Can someone explain Apples fascination with power efficiency?

[BenTrovato]

And as someone pointed out earlier in this threa: all major pc laptop builders have faster options some of which are positioned as gaming rig but also in the mobile workstation area which the MacBook pro is part of. So clearly there is a market for this kind of machine.

There is absolutely a market for that type of machine but there is no business case for it. Apple builds closed systems for production efficiency. The options for GPU's that fit in these laptops are limited. They have looked at what it would take to offer more powerful GPU's, calculated how much money they would make and decided the benefits do not outweigh the costs. That's where we sit today. Apple (sometimes unfortunately for us) makes a lot of decisions this way.

As someone pointed out earlier.. they make the machines for the 90%. When you can adjust your entire supply chain for 90% (or higher) of your product line, you're going to be very profitable and very efficient.

 

[iKrivetko]

Because it's a bloody laptop.

 

[Manuelrodrigues]

Because it's a bloody laptop.

Sorry I dont understand. Could you explain?

 

[marc55]

Apple isn't the only manufacturer concerned with efficiency. Dell's XPS-15 with the 91WH battery claims up to 10 hours of battery life.

It's something that a good percentage of the consumers like me apparently want.; lighter weight and longer battery life. We all want portability.

In reality, it's been going on since the invention of the laptop; just think back on how bulky they used to be.

 

[Cloudsurfer]

Less carbon emissions? One MacBook may not make a difference, but millions at once? Isn't there a reason why things in general, be it electronics or vehicles, get more efficient every year? As long as we're burning fossil fuels to generate our energy I'm quite happy with the trend towards more efficient devices.

 

[TechZeke]

Tell me where I EXACTLY said that professionals need 32GB and then I'll define professional. I was just exacerbating the idea of "asking for more RAM/GPU will cause a bunch of 'why you need that' replies". As I could have said 16, or 64, it doesn't matter. Do we really have to justify to others all the time our needs?
An example: do you justify (or see others justifying) why you buy a car with 200 horse powers if a one with 120hp can do the same? Then you can understand why some of us are a bit tired of this situation.

And you are making a big mistake here: reducing ALL the professionals to a group of engineering professionals. You are not including video editors, audio engineers, profesional photographers, artists and architects who make renders, scientifics, etc. And no, I'm not justifying the "ask specifically for 32GB RAM", I am saying that there always will be someone that says: oh, with X you have more than enough, no matter what you do.

I wasn't generalizing in my post. I merely gave an example, because your post sounded if you were the one generalizing.

Your Quote:

Ah, and don't dare to ask for a better GPU or 32GB RAM or some staff like that in this forum, you'll have a crowd here judging your needs and saying that a iGPU and 8GB are enough even for professionals...

It sounds you were the one generalizing to me, which is why I gave you an example of my office. For some professionals, an iGPU and 8GB is enough. In your post you clearly make it sound as if telling a professional(which is a vague term to begin with.) that an iGPU and 8GB would enough would be incorrect, no matter what said professional's needs are. Good try though.

 

[brdeveloper]

As a designer I consider myself a prime example of the targetgroup of the MacBook pro lineup. As a freelancer I work a lot on location on my macbookpro. I never forget to bring my adapter so I don't actually need the nine hours of battery life. My question is:

Why are the rMBP specs especially the gpu chosen with battery life in mind? As a graphics pro I would rather have a beefier gpu in my MacBook pro and 1 hour battery life. The gpu options in windows laptops are much faster. This is frustrating.

Hope someone can explain.

Cheers,

Manuel

The graphics issue has nothing to do with power efficiency. They just couldn't put Nvidia Maxwells inside the rMBP case. Maybe next year Nvidia will provide smaller designs (hopefully) of 9XX Series GPUs.

 

[Woochoo]

I wasn't generalizing in my post. I merely gave an example, because your post sounded if you were the one generalizing.

Ok, so gonna use the same rock-solid argument you used: with iGPU and 8GB I was giving an example.

My own quotation: "don't dare to ask for a better GPU or 32GB RAM or some staff like that in this forum" Tell me, where do you see here, with the "specific and unambiguous 'or some staff like that' " that I meant it to be needed for every professional?

About the 8GB quote: Never said that it wouldn't be enough for ANY professional, so that makes your logic invalid.

Good try though

 

[Freyqq]

As a designer I consider myself a prime example of the targetgroup of the MacBook pro lineup. As a freelancer I work a lot on location on my macbookpro. I never forget to bring my adapter so I don't actually need the nine hours of battery life. My question is:

Why are the rMBP specs especially the gpu chosen with battery life in mind? As a graphics pro I would rather have a beefier gpu in my MacBook pro and 1 hour battery life. The gpu options in windows laptops are much faster. This is frustrating.

Hope someone can explain.

Cheers,

Manuel

Apple is all about aesthetics. They want a computer that is thin, light, and looks good in an apple store. A big GPU would require a lot of cooling, and it wouldn't result in a thin and light laptop.

The advantage for the PC side is that every possible configuration imaginable is available for purchase. Apple likes to just focus on a few model types to increase economy of scale.

The advantage for the mac side is that the few model types available are all high quality.

 

[paolo-]

The graphics issue has nothing to do with power efficiency. They just couldn't put Nvidia Maxwells inside the rMBP case. Maybe next year Nvidia will provide smaller designs (hopefully) of 9XX Series GPUs.

I'm not sure how much that holds up. How did Razer, a company that has 3 years of experience building computers, drop an 870m in a smaller computer than the 15" rMBP?

IMHO, Apple is under delivering. It's that simple.

 

[iKrivetko]

Sorry I dont understand. Could you explain?

Explain what? That laptops are meant to be power-efficient in order to be able to fulfil their duty as a portable computer?

Besides, if you really need as much power as you can get, and can be bothered enough to carry around a 4kg laptop with a .5kg power adaptor, you might as well buy a Mac Pro and carry that one.

 

[iKrivetko]

How did Razer, a company that has 3 years of experience building computers, drop an 870m in a smaller computer than the 15" rMBP?

I don't know how, but their engineers are clearly very heat-resistant, if they actually think that using a 50-degrees hot keyboard is a fantastic idea.

 

[TheIguana]

I'm not sure how much that holds up. How did Razer, a company that has 3 years of experience building computers, drop an 870m in a smaller computer than the 15" rMBP?

IMHO, Apple is under delivering. It's that simple.

This is a complex question, that probably has to do with a number of factors.

1) We have not seen major overhaul of the rMBP this year mainly because Intel failed to deliver on Broadwell. Traditionally, Apple has updated the CPU and the GPU at the same time. Rarely, if ever, has Apple only done GPU upgrades while retaining the same processor on their laptop models.

2) Other manufacturers are happy to redo their production pathway for a graphics upgrade - Apple just does not seem particularly interested. It's probably not money related, but a weighing of the time to benefit ratio. Is it a better use of their engineers time to develop a whole new Mac - or - to design and test a board with a completely different graphics hardware in it. I'm guessing Apple is going for the former. Folks seem to think it is as simple as just popping a new card on the logic board - my guess is there is a lot more nuanced engineering that has to happen.

3) Heat, Apple has gotten burned in the past for computers that run to hot. Whether that is complaints about fan speed (which can be quite cumbersome in production environments) or with component wear out. I don't think I need to mention the number of MBP models that have been plagued with graphics card failures (I myself have experienced this in 3 generations of MBPs).

 

[joe-h2o]

Ok, so gonna use the same rock-solid argument you used: with iGPU and 8GB I was giving an example.

My own quotation: "don't dare to ask for a better GPU or 32GB RAM or some staff like that in this forum" Tell me, where do you see here, with the "specific and unambiguous 'or some staff like that' " that I meant it to be needed for every professional?

About the 8GB quote: Never said that it wouldn't be enough for ANY professional, so that makes your logic invalid.

Good try though

Err, yes you did. You said "you'll be told that 8GB and an iGPU is enough even for professionals" followed by an eye roll.

It means exactly what you're being accused of.

You don't get to slip out of that little devious argument that easily. You just didn't like being called on it and realising you've lost the argument.

----------

The win7 laptop I bought 2 years ago has 32 gb ram, 1 tb ssd space spread over 3 super fast ssd disks and a gtx680m gpu. Even today it still is a monster and eats my rMBP raw. If it was as stable as the rMBP I would never have switched back.

I think you answered your own question about the way Apple designs its laptops.

 

[kittencounter]

I think if there is an option to order the rMBP with a more powerful GPU, a lot of ppl will be very happy but for some reason Apple doesn't offer it. All we can do is just to deal with it. For work where you make money, you will somehow make it works. Heck, ppl carry around the Mac Pro for their work if they have to. I couldn't care less what they label the machine. It could be "Hello Kitty Book Pink Edition" as long as it's the best choice for me to fulfill my work.

 

[barjam]

I wonder what % of folks who use a MBP would actually make use of a high end graphics card. I know I certainly wouldn't but need all the other features the laptop has to offer. An air would not suffice.

 

[goMac]

Can you render more on a laptop with 5 hours of battery life, or on a laptop with a 30% faster GPU with one hour of battery life?

 

[AxoNeuron]

Battery life might not be important to you. But for the vast majority of users, even power users like myself, battery life is incredibly important.

I do agree though, I wish they would at least add an option for a high-end discrete GPU in the retina MacBook pro. When I bought my retina MacBook pro back in 2012, I never imagined that I could possibly need more than 8GB RAM or a 650m. Boy was I wrong. I got into software development and now 8GB RAM and a 650m is very limiting.

 

[0x100]

anyone remember power pc? Thats probably why.

 

[leman]

2 years ago I switched to a win7 laptop to be able to render faster in After Effects. The laptop has a gtx680m. This gpu today still is 30% faster than the current rMBP with the gt750m which I also own. Source: Http://gpuboss.com. The form factor of the win7 laptop is much less sexi than the rMBP but I think the gt750m is just not a pro gpu. I think the current form factor and configuration of the retina MacBook pro is at best semi pro.

What 'pro' and non 'pro' means depends on the case in question. It makes sense to buy the best tool for the job. If a gaming laptop is better for you, then go for it. It seems obvious that the MacBook Pro does not meet your requirements and expectations.

As to why Apple does thing like they do — its because they believe its a good idea. They definitely do not aim to produce a laptop range that would meet everyone's expectations. If you need something else, don't buy Apple, its as easy as that.

 

[Woochoo]

Err, yes you did. You said "you'll be told that 8GB and an iGPU is enough even for professionals" followed by an eye roll.

It means exactly what you're being accused of.

Kk u win since you know better than me what were my thoughts. Luckily there are wise people that can enlighten other mortals like me, and who can clarify others thoughs.

Anyway, this all is becoming a pointless argue, the point (I repeat again) is that there will always be people who judge other people needs to justify their "this specs are OK for everybody, there's no need for more" opinion