinions, but vehemently disagree. As someone who was a Windows and Microsoft user, I know how easy the Apple ecosystem is to live in. Things do - by and large - 'just work'.

With Windows I was always dealing with a software or hardware problem. The two-finger scroll on the trackpad stopped working. The battery required replacing. Two of the keys came off. Microsoft Edge updated itself twice a week, and always confused me with its new look. Outlook was upgraded and made worse, with compulsory ads. I was constantly being reminded that Bing was not my default search engine, of the benefits of an Office 365 subscription and how near I was to my OneDrive capacity even though it was only 80%.

I could go on - brevity isn't the characteristic of this thread, I see - but now on my Mac I can just get on, uninterrupted. Good luck, OP. I have a feeling you'll be back, as the title of your thread acknowledged....

 

[Japan Ricardo]

I respect the OPs opinions, but vehemently disagree. As someone who was a Windows and Microsoft user, I know how easy the Apple ecosystem is to live in. Things do - by and large - 'just work'.

With Windows I was always dealing with a software or hardware problem. The two-finger scroll on the trackpad stopped working. The battery required replacing. Two of the keys came off. Microsoft Edge updated itself twice a week, and always confused me with its new look. Outlook was upgraded and made worse, with compulsory ads. I was constantly being reminded that Bing was not my default search engine, of the benefits of an Office 365 subscription and how near I was to my OneDrive capacity even though it was only 80%.

I could go on - brevity isn't the characteristic of this thread, I see - but now on my Mac I can just get on, uninterrupted. Good luck, OP. I have a feeling you'll be back, as the title of your thread acknowledged....

Oh. And all the restarts. Sometimes an update required a restart as part of a bigger restart...

 

[Japan Ricardo]

A long time ago I was a Mac user, but I switched to Windows for a long time.

I had a Windows PC, iPad Mini and Android phone. Last year I made the jump back to a Mac to streamline things a bit as I was sick of maintaining 3 OS's. I will most likely be sticking with Android phones.

The lock in is real, and I feel it significantly. There are many things that should work, but don't. I can't even send a file from my Android phone to my iPad via bluetooth. Apple seems to deliberately get in the way of a smooth experience. I've found ways around most frictions, but it shouldn't be so hard to make your devices work together.

The hoohaa here over opening the iOS store has me questioning whether I made the right choice to jump further into Apples ecosystem. Apple seems determined to prevent freer access and greater interoperability. At this point, if an Android manufacturer came out with a compelling small tablet, I could easily find myself switching from Apple again. The form factor of the iPad Mini is the big thing keeping me with Apple.

Best of luck in your Windows adventure.

Don't confuse Apple with the EU... They'll ban the iPad Mini soon...

 

[j26]

Don't confuse Apple with the EU... They'll ban the iPad Mini soon...

I really don't think so.