Can aTV 1 wake a sleeping iMac for access to iTunes

Discussion in 'Apple TV and Home Theater' started by MrMister111, Mar 17, 2011.

  1. MrMister111 macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #1
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

    Is it possible for my Apple TV 1 to wake my sleeping iMac so I can access my iTunes library rather than waking the iMac manually?

    I have a DLink router which is connected wired to my iMac, and the aTV 1 is wireless to the router.

    I know I can sync stuff to the aTV HDD which I do but sometimes want to also browse shared stuff. Also my movies are on a NAS which the iTunes referenced to for access

    Hope someone can help as I plan to get a aTV 2 soon which is completely streaming and so would need to be able to wake iMac up.

    I have Snow Leopard on and know that if you have an Apple Airport extreme or Apple Time Machine it can wake iMac but I don't and surely this isn't the only solution. ie to buy one of these?

    Cheers
     
  2. fpnc macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2002
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #2
    If it were connected by ethernet then it would probably work. However, I think that wireless wake for network access only works with Apple's own WiFi routers.

    However, I wouldn't just go out a buy a new AirPort Extreme/Express on my word alone. You should verify the behavior by doing a search on Google or go over to Apple's Apple TV forums and check for an answer there (it has most likely already be asked/answered on that forum).
     
  3. adbe macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    #3
    That's true, but only if the device to be woken is wireless. If the iMac is already wired, no extra hardware should be needed (regardless of how the aTV is connected).

    Most likely the iMac is just not configured correctly, or iTunes is being useless, and needs a loving kick.
     
  4. fpnc, Mar 17, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2011

    fpnc macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2002
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #4
    It's a fairly complex matrix of factors, it also depends upon the model/version of the Mac and the version of software that is running on the Mac and the Apple TV. Some Macs can't be awoken over WiFi regardless of the router or system software. In fact, i think you may need a Mac that was made in the last few years for wireless wake to even be supported. Wake for network administrator access over ethernet (Wake on LAN), however, should work with almost any Mac (well, any Intel Mac, I'm not certain whether all PowerPC Macs support this feature -- most should). However, Snow Leopard's Wake on Demand feature is different than the previously supported wake for network administrator access option.

    Here is a MacUser article which seems to answer a lot of the wake on demand requirements and also shows how to set it up.

    http://www.macworld.com/article/142468/2009/08/wake_on_demand.html

    <edit>I think this is the situation. Wake on Demand (which would be required for an Apple TV to wake a sleeping Mac) requires Snow Leopard and one of Apple's own WiFi routers or a Time Capsule. However, for it to work with a wirelessly connected Mac you need a fairly recent Mac, maybe from late 2008 or sometime in 2009. I'm not certain whether Wake on Demand is supported by any third-party routers, Apple doesn't say whether it can work with other routers, you may have to search the internet and Apple's own support forums to find out if anyone else supports this feature).

    Note the difference in the terminology: Wake on Demand versus Wake on LAN (or, for the latter, wake on network administrator access). The two are not the same, only Wake on Demand will allow an Apple TV to awake a sleeping Mac.

    However, you can use a network utility to wake pretty much any recent Mac as long as it is connected via wired ethernet (this uses the Wake on LAN feature which is supported on a lot of hardware).
     
  5. adbe macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    #5
    Again though, given that the OP has SL, and the iMac is wired, an AEBS should not be needed. I used[1] to run exactly that set-up without any issues. I've used a range of routers, but never an AEBS. If the iMac was wirelessly connected, I'd have needed the AEBS.

    That's true. My iMac is 2009 or later, and definitely supports WOL for both ethernet and WiFi. I can't speak for earlier models. I believe if the Mac doesn't support it, the feature is not available in the System Prefs though, right?

    For WiFi? Not that I know of. I think they could, as I believe it is just a Bonjour service running on the AEBS that broadcasts the services offered by the wireless device when the device itself is not listening[2]. Since Bonjour is pretty much zeroconf, I doubt it'd be hard to add, or too proprietary, but since it's an Apple only feature I suspect there's just no demand.

    For end to end ethernet any router will work fine. The same is true for the old wake for admin option.



    [1] I now have everything wired, including the aTV, but that's a different story.

    [2] That's not exactly what happens, but it's good enough for the scope of this discussion. ;)
     
  6. MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #6
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

    Thanks for replies. I've also asked in Apple discussion forum but nothing as yet.

    My iMac was bought in Xmas 2007, its an Alu iMac with core 2 duo 2Ghz and SL this is connected wired to the router. My Apple TV 1 is wirelessly connected to the router.

    That article says about 2008,2009 models so unsure.

    I just can't believe that Apple wouldn't support this feature as it must be a common situation
     
  7. adbe macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    #7
    Have a look in your power management prefs for the "Wake for network access" (it needs to be called exactly that) option. If it isn't there, or is called by a different name, then your Mac probably doesn't support the newer generalized ethernet wake up.
     
  8. pjarvi macrumors 65816

    pjarvi

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2006
    Location:
    Round Lake, IL
    #8
    The easiest way to find out would be to simply try it:

    1.) Open System Preferences on your iMac
    2.) Goto: Energy Settings
    3.) Check the box: "Wake for network access"
    4.) Open iTunes (not certain if this is required, but wouldn't hurt)
    5.) Put the iMac to sleep
    6.) Try watching/listening to something on the AppleTV that you know is not synched to the hard drive in the AppleTV

    I use this feature myself every night. I have a 2006 MacBook with Snow Leopard, however I am also using a Time Capsule instead of a 3rd party router. When the feature was first announced it was stated as requiring an AEBS or Time Capsule, but just try the test above and see if it works without one.
     
  9. mstrze macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2009
    #9
    It is most DEFINITELY required. If iTunes isn't open, the ATV wouldn't know where to go for its files...heck, the non-synced material wouldn't even show up in the menu if iTunes isn't open in my experience.

    I don't sync, only stream to my 1st gen ATV and I have been 'waking on wireless' for nearly 2 years without issues. I have an iMac Mini, but alas I do have AEBS. Still, it is worth a shot to see if your router will allow the w.o.w.
     
  10. fpnc, Mar 18, 2011
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2011

    fpnc macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2002
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #10
    Given your equipment (pre-2008 iMac and third-party WiFi basestation) we know that the Apple TV couldn't wake your iMac if the iMac was using WiFi to connect to the basestation. However, you say that the iMac is connected over wired ethernet, so that shouldn't be a concern for you.

    However, user adbe says that he has gotten Wake on Demand to work on his system which used a non-Apple basestation/router. Therefore, according to him it should just work if your iMac is connected via wired ethernet. I'm still not 100% convinced that it would work with every third-party basestation/router, but based upon the information from adbe you should be able to confirm this yourself by just following the recommendations from pjarvi and mstrze (as well as the setup guide that was in the link I gave earlier).
     
  11. MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #11
    Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8F190 Safari/6533.18.5)

    I will try just to see if works, hopefully this w/end but was wondering apart from the tick box in SL settings if anything else was needed.

    It may not work, but someone may know of any extra settings/tricks to help

    I'm not sure what aebs is but will google it to see if applys to me and my router

    Cheers
     
  12. adbe macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    #12
    Just shorthand for the Airport Extreme Base Station.

    One thing it's worth keeping in mind is that your ATV will need to know what services are being offered by the iMac. Since a sleeping iMac is in no position to tell, the ATV will have needed to collect this information before the iMac dozes off.

    Other than that, you really shouldn't need to do anything clever.
     
  13. adbe macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    #13
    It really should. Unless of course the router is just sort of crap.

    Wake On Lan is pretty old tech. Macs didn't do much with it until recently of course, but in the Windows world being able to wake a PC for RDC or whatever is very old news.

    WiFi presents a number of challenges though. Packets are encrypted which typically means the OS needs to wake up just to decypher them. Also sleeping WiFi devices generally present a slightly different profile to other network clients than do sleeping Ethernet devices. This means that a) it's harder to wake WiFi, and b) it's harder to know whether the WiFi device is even there to be woken.

    So to do its magic, the AEBS does two things:

    1) It remembers which services are being offered by your Mac(s), and can offer them up even when the Mac is offline. Other clients simply see a phantom Mac. Whilst not essential for Ethernet, this feature does at least ensure that if the ATV is powered on after the iMac has gone to sleep, the ATV will still be aware of what the iMac was offering. Otherwise it'll arrive too late to get the message. If it's powered on first, then the AEBS is merely telling the ATV something it already knows.

    2) The AEBS can give modern Mac WiFi NICs a kick that approximates the functionality of Wake On LAN other Ethernet. I'm guessing this is a proprietary extension to zeroconf/bonjour similar to the one used by Airport Expresses when the config software locates them for the first time.
     
  14. MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #14
    Update:

    I ticked on my iMac "wake for network access" in energy settings.

    I have Home Sharing enabled.

    My iMac was asleep I opened iPod app on my iPhone 4, clicked shared item, it showed my library on iMac, clicked it, iMac woke up and connected - happy days.

    Set iMac to sleep again, went to my Apple TV 1, clicked My Movies, My Music, and just got the connect to iTunes please, and the iMac didn't wake.

    So what is the difference between the aTV 1 and the iPhone 4 that wakes and connects the iMac?

    anything else I can do/check please, was gutted when it didn't wake from the aTV 1

    cheers
     
  15. adbe macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    #15
    Not much, except better code on the iPhone.

    Try connecting your aTV to iTunes while the iMac is *awake*.

    Then once that's working, put the iMac to sleep, and try to access content through the aTV.
     
  16. munkees macrumors 65816

    munkees

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2005
    Location:
    Pacific Northwest
    #16
    I tested this out, I have 3 :apple:TVs first gen, I use a Airport express, connect via ethernet to my Airport Extreme.

    my iTunes server is 2006 first gen intel iMac (accept it got a new HD, and processor upgrade).

    it worked, so now I can set the server to sleep, I already have it on a power down/up schedule
     
  17. MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #17
    I will try but don't think it will work
    Yeh I know this will work, as you have to have a AEBS, this can then wake the iMac as the AEBS know a service or something, I dont have an AEBS router though, just a DLink at moment.
     
  18. adbe macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2008
    #18

    Don't give up hope until you try it. My gen 1 can be downright f-ckwitty sometimes[1]. Anyone who has owned one will have seen times it juts flat out refuses to wake up servers, or decides there's no content even when it can.

    The fact that your WiFi iPhone can wake up the iMac and get an index tells you things can work.


    [1] The ATV being a little boneheaded is just part of its charm.
     
  19. MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #19
    Update...

    If I switch on my Apple TV, iMac asleep but with iTunes open, goto My Music, get message, "connect to iTunes...", wont wake the iMac.

    If I do what you said
    Then it seems to work?!? ie If the Apple TV 1 has connected prior to it and seen the iTunes content, sending the iMac to sleep again, then going to My Music, it wakes the iMac and sees the iTunes content?!?

    So how does this work, only trouble looks to be if the Apple TV 1 has been switched off, or power cycled (something I do as dont use it for while, and also if on a long time, it seems to crash, whereby as power cycle is needed), this is nearly a solution, except the techno-phob wife I would not be able to explain this procedure to!

    I just want to switch on Apple TV 1, and then all iTunes content be there?!? (I'm thinkng now of moving my iTunes library off my USB plug in drive, and moving it to my NAS, which is always on)
     
  20. macmikey2 macrumors regular

    macmikey2

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2008
    Location:
    West Chester, PA
    #20
    Once you link the ATV 1 to your iTunes you don't need to worry about connecting them again. They stay linked, through restarts and power off. I have one and have a similar issue as I use a MBP and my iTunes is on that. If the MBP is off or iTunes is not running, then ATV 1 shows my linked 'computer' (in the Settings - Computers of ATV) as greyed out.

    I finally synced all of my Music to my ATV so when my MBP is in my bag or just not running, I can still access the music.

    Personally I would just turn off the iMac display and leave it running most of the time. Any Electronics person will tell you it is most likely better to leave them running than shut down/sleep and then turn back on over and over again (stress on components going hot then cold then hot).

    Mikey
     
  21. MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #21
    yeh my screen goes off after 15mins, but its just I have boot camp installed, and my wife uses Windows on my iMac (and the kids).

    So if she then has to get it booted into SL, start itunes etc, to be able to get content on Apple, and then if I have this issue (I know I can start iTunes auto on login)

    but at the mo I have a random prob with the startup disk, sometimes it starts Windows as default, sometimes not, and when in SL, the startup disk is missing for Windows, although as I say the partition is shown in Finder and it does boot :(
     
  22. MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Location:
    UK
    #22
    But mine doesnt, It works once its linked, but then on a power cycle of AaTv 1, I then goto My Music and it says "connect to iTunes"

    I've just bought a 2nd hand Airport Extreme base station, to see of this wil help off flea bay, £50 Wireless N, hope this will help
     

Share This Page