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This is the problem with the number of lawyers getting into politics. The solution to everything is to legislate.

The drudgery of enforcing existing laws, like criminal statutes, is just not that exciting compared with the introduction of a new bill that extends the reach of nanny into the actions of law abiding citizens and companies.

The slightly lesser problem is that they think they are more clever than the average bear, expressed by the thought from an earlier post
Because customers are stupid
and spraying furphies about armed robberies. In the real world, people point a gun at someone to rob them of whatever they have. They aren't specifically targeting smartphones. If it wasn't a smartphone, it would be some other exchangeable good.

At the moment, Apple has a quite robust anti theft system. It was made without the regulation of big brother/nanny to coerce Apple into including it. If the customer regards it as a worthy enhancement to their phone buying experience, they will buy an iPhone. The customer is not stupid, but right.
 
And of course whatever system is put into place will be immune from hackers and terrorists - so they can't shut down all the phones in an area before an attack, right?
 
@Entropys.

Well the point was that you can choose if you want to use the seatbelt or not, just as I guess you can choose not to lock your phone. Or your front door for that matter.

@Ronlap

Not sure I really got that statement :eek:
 
600 for stolen phones?!?! No fence in his right mind would pay 600 for a stolen iPhone. At best you are looking at ~100 for an iPhone.
Don't believe me, walk into a pawn shop and see what they will give you for a iPhone that isn't stolen.

Hmm OK cool story, meanwhile this one 32gb 5s sold for over $700:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-iPhon...1237537333?pt=Cell_Phones&hash=item27de8d7635

How does one that buys a phone on ebay know if the phone is legit or not? Why are there so many phones on ebay that are activation locked still selling for $200.
 
Yup. Hopefully iOS 7.1 will come with the requirement to enter the pass code to turn the device off. That would go a long way toward assisting recovery and deterring theft.

This have been discussed to death and I still don't understand what good a pass code requirement to turn the phone off would do when you can achieve what you want by using a different method, like removing the sim card from it's tray for example?
 
Horrible idea. Pretty soon there will be a list of CA certified phones so if you are not CA certified, then you can't sell the phone in CA. So to get certified will require all sorts of testing etc. Pretty soon manufacturers will not bother to certify in CA and then we will be limited to the phones we can buy and the price will be higher than in other states.

A perfect example is the CA DOJ handgun list. Because of the certification required in CA, Californians are limited to only certain brand and models and the prices are 20% higher than in other states. I am not a gun nut but this is an example of the state restricting free commerce, notwithstanding the pro and con gun argument.
 
If I want I sell a phone that doesn't have anti theft tech. why can't I? What if I don't want to put the time and money in to that? I hope this does not become a law

Then you pay $2500 to sell that device in fines.

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And if a company that has "anti theft" software built into their phones fails to locate or remotely kill a stolen device is that company now criminally liable?

Come on legislators....

Where did it say that?

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This is a perfect example of the government jumping in front of a parade and pretending to lead it. The FREE MARKET was taking care of this problem JUST FINE. Thank goodness they were there to waste all that money though. They must really care.

No they weren't. Being pressed from politicians led Apple to add the security features in ios7. Android hasn't done it yet. So the free market was not taking care of the problem, the free market was causing the problem by demand of stolen phones.
 
So being robbed at gunpoint is about "personal responsibility"? republican much?

What the frick is that supposed to mean? "republician much"?
This doesn't have crap to do with being robbed at gunpoint. It has to do about stolen tech
Can anybody else hear the loud cheering coming from Washington DC?

I hate to sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist, but I have a real problem with the ubiquity of kill-switches that the government is wanting to put into things now a days. All, of course, in the name of stopping crime.

It is just coincidence that the same government that will secretly spy on their own citizens and secretly require technology companies to hand over data on their users, while also making it illegal for them to ever state that it happened (the secret part is what I have an issue with).

So, call me paranoid, but once the government has a way to disable all cars, they have pushed for required kill switches in vehicles to stop criminals from using cars to get away and to deter theft, and a way to disable all phones, it is clear that all phones will be smartphones and require this with a handful of years, what is to stop it from "secretly" using that ability for purposes beyond what it was intended?

The simple fact is that I don't really trust big business, but I don't trust government at all.
What I don't understand is why people can't just vote to shut NSA down. We have controller over the government right?
Government answer: Of corse!
Real answer: NO
I'll bet if it was voted for NSA to shut down, they would fake it and run NSA in some sort of secret place.
tbh, the US government is hardly a republic. If thw government wants to do something, they'll do it, regardless of what you vote for.
 
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Can anybody else hear the loud cheering coming from Washington DC?

I hate to sound like a paranoid conspiracy theorist, but I have a real problem with the ubiquity of kill-switches that the government is wanting to put into things now a days. All, of course, in the name of stopping crime.

It is just coincidence that the same government that will secretly spy on their own citizens and secretly require technology companies to hand over data on their users, while also making it illegal for them to ever state that it happened (the secret part is what I have an issue with).

So, call me paranoid, but once the government has a way to disable all cars, they have pushed for required kill switches in vehicles to stop criminals from using cars to get away and to deter theft, and a way to disable all phones, it is clear that all phones will be smartphones and require this with a handful of years, what is to stop it from "secretly" using that ability for purposes beyond what it was intended?

The simple fact is that I don't really trust big business, but I don't trust government at all.


This
 
This is a perfect example of the government jumping in front of a parade and pretending to lead it. The FREE MARKET was taking care of this problem JUST FINE. ...

If the market was doing this then yo have no reason to complain because the law then would do nothing but requires the phone makers to do what they were already doing. Like making a law that all wheels must be round.

You you are WRONG, the cell phone companies hate this. They make a lot of money from theft. Every stolen phone means one more phone that get to sell to replace it.

The free market only works what buyers are perfectly informed and have a choice. Those conditions don't apply

Free market theory is mostly wrong or does not apply to much of the economy. Again because it makes assumptions that many times are not true

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....
A perfect example is the CA DOJ handgun list. Because of the certification required in CA, Californians are limited to only certain brand and models and the prices are 20% higher than in other states....

That was the plan with handguns, kick them out. Make then expensive enough no one buys and the sellers all close down. The law seems to be working. I think they should have simple taxed handguns, maybe $1K each

But disabling a phone is easy and adds no cost to the phone. It's just software. The phone companies the the idea because they all make money of theft. They sell a lot of replacement phones.

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And of course whatever system is put into place will be immune from hackers and terrorists - so they can't shut down all the phones in an area before an attack, right?

Yes. It is pretty much immune from such problems.

Do you know how it works? All they are doing is requiring you to type in your passcode to deactivate the phone. How is that come kind of problem>

I think people are complaining about things they don't understand.
 
Ebay

Why don't they go after ebay?

They allow people to sell phones that have blacklisted imei's or that have the lock active.

Also, they allow people to sell computers with 'pirated' software, and those idiots who sell it say you're getting $$$$ of software...what a great deal.....yeah, if you don't mind pirated software.
 
You you are WRONG, the cell phone companies hate this. They make a lot of money from theft. Every stolen phone means one more phone that get to sell to replace it.

You are WRONG. :D Every sale means the manufacturer gets to sell a phone to the cell phone companies to sell to replace it. SO WHAT? Unless you are implying either of these sources have something to do with thefts of cell phones, then WTF do they have to do with anything other than a potential lobby effort?

The point is that the CONSUMER should drive the features of cell phones. If consumers demand anti-theft features, they should only buy models that have it. This will send a message that those that don't have them won't make any sales. It should NOT be up to the government to try and legislate morality, anti-fat behaviors (by taking DIET soda away in sizes larger than x amount of ounces as they tried in New York right along with sugar soda, making no distinction less some lawyer try to sue them from the cellulite challenged angle or some other PC bullcrap), etc.

I'm not anti-government, however. Someone has to monitor human behavior when it can potentially affect other humans because you can't count on individual morality to do it. Thus, I think things that pertain to the overall public safety should be regulated and regulated well (e.g. banks and other money markets, food safety handling (I don't like e-coli in my ground beef) and drilling (yes, fracking DOES cause earthquakes. We had one epicentered dead-on the well in my state and I was one mile from it and it shook the building; the stuff they pump down there lubricates the plates and allows some to slip that wouldn't for thousands of years otherwise).

CORPORATIONS have proven they don't care about anything but money and that is because they are driven by shareholders whose ONLY concern is MONEY. They are soulless entities given the rights of human beings and that should change, IMO. Of course, it's also a reflection of society. Most people in society wold be just as evil, devious and treacherous if they were in the same positions as these people. Show me a good person and I'll show you a veneer with hidden evil below the surface 9/10 times. Most people follow the law out of FEAR, not love of "good". It's why religions inevitably fail. They teach "Fear of God" rather than "Love of Good". But without morality and ethics, society will continue to be a place where people in live in fear rather than comfort.

The point is you can't trust anyone. People are self-centered and thus can only be trusted to do what's best for them. You are right that the corporations would prefer whatever avenue makes them more money and if that means less or no anti-theft features, they will run to it unless the consumer refuses to buy their products in which case they will go for the money once again and add the feature. American care makers did only the bare minimum to make sales until Japanese car makers came in and showed what QUALITY meant. The American market would have died off if they hadn't changed (and with the recent recession, all but Ford would have died anyway). However, I think the government did the right thing bailing them out, not for their sake, but for the sake of all the American jobs related to those companies that would have been lost. The effect would have been DEVASTATING and combined with the recession, there is little doubt in my mind we could have faced a true second Great Depression instead and those that did not live in those days truly have NO CLUE what that really means. It's not a bunch of people without jobs collective unemployment....

But tying cell phone thefts to "you MUST have that feature" is dangerous since it has NOTHING to do with handling or safety. It's petty crime that does exist and will always exist. Such a law opens the door to even more bizarre laws like forcing your car to carry a device that reports ANY speeding to the police (yes, that IS coming and it's only a matter of time; prepare to pay out your arse for speeding tickets for one 1mph over the limit since you are clearly a safety hazard; then one day you won't be allowed to even DRIVE period since you are more dangerous than a computer driving for you. Take all the life out of life; make people worry about cancer from every-day things like coffee mugs, take the fun out of life with things like driving; try and take ALL the danger out of life and we all end up living in a padded room for our own safety!) Frankly, California lives in another Universe of paranoia and pricey regulation. It's a small wonder they're in such massive debt out there. If they spent their money on desalination plants instead of coffee mug cancer labeling, maybe they'd be doing a little better during this drought. :cool:
 
It is not the manufacturer's job to enforce the laws, that is the job of the police.

Bottom line is there is no reason that the manufacturer should be required to offer this feature, unless they are going to be compensated by law enforcement for doing their job for them.
 
Smart-phones is the key.

Obviously no one cares if someone loose a phone they already have.... its only newer ones...

* That's strike one... no software update can deal with that/ maybe software only

Second, if since Apple's is software only, you can easily get round all of Apple security if the phone of Jail-broke...

* Strike 2

and if the user doesn't have a good password... its useless, since they can get round this..

* strike 3, your out.

It may be the job of the police, but manufactures must take on this responsibility, just like they also have to have sapphire glass because customers won't use cases, or go to their own saftey protections themselves.

Its sad, its gets better marketing and all, and we can now rely on yet "another piece of technology" we would otherwise "had the user been smarter than the average bear" then thee would be allot lower theft and thus not needed for hardware anti-theft.

Its different for cars, but phones ? This just gives people an excuse to loose their phone "more often' and say "i put it down for a minute." when a minute is all it takes..

Manufactures don't need to take responsibility, but it's their phone your buying.. You've already got phone insurance.... so i dunno.

I've has my iPhone 4s for 2 solid years since i bought it, and have never lost it.... so i dunno what the heck everyone else is doing with theirs...
 
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Glad our law makers have plenty of time on their hands to handle the important business of keeping us "safe". :rolleyes:
 
How about an anti-theft device for legislators to wear?

Call it - quantitative cronyism.
 
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