What are good compact and weatherproof cameras for beginners? Ive looked at both mirrorless and point and shoot with manual features and larger sensors. Both seem to be around the same price point. DSLRs although cheaper seem bulky and harder to use for beginners.
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Cameras for beginners
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glenthompson
macrumors demi-god
You’re not going to find anything in interchangeable lens cameras that are weatherproof. Some P&S and superzooms are weather resistant. It really depends on where you might want to go beyond the beginner stage. I much prefer mirrorless to DSLR due to the size and weight.
Anonymous Freak
macrumors 603
iPhone.
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I do love my long-discontinued Nikon 1 AW1 - but they only ever made two waterproof lenses for it. It can take "regular" Nikon 1 lenses, but not while waterproof; and very few Nikon 1 lenses were ever made.
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I do love my long-discontinued Nikon 1 AW1 - but they only ever made two waterproof lenses for it. It can take "regular" Nikon 1 lenses, but not while waterproof; and very few Nikon 1 lenses were ever made.
I’ve seen that the Sony A6300 claims to be weatherproof? Others I’ve looked at (ignoring the weather resistance) includes the Canon EOS M200.
Sorry? Of course you will. The Panasonic G85, the Olympus E-M5 Mk I & II, Sony a6000 series all are weatherproof or rainproof & many more cameras are too!
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I don’t see myself doing anything very advanced but I want something which can take better photos than an iPhone, which I find limiting for low light shots, action shots, long exposure, changing depth, close up shots etc. Any suggestions?
I'll suggest an older Sony RX 100 V or VA. Except that long exposures won't really be possible, because you can't attach an ND filter to its lens. Great value, incredible bang for buck performance in all those things you mentioned apart from the long exposures, but, that depends on your definition of 'long exposures'. If it needs ND filters to be applied, then it won't tick that box, I'm sorry.
The Lumix LX 100 is another good compact for all the things you mentioned & I believe it can take ND filters, from memory. Not that I have the bestest memory, like senõr Trump!
Let's look it from a different perspective. Instead of simply looking at the iPhone being not good enough to do some shots that you want, maybe you can rethink about what you can do with an iPhone to get those shots.
First of all, which iPhone that you have?
For low light shots, night mode on the iPhone 11 series are quite amazing without further edits. And by using a tripod, you can set a longer exposure.
For action shots, take advantage of burst mode.
For others and manual mode, there are 3rd party camera apps that allow you to have manual controls and even save in RAW. Apple's camera API is really amazing for what it allows developers do.
Getting a pro camera app will at least let you be familiar with things like ISO, shutter speed, and aperture, and learn the basics without investing a lot of money into a camera system.
Keep in mind that even if you buy a standalone mirrorless/DSLR, you have to consider a purchase of a better lens/prime than the kit lens. They are not cheap. 😀
Darmok N Jalad
macrumors 603
Compact and weatherproof would be the Olympus E-M5 (II or III). Granted, Olympus is in the process of selling its camera business, but it’s still a good camera. If you can get by with a little less compact, then the Panasonic G85 or G95 are also weatherproof options. Keep in mind that just means splash and dust resistance, not full submersion in water.
bunnspecial
macrumors G3
Most higher end DSLRs and mirrorless cameras have some degree of weather resistance, and this has gotten better over the years. Among other things, the better stuff tends to have weather barriers under the buttons/knobs and also in the lenses. All the Nikon "G" type lenses I have(G lenses=no aperture ring) have a gasket around the lens mount to give some sealing to the camera body.
There are videos out there on Youtube of "torture testing" various cameras with things like holding them under water from a water hose and seeing if they will both keep out water and continue to function. The top of the line pro cameras(Nikon single digits, Canon 1D) tend to fair very well, as do the "semi pro" cameras(D850, D500, 5D, 7D).
I've been impressed with Nikons and weather sealing even going back to the F3(1980). I've ventured pretty deep inside an F3, and there are a surprising number of gaskets and rubber barriers.
You're not going swimming or diving with any of these without an external enclosure, but a mild rainstorm or even a downpour, a Sahara Dust Storm, or other things like that(just see the Lens Rentals articles on not taking your cameras to Burning Man 🙂 ).
bunnspecial
macrumors G3
A few thoughts in addition to the above:
DSLRs come in a wide range of qualities and abilities. Even the low end ones are pretty darn good these days, and for the new user often are effectively a point and shoot with a big, clear optical viewfinder and the ability to change lenses better suited to specific tasks. Where they can really separate themselves from P&S cameras is, IMO, the ability to shift into full control of what the camera is doing with things like actual direct(or direct-ish) manual focus that you can see through the viewfinder and easy access to manual controls. Also, in any mode, your typical DSLR will feel a lot more responsive than your typical P&S.
When you move up to higher end cameras, a lot of times you lose a lot of the scene and full auto modes. Those are cameras where you do need to have some understanding of what's going on, but at the same time they still offer a lot more automation than Canon's AE-1(which for a long time held the top-selling SLR record) offered in the late 1970s, and that was a camera that everybody and their brother had(or one of its direct competitors from other makes).
In that respect, I don't think they're any easier or more difficult to use than MILCs, which largely track their SLR counterparts in terms of feature sets at different price points. One key difference is that with CaNikon, you don't have the $400 entry level kit in their respective mirrorless systems, but there are some lower end crop sensor cameras around. To that end also, on the better cameras, Sony seems to have the weirdest, clunkiest, most backward menu system I've used(and that's coming from a Nikon user). Also, remember that by and large, full frame mirrorless lenses are similar in size to their SLR counterparts(aside from WAs that don't need complex retrofocus designs) and f/2.8 zooms or fast primes can easily make differences in body weight insignificant. In the world of DSLRs, my 24-70 f/2.8(close to 2lbs) feels about as heavy on my shoulder/neck whether it's attached to my D800/D810(34 oz) or Df(27oz) even though the Df is considered a lightweight camera.
DSLRs come in a wide range of qualities and abilities. Even the low end ones are pretty darn good these days, and for the new user often are effectively a point and shoot with a big, clear optical viewfinder and the ability to change lenses better suited to specific tasks. Where they can really separate themselves from P&S cameras is, IMO, the ability to shift into full control of what the camera is doing with things like actual direct(or direct-ish) manual focus that you can see through the viewfinder and easy access to manual controls. Also, in any mode, your typical DSLR will feel a lot more responsive than your typical P&S.
When you move up to higher end cameras, a lot of times you lose a lot of the scene and full auto modes. Those are cameras where you do need to have some understanding of what's going on, but at the same time they still offer a lot more automation than Canon's AE-1(which for a long time held the top-selling SLR record) offered in the late 1970s, and that was a camera that everybody and their brother had(or one of its direct competitors from other makes).
In that respect, I don't think they're any easier or more difficult to use than MILCs, which largely track their SLR counterparts in terms of feature sets at different price points. One key difference is that with CaNikon, you don't have the $400 entry level kit in their respective mirrorless systems, but there are some lower end crop sensor cameras around. To that end also, on the better cameras, Sony seems to have the weirdest, clunkiest, most backward menu system I've used(and that's coming from a Nikon user). Also, remember that by and large, full frame mirrorless lenses are similar in size to their SLR counterparts(aside from WAs that don't need complex retrofocus designs) and f/2.8 zooms or fast primes can easily make differences in body weight insignificant. In the world of DSLRs, my 24-70 f/2.8(close to 2lbs) feels about as heavy on my shoulder/neck whether it's attached to my D800/D810(34 oz) or Df(27oz) even though the Df is considered a lightweight camera.
It is not waterproof but just for some amateur perspective. I am a useless photographer and actually prefer video to still images. However, I did buy a Canon D700 and three lens and surprised myself at how easy it was to use an entry level DSLR camera and get great results. So don't discount that option and just look at compacts.
The question is whether for beginners Without advanced technical skills, a DSLR or a mirrorless would produce similar photos to a point and shoot or even an iPhone with pro camera apps?
I am a beginner without any technical skills with cameras. My 10 cents? A phone is a phone and as they progress and the Apps evolve they probably take great pics. However, if you want to get into photography get a base model DSLR. There is no way a phone with a camera will replicate a decent DSLR.
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I am not up to date on the latest technology I admit. The only comparison I have is iPhone X compared to Canon D700.
D700 knocked it out of the park. Maybe the iPhone 11 Pro is better I don't know.
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I am not up to date on the latest technology I admit. The only comparison I have is iPhone X compared to Canon D700.
D700 knocked it out of the park. Maybe the iPhone 11 Pro is better I don't know.
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r.harris1
macrumors 68020
I think it all depends on you: Where do you want to take your photography?
Note on the term “image quality”. This tends to be a quantitative term that reflect sensor signal-to-noise ratio, dynamic range (how many stops can a sensor cover at base ISO), etc. It doesn’t tend to refer to the subjective “do I personally like the picture” sorts of statements 🙂.
iPhones, etc: There are lots of people who make great images on their iPhone or similar (@akash.nu in this forum, for example). If you operate in the 13-50mm range a lot, post to social media or are otherwise web-based, don’t specifically want to carry a phone and a separate camera, these work great. All cameras do “computational photography” at different stages - they’re digital, after all. Phones have very small sensors and plastic lenses so there’s a lot of algorithmic work to handle noise reduction at capture or other small sensor challenges, lens challenges such as adding bokeh, shallow depth-of-field, and the like. They tend to do a very good job. Depending on the camera app, as has been pointed out, you can control some of the exposure settings. Obviously video is a strong part of a phone offering as well. Decent weather sealing.
Point-and-shoots: Examples are the Sony cameras mentioned above and plenty of others. You tend to get larger sensors, nicer lenses with actual glass, a wider range of focal lengths, more straight-forward controls over exposure settings if you choose. Things like bokeh and depth-of-field tend to be more a function of the glass and sensor relationship rather than algorithmic. You might be able to do more in the realm of long exposures, depending on the camera. For example, I rate my Fuji x100f as point-and-shoot, and it has ND filter capabilities for certain kinds of motion blur effects and long-ish exposure. Decent video. Depending on manufacturer, can have decent weather sealing.
DSLR/Mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras. Often the best sensors and best glass. Best measurable IQ. More expensive (although top line iPhones are nothing to sneeze at cost-wise), but much more control. From decent to fantastic video, if that’s your thing. Weather sealing.
So the answer is, it depends 🙂.
Note on the term “image quality”. This tends to be a quantitative term that reflect sensor signal-to-noise ratio, dynamic range (how many stops can a sensor cover at base ISO), etc. It doesn’t tend to refer to the subjective “do I personally like the picture” sorts of statements 🙂.
iPhones, etc: There are lots of people who make great images on their iPhone or similar (@akash.nu in this forum, for example). If you operate in the 13-50mm range a lot, post to social media or are otherwise web-based, don’t specifically want to carry a phone and a separate camera, these work great. All cameras do “computational photography” at different stages - they’re digital, after all. Phones have very small sensors and plastic lenses so there’s a lot of algorithmic work to handle noise reduction at capture or other small sensor challenges, lens challenges such as adding bokeh, shallow depth-of-field, and the like. They tend to do a very good job. Depending on the camera app, as has been pointed out, you can control some of the exposure settings. Obviously video is a strong part of a phone offering as well. Decent weather sealing.
Point-and-shoots: Examples are the Sony cameras mentioned above and plenty of others. You tend to get larger sensors, nicer lenses with actual glass, a wider range of focal lengths, more straight-forward controls over exposure settings if you choose. Things like bokeh and depth-of-field tend to be more a function of the glass and sensor relationship rather than algorithmic. You might be able to do more in the realm of long exposures, depending on the camera. For example, I rate my Fuji x100f as point-and-shoot, and it has ND filter capabilities for certain kinds of motion blur effects and long-ish exposure. Decent video. Depending on manufacturer, can have decent weather sealing.
DSLR/Mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras. Often the best sensors and best glass. Best measurable IQ. More expensive (although top line iPhones are nothing to sneeze at cost-wise), but much more control. From decent to fantastic video, if that’s your thing. Weather sealing.
So the answer is, it depends 🙂.
Fishrrman
macrumors Nehalem
OP:
I don't believe you told us your budget.
What is your "spending limit"?
I don't believe you told us your budget.
What is your "spending limit"?
deep diver
macrumors 68030
A visit to a local camera store will give you a chance to put your hands on many of the options. Most stores have some kind of rental program so you can give them a try.
Regardless of what you finally decide, keep in mind that the camera is only a tool. The photographer makes the image, not the camera. Once you make your choice, it is important to get out and shoot. Also, look at the images of other photographers to learn about framing, composition, exposure, etc.
Scepticalscribe
macrumors Haswell
Thanks for all the advice, very useful. Would it be correct to say that point and shoot would achieve effects described without any complex post editing? How are point and shoots in low light?
Apple fanboy
macrumors Ivy Bridge
All images benefit from some form of editing. The better quality file you put in the better quality file you can get out. Shooting in RAW format gives you a lot more scope. Especially if you got your exposure a bit wrong to begin with.
That said any Mirroless or DSLE will have semi auto modes. You control the Aperture (which as well as changing the amount of light you let in, also controls the depth of field), the camera will chooses the shutter speed for you. In an iPhone you can never change the aperture, even with a pro app. It is fixed.
No one else has mentioned it but have you considered second hand? Lots of people are selling DSLR kit as they switch to Mirroless or just because they bought an entry level kit and moved on. Some even give up this great hobby of ours! 😱
So there are some real bargains to be had for not much money. Even if money isn't much of an issue (you didn't mention budget), you can dip your toe without breaking the bank. If you buy second hand camera kit from a camera shop its usually be serviced and has a guarantee. Steer clear of eBay unless you know what you are looking for.
r.harris1
macrumors 68020
It depends on the specifics of the effects, but in general, yes, you should be able to achieve particular looks with straight forward post processing. I find it helpful (just for my own mind, not necessarily anyone else 🙂)to break post processing into two types: "filter-based" and "full-on", the former being that I can chose a filter (a "look") and be done, maybe a click here and there for reducing particularly nasty noise."Full on" is the whole "I'm gonna mess with colors, exposure, contrast, curves, noise, levels, etc to get exactly what I want" type of approach. Most applications, from Apple's Photos to Lightroom to Capture One to Luminar and many others have the ability to do both but have a "preferred" approach - some more on the "filter-based", others more "full-on". Photos is an example of the former, Capture One is an example of the latter.
Yes, most point-n-shoots (and newer iPhones, Pixel phones, etc) can do reasonably well in low light (certainly up to ISO 6400-ish) without complex post processing (depending on your tolerances and taste of course). That's where being able to check out a camera in person would be great to see if it meets with your own preferences. Reasonable review sites like dpreview.com or imaging-resource.com (there are zillions more) are good to check out too.
What software do you use today for post processing? Also, and maybe I missed this, what type of photography do you like to do? Weather sealing seems critical to you - what sorts of environments do you shoot in?
Do note that when we are talking about DSLR/mirrorless, the lens is more important than the body. You can have an expensive camera, but the picture will be just so so if you use a kit lens. Great lenses are the key, and they definitely are not cheap (unless you want to dwelve into adapting old lenses with manual focus etc). Then you still have to learn processing RAW files to unlock the real potential of DSLRs/mirrorless.
Without advance technique skills, an iPhone will be the better tool to learn and enjoy photography imo. Instant result, instant feedback on the screen, quick adjustments and sharing on the spot, can't beat the versatility of a smartphone.
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