iPod touch Can Apps be given out without the developer plan?

[BioCore]

Hey everyone,

I was wondering, since the iPhone and iPod touch SDK will be released soon will it be possible for developers who do not wish to buy the developer plan ($99 version) to still offer there apps to others but not through the app store? Such as through their own means, like a website?

 

[Ivan P]

Well of course, but it would be illegal.

 

[crazzyeddie]

It will supposedly be impossible to offer your own apps.

1) You won't be able to load them directly onto the iPod/iPhone.

2) All apps are required to be "signed" so that you know you're getting a legitimate application that Apple has reviewed.

 

[BioCore]

Oh I see. Ok thanks for the information.

 

[davidy]

Well of course, but it would be illegal.

HUH???

What law do you think would cover this?

The iPod touch is an electronic device that you bought and paid for. You can do anything you want to it. Just like a radio, television, computer, microwave oven, etc.

As in the case of a computer, you can create your own programming or load in someone else's programming at will. Likewise, you can provide programming to someone else for their personal use.

I don't know how this notion of illegality came about regarding what you can or can not do to Apple's iPod touch, but it is not true. It's yours. Do anything you like to it.

 

[razorianfly]

HUH???

What law do you think would cover this?

The iPod touch is an electronic device that you bought and paid for. You can do anything you want to it. Just like a radio, television, computer, microwave oven, etc.

As in the case of a computer, you can create your own programming or load in someone else's programming at will. Likewise, you can provide programming to someone else for their personal use.

I don't know how this notion of illegality came about regarding what you can or can not do to Apple's iPod touch, but it is not true. It's yours. Do anything you like to it.

No, it's not illegal, your right. There is no existing law which would conflict these actions.

What does exist is the EUA (End User Agreement) and SLA (Software License Agreement). Apple create the software, and with it, the experience. So no, you essentially cannot do what you want with it regarding the software. Apple provide the software which you agreed to use under their SLA. The SLA states that any modification of the software voids your warranty and breaks this SLA on which Apple licensed the software to you, for your use.

This also applies to 'Jail-breaking'.

It is in no way 'yours' to do what you wish with it.

R-Fly

 

[GFLPraxis]

Well of course, but it would be illegal.

No, it wouldn't be illegal at all.

However, the apps wouldn't be able to run without Apple's signature, so they'd be useless.

Except to people who jailbreak their iPhones. Which is perfectly legal, but violates your warranty.

 

[davidy]

No, it's not illegal, your right. There is no existing law which would conflict these actions.

What does exist is the EUA (End User Agreement) and SLA (Software License Agreement). Apple create the software, and with it, the experience. So no, you essentially cannot do what you want with it regarding the software. Apple provide the software which you agreed to use under their SLA. The SLA states that any modification of the software voids your warranty and breaks this SLA on which Apple licensed the software to you, for your use.

This also applies to 'Jail-breaking'.

It is in no way 'yours' to do what you wish with it.

R-Fly

To your point regarding the EUA and SLA, When I bought my iPod touch and when you bought yours, neither of us were given a copy of any "EUA" of "SLA" documents, and certainly, no signed agreement exists. Copyright laws exist which would prevent one from appropriating Apple's software, or changing any part of it, for personal use. You can, however, create other software which will work in conjunction with the Apple software. This is the basis for jailbreaking. There are thousands of existing webapps and native apps which have been developed (prior to the SDK) expressly for the iPohone and touch. I don't see Apple going after any of these developers for copyright infringement or softward piracy. None of these existing applications require any type of "Apple signature", whatever that is.

You can do anything you want to your iPod touch, you just can't modify the software, although you can add to it. For that matter, you could erase the programming all together and install Windows or Linux if you have the expertise to do so. It's no different from your home computer. You bought a computer with a pre-installed operating system. If you don't like the operating system, you can buy programs which enhance the operation of the computer. Or, you can remove the operating system and install another brand of operating system.

 

[dagored]

To your point regarding the EUA and SLA, When I bought my iPod touch and when you bought yours, neither of us were given a copy of any "EUA" of "SLA" documents, and certainly, no signed agreement exists. Copyright laws exist which would prevent one from appropriating Apple's software, or changing any part of it, for personal use. You can, however, create other software which will work in conjunction with the Apple software. This is the basis for jailbreaking. There are thousands of existing webapps and native apps which have been developed (prior to the SDK) expressly for the iPohone and touch. I don't see Apple going after any of these developers for copyright infringement or softward piracy. None of these existing applications require any type of "Apple signature", whatever that is.

You can do anything you want to your iPod touch, you just can't modify the software, although you can add to it. For that matter, you could erase the programming all together and install Windows or Linux if you have the expertise to do so. It's no different from your home computer. You bought a computer with a pre-installed operating system. If you don't like the operating system, you can buy programs which enhance the operation of the computer. Or, you can remove the operating system and install another brand of operating system.

Very well put.

 

[Spazzer]

To your point regarding the EUA and SLA, When I bought my iPod touch and when you bought yours, neither of us were given a copy of any "EUA" of "SLA" documents, and certainly, no signed agreement exists. Copyright laws exist which would prevent one from appropriating Apple's software, or changing any part of it, for personal use. You can, however, create other software which will work in conjunction with the Apple software. This is the basis for jailbreaking. There are thousands of existing webapps and native apps which have been developed (prior to the SDK) expressly for the iPohone and touch. I don't see Apple going after any of these developers for copyright infringement or softward piracy. None of these existing applications require any type of "Apple signature", whatever that is.

You can do anything you want to your iPod touch, you just can't modify the software, although you can add to it. For that matter, you could erase the programming all together and install Windows or Linux if you have the expertise to do so. It's no different from your home computer. You bought a computer with a pre-installed operating system. If you don't like the operating system, you can buy programs which enhance the operation of the computer. Or, you can remove the operating system and install another brand of operating system.

First - On the inside cover of the booklet that came with MY iPod touch it says:
Software License Agreement
Use of the iPod touch is subject to the Apple and third party software license terms found at: www.apple.com/legal/sla

Second - You say that you can't modify the software (correct) but you can "add to it". The only way to "add to it" is to modify it (jailbreak)!

Spazzer

 

[Blackheart]

First - On the inside cover of the booklet that came with MY iPod touch it says:
Software License Agreement
Use of the iPod touch is subject to the Apple and third party software license terms found at: www.apple.com/legal/sla

Second - You say that you can't modify the software (correct) but you can "add to it". The only way to "add to it" is to modify it (jailbreak)!

Spazzer

Step 1) Install Developer tools.
Step 2) Write iPhone application.
Step 3) Load application onto iPhone for "testing"


... feel free to replace Step 2 with "Download someone else's Xcode project".

 

[Spazzer]

Step 1) Install Developer tools.
Step 2) Write iPhone application.
Step 3) Load application onto iPhone for "testing"


... feel free to replace Step 2 with "Download someone else's Xcode project".

In order to install developer tools (legally) you have to be one of the selected developers that Apple screened when the SDK was released.

 

[Blackheart]

In order to install developer tools (legally) you have to be one of the selected developers that Apple screened when the SDK was released.

I downloaded it without screening... just required an email address to register with Apple.

 

[dejo]

Step 1) Install Developer tools.
Step 2) Write iPhone application.
Step 3) Load application onto iPhone for "testing"


... feel free to replace Step 2 with "Download someone else's Xcode project".

But you can't perform Step 3 unless you have, at least, been accepted into the $99 iPhone Developer Program. Just having the iPhone SDK does not allow you to load applications onto an iPhone / iPod Touch for testing; you can only test using the iPhone Simulator, which lacks some of the features of a real device.

 

[Blackheart]

But you can't perform Step 3 unless you have, at least, been accepted into the $99 iPhone Developer Program. Just having the iPhone SDK does not allow you to load applications onto an iPhone / iPod Touch for testing; you can only test using the iPhone Simulator, which lacks some of the features of a real device.

My bad.

 

[goosnarrggh]

So there'll be five classes of iPod Touch users:
1) Regular joes who buy the device and never even think about Apps for it.
My bet is this will be the largest group of users for the immediately predictable future.

2) Power users who purchase/download apps from the official app store.
My prediction is that this will make up the second largest chunk initially, and may grow to become the dominant group with time.

3) Registered developers who exclusively buy and sell their software through the official app store. (Note this does include the possibility of collaborative code design, and sharing experiences, advice, and generic snippets of code to help out their colleagues - but not the wholesale transfer of entire apps.)
I think this will probably be a relative minority, but nowhere near as small as what comes next:

4) Registered developers who regularly share complete applications with their buddies who also happen to be registered developers in source code form, bypassing the official app store. They may or may not also participate in the official portion of the applicaiton ecosystem as it suits them.

And finally,
5) People who bypass the entire official development system, and continue to jailbreak their iPod Touches and iPhones as they have in the past.
These people will continue to persist no matter what Apple tries to do about them. It seems to me that they might really be doing something illegal -- albeit, it's an area of law which I'm told (I'm not a lawyer) is largely untested in court so it's difficult to say just how broad one can be in one's interpretation. But it also seems to me that Apple has seen fit to play a cat-and-mouse game with these people, going back and forth with exposing and patching security vulnerabilities, and Apple hasn't brought out the big legal guns yet. As long as these hackers continue to be nothing more than a minor irritant, I suspect Apple will be content to continue dealing with them in the same way hey have so far.