Can someone walk me through the logic of future proofing with 16gb RAM?

[NickZac]

I didn't get the retina model MBP because 8gb is wayyy to little. I currently have 16 and I max that using service simulation systems and stat files working massive data sets, and when using select CS5.5 programs, 16GB gives me a huge advantage over 8. As I type this, I am using about 10 gigs doing a variety of programs. Until less than a year ago, 4 GB was more than enough. Now 16 is barely enough. So in my opinion, 8GB while still a lot by today's standards, will probably not be so much in a year or three. So if you are limited in that you cannot upgrade, I would personally say max it, because a year and a half down the road you won't have that luxury. The CPU in the MBP is a monster, and any SSD will be future proof for many, many years. The GPU is also as advanced as can be...and unless you do gaming or a few intense design work, a GPU doesn't go obsolete very quickly (for what I do, the ones from 3 generations ago would have done fine). IMO, the top limiting factor of the future proof will be RAM, and so 16GB is the way to go. But that just my three cents.

 

[macbook123]

I didn't get the retina model MBP because 8gb is wayyy to little. I currently have 16 and I max that using service simulation systems and stat files working massive data sets, and when using select CS5.5 programs, 16GB gives me a huge advantage over 8. As I type this, I am using about 10 gigs doing a variety of programs. Until less than a year ago, 4 GB was more than enough. Now 16 is barely enough. So in my opinion, 8GB while still a lot by today's standards, will probably not be so much in a year or three. So if you are limited in that you cannot upgrade, I would personally say max it, because a year and a half down the road you won't have that luxury. The CPU in the MBP is a monster, and any SSD will be future proof for many, many years. The GPU is also as advanced as can be...and unless you do gaming or a few intense design work, a GPU doesn't go obsolete very quickly (for what I do, the ones from 3 generations ago would have done fine). IMO, the top limiting factor of the future proof will be RAM, and so 16GB is the way to go. But that just my three cents.

It's remarkable that Apple is selling the higher end version of the Retina Pro with 2.6 GHz CPU upgrade, 512 GB SSD upgrade, but WITHOUT RAM upgrade.

Are there ways in which RAM usage could be reduced with ML?

 

[Trey M]

To me, future proofing is used in several different ways. First off, I agree with some others that the first thing to "bottleneck" your system will be your RAM. Obviously in 2 years your processor and GPU will be pretty outdated compared to the rest of the market, but that doesn't make the machine unusable. Many people love Macs because they'll last 6 or 7 years (even more in some cases). So I agree that the RAM is logically the first thing that'll hold you back, though how significantly is definitely not clear.

The second way I view future proofing is for resale value. Like I said, over time RAM will be the most needed resource, and to someone looking to buy a used machine, I think more RAM is definitely a bonus. It gives the used buyer confidence that the machine will last for their needs.

However, despite these things, someone made an interesting point the other day on these forums. They said if you look at the market, both the Windows and Mac OS's are becoming more lightweight in an effort to become more mobilized. This is definitely true for Windows 8, where the OS will be run on much less-powerful devices than laptops today. While the Mac OS is adopting a lot of the mobile features, I don't think it's becoming as lightweight as Windows simply because Apple is keeping iOS and OSX separate. Though severak features are the same, Apple, at this point, doesn't have to worry about hardware limitations because its mobile devices aren't running any form of OSX. This could change, who knows?

So the lightweight OS's are an interesting way to look at it, and when you think of it that way you may think "maybe 8GB will be sufficient in 5 years". The thing is no one has a definitive answer whether it will be or not, and people's usage varies greatly.

I couldn't decide for the longest time, having the base model originally, but I went ahead and ordered the base with 16GB RAM. Why? It'll help me stop second guessing myself, it'll help inevitable resale value, and I hope that, in some cases, I'll take advantage of the 16GB RAM. I couldn't stop worrying before I finally decided I was stressing way too much over $200 and I just decided to pull the trigger.

 

[samarth1]

I can give you a good reason.

I just bought a camera with 36.3 megapixels. There's a noticeable difference in handling between 8 and 16GB, especially if you have more than one image open in more than one application at a time.

All cameras are heading into higher and higher megapixel realms. Only matter of time before 24-36mp is straight-up normal on ever camera.

I agree with this, especially coming from experiencing bottlenecks in Lightroom 4.0 with my nikon D90's images, which are a "meager" 12MP. The 16gb RAM will help most in virtualization, video editing, and photography.

PS: I'm guessing you bought the D800? First, congrats on making it through the waitlist!. Second, how are you liking it? That's going to be my next major purchase after my rMBP (when I have enough money so as to not sell my kidney on craigslist).

 

[calaverasgrande]

For years computers used 32bit and could only address less than 4GB of ram including VRAM. Which means people only really had 3GB of system memory.

Now people are saying that you need 16GB? LOL What ever.

If you manage your system and keep stuff closed when your not using it then 8GB will be enough for the next 5 years EASY.

Yes and for years we used 16 bit and 1gb ram was a fantasy. We made do with 256MB of ram. LOL 3GB of ram!

I buy a new laptop roughly every 3 years. It is quite easy to see two or three OS upgrades as well as apps from Adobe and Microsoft.
With the exception of Leopard to Snow Leopard, at every OS upgrade I have seen higher ram utilization.
And with EVERY application upgrade I see more disk space and ram used. As well as more background processes.
I am sure an 8GB rMBP will be useful in a couple years. BtuI cant help but recall how I felt when I updated my Mac mini to Leopard. It only takes 2GB and Leopard pretty much needs most of that. Thankfully SL bought back some of that space.

 

[Fortimir]

PS: I'm guessing you bought the D800? First, congrats on making it through the waitlist!. Second, how are you liking it?

Got mine the day of release (March 23rd). ;-) I had one on order through my local store, but I was coming into wedding season and couldn't risk the wait. So when some guys on Nikonrumors were saying that a few Best Buys had them, I called EVERY Best Buy within 3 hours of me, and found one 2 1/2 hours away that had one. Called them up. Had them hold it. Got dressed and made the drive.

My local camera store called me almost two months later.

But yes, I really love it. The only qualms I have with it are the buffer when I'm doing panoramas, and the buffer after doing shots in live view. Otherwise, since I don't do sports, the frame rate is a non-issue to me. The image quality and handling are fantastic. I shot with a D700 for almost four years prior. Actually still use it as my secondary.

 

[katmeef]

I'm not even sure where you got the 41 TB figure from.
are you assuming the average user will put their rMBP into standby 7 times a day 365 days a year? Because that's the only way I can arrive at your 41 TB conclusion.

Yes, that's exactly how I arrived upon the number, as explained in my original post....

----------

I actually checked for this, and the default hibernate mode on the rMBP is actually 0, so I think safe sleep is disabled by default I'm guessing it only goes to hibernate when the battery is critically low.

Air's and Retina's use standby mode (30 days standby). cMBP doesn't get to use this feature, it can use hibernate instead.

Here's my default settings on my rMBP:


Matthews-MacBook-Pro:~ katmeef$ pmset -g
Active Profiles:
Battery Power 1*
AC Power 2
Currently in use:
standbydelay 4200
standby 1
halfdim 1
hibernatefile /var/vm/sleepimage
gpuswitch 2
disksleep 10
sleep 0 (imposed by 484)
hibernatemode 3
ttyskeepawake 1
displaysleep 2
acwake 0
lidwake 1
Matthews-MacBook-Pro:~ katmeef$

 

[leenak]

I bought mine through a corporate discount so it was something like $150 to upgrade the RAM. I figured why not plus my personal research has me working with large data sets.

 

[calaverasgrande]

Apple is like red bull they have some pretty cool products, they are different and niche but they are successful in how they are able to sell and market anything.

So Apple stole their product from a Thai company and proceeded to market an inferior version?
Sorry I was drinking Red Leopard and other "red" drinks that came out of SE Asia for a solid decade before red bull came out. Red bull is the pepsi of those drinks, widely available but crap.

 

[colour]

So Apple stole their product from a Thai company and proceeded to market an inferior version?
Sorry I was drinking Red Leopard and other "red" drinks that came out of SE Asia for a solid decade before red bull came out. Red bull is the pepsi of those drinks, widely available but crap.

I was comparing in terms of marketing success / strategy. But firstly, they didn't steal from a thai company, a partnership was created and both became very successful.

Huge amounts of money are spent on marketing, advertising, statistics and research to make maximize the chances of you buying a product. If you aren't aware of how much money, time and energy apple puts towards this it means apple is doing a great job at it. I just wish they would rely more on their products.

 

[Evil Spoonman]

- Memory requirements tend to increase with time.
- Memory requirements will be increasing more rapidly in the not so distant future because of the increase in asset size to drive sharp images on high resolution displays.
- 8GB today is enough for most moderate users, it is not that generous for most moderate users (Safari under moderate use will eat 1GB alone).
- In two years time, it is extremely possible, even likely, that 8GB will be what 4GB is today. Barely enough.
- You will not be able to upgrade your rMBP in two years to keep it relevant.

 

[pragmatous]

PC's 640KB usable RAM limit: "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates.

Never make that mistake in assuming "X amount is enough for anybody" philosophy.

I got the base model rMBP in store, and I still have a week to return/exchange, so just want some final opinions on this.

Right now, from my normal usage, I don't even have page outs with 8 gbs.

Once all the apps, and websites are updated with higher resolution assets, we'll see a bump in RAM usage, but I doubt it will exceed 8 gb.

The main problem I have with the "future proofing" argument is that.. well, the CPU and GPU are also going to be outdated and those are obviously not upgradeable. So what exactly are you future proofing if you just upgrade the RAM?

Also I'm curious for what everyone's profession is, and their choice regarding 8 gb vs 16 gb.

Me:

8gb
Software developer/designer

 

[ajcadoo]

Software is eventually developed to consume more RAM as time goes on. Remember when 512 MB of RAM on a Windows XP computer was A LOT?!

I bought my 2009 MBP with 2GB of RAM and I thought I would never need more than that. Eventually though, I upgraded to 8GB and I am glad I did, because everything was MUCH faster.

The 16 GB RAM upgrade is CRUCIAL for the retina since you will never be able to purchase and install it later in its life. It will also INCREASE its resale value for when you sell your RMBP.

Return that thing ASAP and get your 16Gigs!!!

----------

Also, the RAM upgrade is relatively cheap anyway.

And for kicks and giggles, at the time of writing this message, I was using 6.31 GB of RAM. That is almost 8 gigs bro. And all I have running is Safari. Although 2.7 GB is inactive at the moment. But still! Upgrade that NOW!

 

[iLikeTurtles!]

so itss not really future proofing if u say buy the high end macbook pro over the low end?

 

[mattonthemoon]

Software is eventually developed to consume more RAM as time goes on. Remember when 512 MB of RAM on a Windows XP computer was A LOT?!

I bought my 2009 MBP with 2GB of RAM and I thought I would never need more than that. Eventually though, I upgraded to 8GB and I am glad I did, because everything was MUCH faster.

The 16 GB RAM upgrade is CRUCIAL for the retina since you will never be able to purchase and install it later in its life. It will also INCREASE its resale value for when you sell your RMBP.

Return that thing ASAP and get your 16Gigs!!!

My 16GB is on order and my 8GB is being sent back. Apple is kind enough to let me keep this 8GB until the 16GB ships, due to all the confusion etc at launch. I was told it was upgradeable when i called as soon as it was announced.

 

[iamthedudeman]

1333MHz SODIMM 16GB Ram from amazon right now for $86.99 with no shipping charge, this is not an advertisement ! What it is telling you is that $87 is going to max out your machine so you don't have to worry about RAM problems for a few years and you can throw anything at it for. $86.99...... if you can afford a $1800-$2200 laptop you can afford 5% of that price to max out your ram THERE IS NO ARGUMENT.

Note: don't give in to apples "upgradless pro machines" their business model is an unethical money making equation.

Actually there is a good argument.

Since he got the base machine, since these machines are pretty much like like ipads, iphones where as if you have a problem, they either fix it for you or they give you a new machine. If you have a base or high end base, they will give you a new machine and just swap it out.

If you have a custom, you're going to have to get your machine fixed and your're going to have to wait. That is a point most people don't think about.

Note: don't give in to apples "upgradless pro machines" their business model is an unethical money making equation.[/QUOTE]

I agree with you here.