Camera with iPhone-like simplicity

[rspeaker]

Hey all! I recently got into photography, and I bought a Canon T5 as a starter camera (beyond the iPhone.) But I’m struggling with it. Auto+ mode wants to use the flash and shoot at 3200 ISO indoors, even on a bright day with good sunlight in the room. Everything is grainy. Trying to photograph the kids is impossible because they move and it’s just insane motion blur. I got some great shots outside today, but even then, the photos are very “cool” and I have to make adjustments in Photos to make them look closer to what I saw.

I’ve taken about 600 photos and there are maybe a dozen worth keeping. Most are too dark, too grainy, too blurry (motion,) or out of focus (even though I got the green box before snapping the picture.)

Meanwhile, my iPhone 14 Pro just takes great pictures. I took a picture of someone today with the T5 in Auto+ mode, and I could barely make out his shirt. Picked up my iPhone and took a picture, it was bright, sharp, focused.

Are there any cameras that take better pictures than the iPhone, without needing to fuss with 15 settings and make adjustments for lightings and require your subject to be still for 5 seconds while the camera gets focused? And if so, are any of those cameras reasonably-priced?

 

[apostolosdt]

If you have decided to delve into digital photography, it may be to your benefit to study your medium a bit. Then you will learn that, regarding the technical level of an image, the line of work is “lens, sensor, in-camera software.” And, even with the most expensive digital outfit, post-processing is unavoidable.

The yield you mention, a few ‘keepers’ out of 600, is quite common; get used and learn to live with it. Most likely, it’s not you fault and definitely not the camera’s.

By the way, in film photography, the line of work is “lens, film, photographer’s eye.” Can you spot the difference? With digital, the camera body is a crucial choice; it’s less important with film. People today still shoot with 60-year-old cameras with impressive results.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Hey all! I recently got into photography, and I bought a Canon T5 as a starter camera (beyond the iPhone.) But I’m struggling with it. Auto+ mode wants to use the flash and shoot at 3200 ISO indoors, even on a bright day with good sunlight in the room. Everything is grainy. Trying to photograph the kids is impossible because they move and it’s just insane motion blur. I got some great shots outside today, but even then, the photos are very “cool” and I have to make adjustments in Photos to make them look closer to what I saw.

I’ve taken about 600 photos and there are maybe a dozen worth keeping. Most are too dark, too grainy, too blurry (motion,) or out of focus (even though I got the green box before snapping the picture.)

Meanwhile, my iPhone 14 Pro just takes great pictures. I took a picture of someone today with the T5 in Auto+ mode, and I could barely make out his shirt. Picked up my iPhone and took a picture, it was bright, sharp, focused.

Are there any cameras that take better pictures than the iPhone, without needing to fuss with 15 settings and make adjustments for lightings and require your subject to be still for 5 seconds while the camera gets focused? And if so, are any of those cameras reasonably-priced?

The trouble with auto mode is the camera doesn’t know what the scene has in it.
For example you mention fast moving kids. Try using shutter priority mode. Then choose a fast shutter speed (1000 plus). The camera will then set the aperture to match.

Basically read up on the exposure triangle. This will help you understand what does what.

Then practise, practice and practice. You’ll get there.

 

[mollyc]

You won't really find a dedicated camera that can give you an iPhone look right out of the gate (at least with the current offerings - maybe in 10 years you will). But phone cameras are packed with algorithms and HDR and AI stuff that post process the hell out of the image the instant you take it. With a dedicated camera, you have to do that all on your own after you take the image. And there's a big learning curve to it, but in the end you'll end up with a much better image in terms of sharpness, light handling, resolution. But it's not instant.

As AFB said, a camera doesn't know what the scene is and how you want to capture it; an iPhone doesn't either, but has such a deep depth of field that basically everything is in focus so it's kind of hard to mess up.

I haven't shot in auto mode on a camera in over 15 years, but I'm not inherently surprised that your camera is choosing ISO 3200 inside; you'd be surprised at how dim interiors are in terms of actual light volume, but our brains compensate in ways that a camera can't.

What kind of lens are you using on your Canon? I'd guess you have a kit lens with a relatively narrow aperture that just isn't designed for indoor use which is limiting the settings on your camera. You might do well finding an inexpensive 50mm f/1.8 lens, which will give you faster shutter speeds indoors (although as a trade off, you won't necessarily have a lot in focus if you are shooting a f/1.8).

If you are serious about photography, you'll have to invest some time with the exposure triangle and figuring out how to make your camera work for you, vs expecting it to just work out of the box, but if you don't want that hassle, then using your iPhone exclusively is certainly a valid option. 🙂

 

[OldMacs4Me]

Just some observations. I have two cameras that are mainly used as P&S. An Olympus TG-6 (waterproof) and a Panasonic Lumix ZS 200. I tried both cameras in auto mode and in both cases that lasted for about 3 frames. Switching over to P (program) mode does several things. It gives me control over the ISO, allows me to disable the flash, allows me to pick where I want the camera to focus. Camera still selects aperture and shutter speed. Setting the ISO at 400 assures adequate shutter speeds out doors. I will go as high as ISO 800 on the Oly, and the Panasonic having a larger sensor will usually deliver good images at ISO 1600.

Auto mode is entirely dependent on AI and at the current state of camera development, AI means: Anti-Intelligence.

Ask and expect nothing of the flashes on these cameras. To extend battery life the guide number is literally in the single digits. Even with a flash these cameras need a very high ISO when working indoors with bad light. I have used them as fill flash out doors if the subject is less than a foot away.

All of that said, the T5 is a DSLR and spending a couple of weeks doing menu and user-manual dives would be time very well spent. As @mollyc suggested Aperture preferred shooting mode may well give the combination of simplicity and control that you are looking for.

 

[r.harris1]

Taking photographs with a dedicated digital camera potenitally allows you more control over what you produce. You have to want that, of course, and that's not always what people are after. All cameras have computational smarts but phones needs tons because they have small sensors with small pixels. They literally only look good because of the heavy post capture processing they do and users aren't always keen on doing post-processing work themselves. If phone-style ease of use is your thing and you like the output you get, then a phone is probably the right thing. If you want more control over the output, want to work with larger sensors and are willing to put in the work to make it happen, you'll find dedicated cameras rewarding. Phones and dedicated cameras can both produce outstanding images, it's just the journey that's a bit different.

As a side note, there are definitely dedicated cameras that produce superb low-light images, especially if you're using the camera's raw format and processing them in a quality raw converter (and it can be something like Apple Photos too). Not a Canon shooter but assuming that's the case with your camera too.

 

[rspeaker]

If you have decided to delve into digital photography, it may be to your benefit to study your medium a bit. Then you will learn that, regarding the technical level of an image, the line of work is “lens, sensor, in-camera software.” And, even with the most expensive digital outfit, post-processing is unavoidable.

The yield you mention, a few ‘keepers’ out of 600, is quite common; get used and learn to live with it. Most likely, it’s not you fault and definitely not the camera’s.

Thank you! It was good to hear I wasn't off-base. I think I've not shot somewhere around 800 photos (in 48 hours!) and the advice OldMacs4Me gave was spot-on: Auto+ mode isn't the automatic mode I need, at all: Program Mode made a big difference in the number of save-worthy images. And as I've learned a little more about the camera, that's helped. (I was originally shooting RAW + JPEG, but it took several seconds to save. Switching to JPEG only allows continuous, relatively-fast capture.)

You won't really find a dedicated camera that can give you an iPhone look right out of the gate (at least with the current offerings - maybe in 10 years you will). But phone cameras are packed with algorithms and HDR and AI stuff that post process the hell out of the image the instant you take it. With a dedicated camera, you have to do that all on your own after you take the image. And there's a big learning curve to it, but in the end you'll end up with a much better image in terms of sharpness, light handling, resolution. But it's not instant.

As AFB said, a camera doesn't know what the scene is and how you want to capture it; an iPhone doesn't either, but has such a deep depth of field that basically everything is in focus so it's kind of hard to mess up.

I haven't shot in auto mode on a camera in over 15 years, but I'm not inherently surprised that your camera is choosing ISO 3200 inside; you'd be surprised at how dim interiors are in terms of actual light volume, but our brains compensate in ways that a camera can't.

What kind of lens are you using on your Canon? I'd guess you have a kit lens with a relatively narrow aperture that just isn't designed for indoor use which is limiting the settings on your camera. You might do well finding an inexpensive 50mm f/1.8 lens, which will give you faster shutter speeds indoors (although as a trade off, you won't necessarily have a lot in focus if you are shooting a f/1.8).

If you are serious about photography, you'll have to invest some time with the exposure triangle and figuring out how to make your camera work for you, vs expecting it to just work out of the box, but if you don't want that hassle, then using your iPhone exclusively is certainly a valid option. 🙂

Your assumption is right: an 18mm-55m kit lens, and it seems like the lowest (?) f-stop is f/3.5. I know the iPhone is closer to f/1.75, and it seems like the iPhone produces the best pictures with ISOs of 100-400. I tried those settings on the Canon and it didn't help! But, shooting in Program mode made a big difference. (Why Program mode seems to be more automatic than Auto+, makes no sense to me... but it is!)

If I keep the Canon, I may go for the 50mm Prime lens, especially if that'll help in low light. Most of the time I can move around and don't need to rely on zoom, so it may be a good option. I may also stick to the iPhone indoors, and iPhone + Canon outside. I went out and took some pictures of the mountains with the Canon and iPhone, and while I prefer the color of the iPhone photos, the Canon photos were so much better. More details in the mountains and mid-ground objects.

Thanks for the advice!

Just some observations. I have two cameras that are mainly used as P&S. An Olympus TG-6 (waterproof) and a Panasonic Lumix ZS 200. I tried both cameras in auto mode and in both cases that lasted for about 3 frames. Switching over to P (program) mode does several things. It gives me control over the ISO, allows me to disable the flash, allows me to pick where I want the camera to focus. Camera still selects aperture and shutter speed. Setting the ISO at 400 assures adequate shutter speeds out doors. I will go as high as ISO 800 on the Oly, and the Panasonic having a larger sensor will usually deliver good images at ISO 1600.

Auto mode is entirely dependent on AI and at the current state of camera development, AI means: Anti-Intelligence.

Ask and expect nothing of the flashes on these cameras. To extend battery life the guide number is literally in the single digits. Even with a flash these cameras need a very high ISO when working indoors with bad light. I have used them as fill flash out doors if the subject is less than a foot away.

All of that said, the T5 is a DSLR and spending a couple of weeks doing menu and user-manual dives would be time very well spent. As @mollyc suggested Aperture preferred shooting mode may well give the combination of simplicity and control that you are looking for.

This was the magic answer! Program mode made my camera more of the "automatic" experience I hoped for! I even left ISO as auto and the camera did a good job choosing an ISO that made my pictures sharp and appropriately bright.

The flash was making me so mad in Auto+ mode. When it used the flash, the pictures were much sharper - but skin tones were destroyed. I learned a long time ago - maybe back with the 4S - that flash could help but should generally be avoided, and that's been my attitude ever since with iPhone photos.

Part of me wonders if something newer, like the Fuji X-E4, would be a better camera for me. The reviews rave about the quality and colors of the Fuji. But, $1300 used was just a bit much for me. Maybe if I stick with this for a while, it'll be worth looking at again.

Thanks for the advice, and getting me on the right track with Program mode!

 

[OldMacs4Me]

Glad it worked for you!

I had a chance to play with an earlier version of your camera over a winter, but could not remember for sure if the Canon T series has a Program mode.

BTW P mode should also let you select single point focus as opposed to the zone system used in Auto mode. You may have to do some menu diving to make that change.

 

[arkitect]

If you have decided to delve into digital photography, it may be to your benefit to study your medium a bit. Then you will learn that, regarding the technical level of an image, the line of work is “lens, sensor, in-camera software.” And, even with the most expensive digital outfit, post-processing is unavoidable.

100% agree with this.

Don't be afraid of post processing your pics in Photos for a start. It even is reasonably capable with RAW. You'd be amazed what detail can be extracted from the darks.
This thread here on MacRumours is very useful.

Your assumption is right: an 18mm-55m kit lens, and it seems like the lowest (?) f-stop is f/3.5. I know the iPhone is closer to f/1.75, and it seems like the iPhone produces the best pictures with ISOs of 100-400. I tried those settings on the Canon and it didn't help! But, shooting in Program mode made a big difference. (Why Program mode seems to be more automatic than Auto+, makes no sense to me... but it is!)

If I keep the Canon, I may go for the 50mm Prime lens, especially if that'll help in low light. Most of the time I can move around and don't need to rely on zoom, so it may be a good option. I may also stick to the iPhone indoors, and iPhone + Canon outside. I went out and took some pictures of the mountains with the Canon and iPhone, and while I prefer the color of the iPhone photos, the Canon photos were so much better. More details in the mountains and mid-ground objects.

If you want to get beyond the kit lens and go for a prime lens, have a look at the data of your pics and see what focal length you favour.
You'd be surprised how we do favour a certain couple lengths. 🙂
(Look at the Info if you use say, Photos on the Mac.)
That will be a great guide to what your next lens upgrade could be.

If you find yourself mostly at 18mm then you might want to go even wider.
Same, if you find yourself mostly shooting and framing at 55mm you might be more attracted to the short telefocals…


If someone has mentioned it I might have missed it, but something to bear in mind is your Canon T5 has an APS-C sensor size.

So any lens you use will be (approximately) equivalent to 1.6 x the 35mm lens focal length.
At the moment your 18mm-55m zoom lens is giving you 28.8mm-88mm…

If you decide on a 50mm it will give you an 80mm equivalent — nice for portraits but not too good for interiors.

A 28mm will take you close to the "Nifty Fifty" of yonks. 🙂 28 x 1.6 = 44.8mm

This is a link to Canon's APS-C that will give you a starting point to investigate.

Keep on exploring and the more you snap the better you get. Photography is a great thing to do…

 

[rspeaker]

Keep on exploring and the more you snap the better you get. Photography is a great thing to do…

I am snapping a ton of pictures… about 950 in just over three days with the camera. It’s fun… but so many pictures are just garbage. Bad lighting, too much movement, I didn’t hold still while the shot was finishing… Then I pick up my phone, take 2-4 photos of the same thing, and it’s great. (I know, I know, it’s doing so much processing and combining images and all that.)

Anyway, I’ll keep snapping! I probably will stick with the kit lens for a bit but I think something in the 18-28mm might be what’s next, as that’s mostly where I’m shooting. (And on the iPhone, I mostly shoot 1x, which I think is about 28mm equivalent.)

Thanks for the thoughts and great resources!

 

[Apple fanboy]

I am snapping a ton of pictures… about 950 in just over three days with the camera. It’s fun… but so many pictures are just garbage. Bad lighting, too much movement, I didn’t hold still while the shot was finishing… Then I pick up my phone, take 2-4 photos of the same thing, and it’s great. (I know, I know, it’s doing so much processing and combining images and all that.)

Anyway, I’ll keep snapping! I probably will stick with the kit lens for a bit but I think something in the 18-28mm might be what’s next, as that’s mostly where I’m shooting. (And on the iPhone, I mostly shoot 1x, which I think is about 28mm equivalent.)

Thanks for the thoughts and great resources!

Think about how you hold the camera. Elbows in. Left hand under the lens. Right hand on the grip.

What about the strap? Around your neck or dangling away.

Most importantly shutter speed. You learn what the slowest shutter speed you can get away with without a tripod. Depends on how steady you are etc.
I’d stay above 1/200th at the very least.

 

[apostolosdt]

I am snapping a ton of pictures… about 950 in just over three days with the camera. It’s fun… but so many pictures are just garbage. Bad lighting, too much movement, I didn’t hold still while the shot was finishing… Then I pick up my phone, take 2-4 photos of the same thing, and it’s great. (I know, I know, it’s doing so much processing and combining images and all that.) [...]

Since you like and trust your smartphone's camera, why don't you use it for snapshots and learn a bit about composition in photography? Then, you may like to use your Canon exclusively for compositional shots. It is more rewarding than people think. And I'm not talking about "two-thirds" and other naive approaches, but you need to read and experiment a lot. And find out what photographers mean when they talk about critique (or "crit"). Put plainly, composition and crit is the road to improving one's photography.

There are excellent books on these topics; even in pdf form on the Internet.

 

[Q-Dog]

Have you tried hybrid auto mode? That is auto mode without the flash.

 

[OldMacs4Me]

I'm going to suggest learning to master the technical aspects before concentrating on composition.
This may or may not be a good place to start. At least it's free and geared towards Canon cameras. I haven't checked it out thoroughly, but suspect it will at least guide you through the menu diving aspects I referred to earlier.

Canon Coach | Camera and Camcorder App

In just a few minutes a day, Canon Coach will have you using your camera's advanced features like a pro. The Canon Coach app is designed to help you start taking great photographs with your DSLR or mirrorless camera.

www.canon.ca

Off the top I'm going to strongly suggest that you stop referring to snapping pictures. A surefire path to blurry images is to rush the shutter release. You need to smoothly and gradually press the shutter release down, preferably pausing part way to allow autofocus to do its thing. You also need to learn breath control. A few deep breaths to relax, partially exhale, then squeeze the shutter at the moment when the camera is not moving. Since most hand held shots are from a standing position, look for rails, trees, posts, poles or walls. Anything you can use to help stabilize the camera. Elbows against the rib cage but not squeezing.

Another first step is learning to cull. You've mentioned 900+ images mostly bad. Anything that's blurry or has blown highlights, should immediately be relegated to the Trash file. Too dark can usually be saved, if the image is otherwise interesting. That skill will develop as you learn the ins and outs of post imaging.

 

[Clix Pix]

Coming late to this party..... My suggestion is to find a basic beginning-level photography class, either online or an in-person, hands-on one at a local community college or adult ed program. This has the advantage of offering structure and moving through a progression of learning about and developing skills, building on that.

Students are required to do specific assignments, which can be challenging and also quite instructive as one begins to learn more about his or her own individual camera and also what kinds of subjects one prefers to shoot. Innate creativity may begin to emerge, too. As mentioned above, people tend to gravitate naturally toward preferring specific types of genres and subject matter, which helps throughout the learning process and later also can narrow down lens purchases.

All-purpose lenses such as an 18-200mm are fine and dandy but most genres and types of shooting really require more specific apertures and focal ranges. This makes a huge difference in the overall shooting experience and the impact of the images shot.

Also, yes, there are some good books on basic photography out there, so that's another resource for learning, too. I think there are a couple which are actually structured similarly to actual classroom instruction, taking the student through the process at his or her own pace.

Does all of this take time? Yes. Photography itself takes time, too, when adding in the post-processing phase (reviewing and culling one's results, then editing the ones which are best, plus storing and backing up the processed images later). So this is indeed somewhat different from simply snapping off a quick shot or two with one's iPhone and then immediately sending it to a family member or friend......

 

[deep diver]

I agree with what everyone has said. Intentionality is also crucial. Try taking fewer pictures (many fewer) as you learn how to use the Canon. It's easy to get so caught up in not wanting to miss anything that we capture too many things and get weak results. I have a tendency to over shoot. Sometimes I will give myself the challenge of taking only one image per subject. It's a great exercise that makes me slow down and shoot more thoughtfully and with much more intent. Sometimes I have to sacrifice some opportunities but the overall quality of the images is much higher.

 

[mtbdudex]

I'll throw this out there as a counterpoint and real world.

Back when I got my first DSLR, 2009 the Canon T1i, there was no smartphone really, so like posted above I learned and became proficient at the mechanics and artist side of photography. I had a 35mm SLR my beloved Pentax ( since 1986) Super Program Plus , I sold it in .. 2010.
Pentax “A” lens were great glass.

Upgrade in 2014 to the Canon 70D, loved that, spent $$$'s on L glass, yada-yada.
2 years ago now got a Canon R5, and sold the 70D and all the EF lens I accumulated over the years

But ... I realize (re-realized?) the best camera you have is the one with you, in my case a iPhone 14 Pro
The basics of form, composition, layout, etc hold still.
It's the artist behind the imaging device that matters.

Now, I use the R5 for 5-10% of my photography; 100 - 500 mm L lens for long away stuff for reach, got the 24 - 105 L for "walkabout". Still waiting on my 10 - 20 mm L for astrophotography.

So, in todays world, I feel if your satisfied with iPhone images and you like them, why go with the T5?
There's still a huge learning curve for you .. but if you want to be a photo hobbyist go ahead and dive in deep thru the rabbit hole, drink the kool-aid, and peeps here will advise and help you as they have.

 

[r.harris1]

I use my iPhone 15 Pro Max for about 1-2% (maybe) of my image taking. I use it a lot as a remote shutter for other cameras (I upgraded from my beloved X to the 15 strictly for the USB-C) but I don't enjoy the form factor, personally. As I always like to joke, I don't want to receive a phone call from my mom on my camera . As you've discovered, there's P-mode and other things on dedicated cameras, but the iPhone is specifically designed to deliver easily shareable pleasing-looking images, regardless of light levels and scene, within standard focal ranges (and do it quickly).

It's often more work and more practice on dedicated cameras, and honestly, I feel one has to be at least a little interested in it. Unless it's action or quickly moving wildlife, I enjoy using all manual settings because it slows me down. It makes me think about composition or how I want the focus to fall off, or whether I want huge depth-of-field. I like judging the light of the scene. I enjoy glass optics exposing light onto a recording medium (digital or film), the character of the different optics, and the work it takes to produce an exceptional outcome. I enjoy that I am in much more control of that quality outcome than on a phone (though to be fair, that's changing a fair amount over the past few years). I'm not after "easy" per se. I'm after enjoyment (or what I perceive to be enjoyment ). Obviously, what that is would be up to each person.