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Camcorder for film student

Panasonic just dropped the retail price of the DVX100B by $1,000!

Now the street price will be in the $2,500-2,700 range. Although this is still over your budget, it may open up the possibility of a used DVX100A as they will drop below the $2k mark.

There aren't a whole lot of MAJOR changes between the 100A and 100B. Some nice things, but nothing I would consider crucial for a beginner. I would take a used 100A over a Canon GL2 any day.
 
bigbossbmb said:
Panasonic just dropped the retail price of the DVX100B by $1,000!

Now the street price will be in the $2,500-2,700 range. Although this is still over your budget, it may open up the possibility of a used DVX100A as they will drop below the $2k mark.

There aren't a whole lot of MAJOR changes between the 100A and 100B. Some nice things, but nothing I would consider crucial for a beginner. I would take a used 100A over a Canon GL2 any day.
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What kind of quality might one expect from the DVX100B ??? I am curious to know.
 
Great thread. I agree that the HV20 is a great camcorder for the money, even though the OP seems to have decided.
 
TheDance511 said:
What kind of quality might one expect from the DVX100B ??? I am curious to know.
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Well this documentary was shot on a DVX100B and nominated for an academy award for best documentary this year. There is also Murderball, the TV shows "It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia" on FX and "Arrested Development" (before it went HD) on Fox, and a whole bunch of other things listed here.

On DVXuser there is a forum for posting footage you can check out. You can get just about any look you want with the right lighting/cinematography skills and a DVX.
 
LethalWolfe said:
The quality is sufficient enough that a skilled cinematographer can use the DVX100 and win the Best Cinematography award at Sundance ("November", 2004).


Lethal
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^Awesome. :cool:

I like the DVX100B a lot as well. I've done work in many situations and my only gripe is that they don't perform in low light as well as other cameras similar to it. But everything else about them is so tight that I can't help but stick to 'em. :)
 
Salasm said:
a crappy movie shot on sd is even crappier. a good movie shot on hd is still a good movie. at least its on hd.

ur point?

op, get a canon hv20
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I think my point is pretty obvious. A crappy movie is still a crappy movie whether it's on SD, HD or film and a good movie is still a good movie whether it's shot on SD, HD or film. Is "Charlie's Angles: Full Throttle" a better movie than "Citizen Kane" because CA:FT was shot on superior film stock, in color, and used modern special effects and CG? I don't think so.

Saying "I made my movie in HD" is nothing special anymore because HD cameras are so inexpensive and accessible. It's like saying "I know photoshop" or "I know final cut" or even "I know Avid". In '98 a friend of mine graduated college and got his first job in LA partly because he knew Avid (at the time our college was one of the few in the country that let students use Avid). Fast forward to '01 when I graduated and Avid had become less expensive so more schools had them and having Avid experience didn't really open any doors for me because it had become a much more common thing since my friend graduated.

The democratization of movie making is a double edged sword. It's great that pretty much anyone can make a movie, but because pretty much anyone can, anyone is... so even though it's easier to make a movie it's much harder to get anyone to notice your film and to stand out from the pack.

Now, if you say your student film was shot on a Red One, Varicam or F950 and finished on a Da Vinci then it'll be a bit easier to get some attention because you showed some resourcefulness to get your movie made on equipment that was beyond your means financially (unless you are rich of course). But that still means you could lose out to a movie like ""Tarnation" which was culled together from "...snapshots, Super-8, answering machine messages, video diaries, early short films..." and edited on iMovie.

As someone who used to shoot professionally I'd rather have an SD camera w/as much manual control my budget allows than an HD point-n-shoot camera. But, that's personal preference coming from a shooter so of course I'd want as much control over my camera as I can get.


Lethal
 
I figured here would be a good enough place to ask. I'm in a bind. I don't know which camera I should get. I've narrowed it down to four. The Canon XL2, Canon GL2, Canon XH-A1 or the Panasonic AG-DVX100B. I'm lost because I know the XL2 is such a great camera that Professional TV studios use it, but the options and reviews on the others are so good. Anyone know what I should do? :(
 
The differences between the DVX and XL2 are mostly personal preference. There is a very good comparison of the two here. It uses the DVX100A for the comparison, but there are only minor differences between the A and B (with only one or two effecting picture).


The XH-A1 is a very good camera as well (with a very enticing price tag). I think a lot of it comes down to whether you need/want HD and what kind of projects you are doing.
 
I've done some research. While I like the GL2, the CCDs aren't in 16:9, so it's out of the equation. I like the XH-A1 because of it's small form factor, but I'm not sure what I need. I'm going to school to be a film editor, but I want to have my own camera and filming experience. I would like to have something that is great for an amateur, but I can grow with as I become a professional. So, whatever fits the bill best.
 
wizwaz3 said:
I've done some research. While I like the GL2, the CCDs aren't in 16:9, so it's out of the equation. I like the XH-A1 because of it's small form factor, but I'm not sure what I need. I'm going to school to be a film editor, but I want to have my own camera and filming experience. I would like to have something that is great for an amateur, but I can grow with as I become a professional. So, whatever fits the bill best.
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I'm concentrating on editing and post-production here at UC Santa Cruz. I went with the DVX for the better low-light, actual 24p, better color, and the form factor (i hate the XL2's body). Also, it was important to not blow all of my money on just the camera. I bought a good tripod as well (Bogen/Manfrotto 503/351mvb2 combo). Sure I could've put that $500 into a trying to get a better camera, but shakey HD doesn't look as good as smooth SD.
 
wizwaz3 said:
So, between the DVX or XL2 & the XH-A1, what would be best for me? Which is great for a beginner, but expandable for my future?
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High definition is the future, so if you want to base your decision on that, the XH-A1 is the way to go.

If I had the money to buy a real camera right now, I'd probably buy the XH-A1. I used GL1 and GL2s in school and I really liked them, so I'd probably go with the XH-A1.
 
GoGoSamGo said:
I started off with and still use the Panisonic AG-DVX100, which IN my opinion is the best MiniDv Camcorder avaliable.
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I second that. Its a great camera. If you want HD go with the HVX200 if you can afford it but I wouldn't recommand for a film student the Canon HV20. Even so it is a great camera if you really want to make a movie.

Another very interesting camera is the XH-A1.

Check out http://www.freshdv.com/ for more info on the HV20 and

http://www.hdforindies.com/ for more info in cameras in general.
 
With the recent price drop of the DVX, I'd say it is your best option. You'll get a great camera with money left over for a good tripod, tapes, and some hard drives for storage. After a little while, you might start thinking about audio and lighting.
 
bigbossbmb said:
With the recent price drop of the DVX, I'd say it is your best option. You'll get a great camera with money left over for a good tripod, tapes, and some hard drives for storage. After a little while, you might start thinking about audio and lighting.
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They did a Price drop? For how much?
 
I really want the cameras CCDs to be 16:9. I love Panasonic, I use their GS-500s at school quite often, but I need my CCDs to be 16:9. I plan to shoot in widescreen as much as humanly possible.
 
wizwaz3 said:
So, between the DVX or XL2 & the XH-A1, what would be best for me? Which is great for a beginner, but expandable for my future?
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You've chosen three cameras that are very good and very equal in what you can do with them. If you take the time to learn any one of these, drill down into the custom presets and you know how to light a scene, you're going to knock some socks off. Again, I'll point to Stephen Dempsey, who shot this footage with the A1. If it were down to me and it's a tossup, I'd go A1 all the way. Three very equal cameras in quality, but I'd give the A1 one up for HD. Granted, it's HDV, but you can always capture as DVCProHD to eliminate GOP issues if you're going out of FCP.
 
poppe said:
They did a Price drop? For how much?
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it dropped $1k...now it is like $2600-2700 on BH... maybe lower on other places.


wizwaz3: the dvx's squeeze mode is very good. not native 16:9 but close. there is also a 16:9 adapter to give the DVX native 16:9...but I might sell mine cuz I think squeeze is pretty good.
 
iMacZealot said:
I've owned both Sony and Canon, and I am more impressed with Sony. I think the Carl Zeiss lenses deliver better quality, and the displays in the cameras are better quality.
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As have I, and I couldn't agree more...

Check out the Sony VX2100

Its a great brand, very durable, and has excellent Low Light (1lux)

it's ~2200 at BH

Sony_DCR_VX2100_MiniDV_Camcorder.jpg
 
I've owned several cameras. First a panny 3ccd pv-gs70, then a sony vx2000, a panny pv-gs500, and a canon hv-10. Out of all the cameras I loved the vx2000 the best but it didn't fit my needs in it was to large. The hv10 was beautiful but I couldn't stand the way you held it, the fact that it didn't have a manual focus ring and didn't have an accessory shoe. I'm using a panasonic pv-gs500 and I love it. Its sd, has decent sized chip sizes, has a manual focus ring, hot shoe, I made a handle for it, and I love the size. It spends alot of time in a tripod but just as much time in my hands, so it being comfortable to hold and me being able to keep it steady is huge in my opinion. Its really all preference and realizing what you want out of a camera. If the vx2000 was a bit smaller I would be all over it. good luck with your decision
 
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