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Madtiger27

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Nov 17, 2020
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OK...i have both at home. 12PM takes a better quality picture than 11PM. Colors. Lighting. Exposure. Focus speed. All either slightly better to significantly better on 12 PM. Telephoto and ultra-wide are both superior on 12 PM.

However, when you pixel peep, 11PM either shows more details (in the clothing, eyelash, etc.) or same as 12PM. Trust me, i have taken lots of pictures! No sense in posting pics here since everything is compress.

Again, i am ONLY talking about indoor / low light (non-Night Mode) pics, where Deep Fusion kicks in. And ONLY talking about pixel peeping details. ONLY talking about the wide/main sensor...not ultra-wide nor telephoto lenses.

I am a bit shock because 12 PM has a bigger main sensor, 6 element lens for edge-to-edge clarity, and wider f/1.6 aperture. And yes, i know that bigger sensor has more depth of field...thus, blurrier around the subject...that is NOT what i am talking about. Just focusing on the subject (person or thing), there is just no improvement (and sometimes a tiny bit LESS) details in the 12PM pic than what 11PM puts out.

It is almost seems like 12PM processing went after noise reduction more aggressively and less aggressive on Deep Fusion processing to get every little detail out. I would be OK if the sensor size, lens quality, and f-stop were the same between the two...but it is not! 12PM specs are so superior that it kills me that 11PM can bring out so much details!

11PM Deep Fusion can REALLY bring out details across the frame!

Anyone else with both in their household notice this? Or is my 12PM is somehow weird? (And yes, being anal, i did check...no dust nor imperfection in the lenses.)
 
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akash.nu

macrumors G4
May 26, 2016
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12 pro max doesn’t kick in deep fusion as soon as 11 a pro Max does. Especially in low lights. That’s the main deifference.
 

Madtiger27

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Nov 17, 2020
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12 pro max doesn’t kick in deep fusion as soon as 11 a pro Max does. Especially in low lights. That’s the main deifference.

I checked via Metapho app. My comparison pics ALWAYS have deep fusion active in both. And of course, when you open the pic right after taking it, you see the post-processing stutter. So, yes, i checked to make sure that both pics from both phones have deep fusion active to make a fair comparison.

BTW, i have NOT notice a difference in when deep fusion kicks in. I think that you are talking about NIGHT MODE. Yes, Night Mode kicks in more frequent in 11 PM than 12PM. But Deep Fusion is about same in both.
 

ctjack

macrumors 65816
Mar 8, 2020
1,402
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I checked via Metapho app. My comparison pics ALWAYS have deep fusion active in both.
Halide app editors posted opinions about 12 PM. So the reason why Iphone 12 pro or Iphone 11 PM may look similar is AI algorithm in the OS.
Then they shoot in RAW format and found out that 12PM is far superior than 12 Pro when pixel peeping. SO the logic was they didn't wan't the 12 PM to be far superior when compared to 12 Pro when announced, so they softened the image of 12 PM when you see the final result. But if you shoot RAW you will get all details back.
 
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Madtiger27

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Nov 17, 2020
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Halide app editors posted opinions about 12 PM. So the reason why Iphone 12 pro or Iphone 11 PM may look similar is AI algorithm in the OS.
Then they shoot in RAW format and found out that 12PM is far superior than 12 Pro when pixel peeping. SO the logic was they didn't wan't the 12 PM to be far superior when compared to 12 Pro when announced, so they softened the image of 12 PM when you see the final result. But if you shoot RAW you will get all details back.

Yeah, i understand...but that just sucks. Apple need to fix this in future to take advantage of the hardware...otherwise, what is the point? How many people care about ProRAW? Niche feature.

Don’t forget that ProRAW files are 25 mb vs. 1.5-2 mb. So, unless you want to fill out cloud storage quick, ProRAW is at best a once in a while option to click on.
 

ctjack

macrumors 65816
Mar 8, 2020
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Apple need to fix this in future to take advantage of the hardware.
I think they will fix it in the future without further announcement.
otherwise, what is the point? How many people care about ProRAW? Niche feature.
You said it. Niche feature, so only geeks and photo enthusiast will explore it now. But what would happen, if the stock camera app took far better photos in the low-light when comparing 12Pro and 12 PM at the beginning? I guess nobody will buy the regular 12 Pro. But now, thanks to you and other reviewers on youtube, it looks like people don't need to pay more for the same camera in 12-12P-12 PM.
 

Madtiger27

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Nov 17, 2020
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I think they will fix it in the future without further announcement.

You said it. Niche feature, so only geeks and photo enthusiast will explore it now. But what would happen, if the stock camera app took far better photos in the low-light when comparing 12Pro and 12 PM at the beginning? I guess nobody will buy the regular 12 Pro. But now, thanks to you and other reviewers on youtube, it looks like people don't need to pay more for the same camera in 12-12P-12 PM.

That’s what i am afraid of......Apple will not update camera software to take advantage of 12PM camera hardware. Why would they? 12 Pro and PM already have widely considered best camera...save the “big” improvement for the IPhone 13.

Just like they don’t give Night mode to iPhone XS. Or Deep Fusion and Night Mode to ultra-wide of 11. Etc..

Don’t get me wrong...i love my 12 PM...the pics from it are great from every lens. But the ONE area where 12 PM should be much better than prior gen and other 12 models due to superior hardware, it is not that much different, if at all. Like i wrote above, in more than a few cases, the 11PM actually showed MORE details (slight mind you; and only when pixel peep) than 12PM! That is ridiculous IMO.
 

ctjack

macrumors 65816
Mar 8, 2020
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But the ONE area where 12 PM should be much better than prior gen and other 12 models due to superior hardware, it is not that much different.
You might want to explore Halide (paid app) for your 12 PM. It should be better. Also the RAW format is bulkier, but that is what you shoot anyways if you have a dslr or mirrorless camera.
save the “big” improvement for the IPhone 13.

Just like they don’t give Night mode to iPhone XS. Or Deep Fusion and Night Mode to ultra-wide of 11. Etc..
Going this route we predict that Iphone 13 will have better tele-photo hardware. Iphone 14 will fix issues with bad ultra-wide camera. So by Iphone 14 we should get some nice well-rounded phone in terms of cameras.
=====================
 
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akash.nu

macrumors G4
May 26, 2016
10,826
16,948
I checked via Metapho app. My comparison pics ALWAYS have deep fusion active in both. And of course, when you open the pic right after taking it, you see the post-processing stutter. So, yes, i checked to make sure that both pics from both phones have deep fusion active to make a fair comparison.

BTW, i have NOT notice a difference in when deep fusion kicks in. I think that you are talking about NIGHT MODE. Yes, Night Mode kicks in more frequent in 11 PM than 12PM. But Deep Fusion is about same in both.

Ah yes I meant night mode. Sorry brain fart.
 

cub4bearin

macrumors 6502
Mar 20, 2009
332
239
I just read your post and halide article. I’m guessing that if I shot in halide app raw I can get the potential of iPhone 12 pro max, right?
From everything else I just read, it sounds like buying 12 pro is a waste of money, if $100 more can get me better camera (12 PM) that actually show the true potential in raw format, since Apple is limiting its possibilities in their own software processing.
 

ctjack

macrumors 65816
Mar 8, 2020
1,402
1,434
I’m guessing that if I shot in halide app raw I can get the potential of iPhone 12 pro max, right?
Right, it should be even better if Halide is adapted for ProRAW.
From everything else I just read, it sounds like buying 12 pro is a waste of money, if $100 more can get me better camera
So it is better only at low light and only if shot RAW. People who don't care about evening photos/videos and RAW, will not see the difference.
Basically, you will not be able to get shots like this on Ip12 pro when compared to 12 pro max.
 
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