Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Can We Put the 16GB "Pro" Myth to Rest?
- Thread starter aevan
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
In 2012 the rmbp with 16gb ram was great. I didn't start burning thru swap space until around 2014. I've been waiting for this update for years to upgrade my ram. My work machine is constantly using swap space and it hurts performance. How is it an upgrade to go to another 16gb machine and still have to use swap space as ram?
I'm not saying it's the same, but it should be noted that the SSD's are considerably faster than the 2012 machines, performance hits from swap and paging should be much less noticeable today. Apple is using their own custom SSD controller (from what I've read) I find it amusing that no one bothers to give credit where credit is due on that.
The elephant in the room is using a virtual machine. For example multiple instances of Visual Studio in a windows VM will eat crazy amounts of RAM.
A dedicated windows machine for that example would call for 16 GB by itself. 8 GB and you'll be hurting.
A dedicated windows machine for that example would call for 16 GB by itself. 8 GB and you'll be hurting.
If they could figure out how to let a VMs share ram I would be ok on 16gb.
Yes, the 2012 machine would slow to a crawl when in swap space. Everything would start taking 10x longer and you could not continue to work without fixing it. That is the main reason I was forced to upgrade to the 2015. Now things only feel 2x slower when using swap. I've now been over 4 years in the apple ecosystem and I'm on my 2nd laptop which was outdated as soon as I got it. For most of this time as an apple customer, I've been using a machine with not enough ram while I wait for the next upgrade. This doesn't save me time, this isn't "just working", and it is actually quite expensive and infuriating.
I am a professional. I am somehow managing with 8GB. Absolutely love my new 13 MBP. Very snappy. Incredible screen. 3 pounds. actually like the new keyboard and giant track pad.
When I am at the desk, I plug into a LG ulrtrawide via a thunderbolt3 to thunderbolt dongle.
When I am mobile, most everything I do is wireless. Bought a usb ket that haws both an A connector and a C. No issues at all. Fits great on an airplane tray table.
When I am at the desk, I plug into a LG ulrtrawide via a thunderbolt3 to thunderbolt dongle.
When I am mobile, most everything I do is wireless. Bought a usb ket that haws both an A connector and a C. No issues at all. Fits great on an airplane tray table.
what are you guys in 1992 running a single app at a time and one webpage? I eat up all my ram with just safari, multiple tabs, mail, and a few apps for my work open, oh and my swap size is currently 7GBs. And yes thats with 16GB....I have a mid 2012 MBP and was waiting a long time for this laptop, but absolutely refuse to pay a more than premium price with ram stuck in the same place as 5 years ago.
Will absolute not buy another MBP until 32GB is an option, and anyone who is, is not buying a future proof mac.
Will absolute not buy another MBP until 32GB is an option, and anyone who is, is not buying a future proof mac.
You don't know how RAM works. System will always try fill up your RAM by design, whether you have 4Gb or 128Gb. And it will always write a swap file that is anything from 1Gb to 4x the size of your RAM, depending on several factors.
That has nothing to do with performance and how much RAM you're actually using.
What you should be looking for is memory pressure. In macOS it's easy to check in Activity Monitor. As long as it's green, you will see no benefit from adding more RAM.
For Safari and "a few apps" 8Gb is more than enough.
This is exactly the case where people think they need more RAM, but don't. I'm sure even the people here who legitimately need 32Gb for VMs can confirm what I just said.
I agree for the most part. I see people doing massive renders and projects in Maya. I guess notebooks can handle it, but the fan noise alone would drive me insane.
Browser testing sure. Developing for other OSes, no. Visual studio on average takes 3gb of memory for each instance (reserved, not used). It's only 32-bit so it will never eat more than that, but running 2 instances (which most developers will) generally will eat up memory quickly. But again, not as 16gb or 32gb quick. Swapping in Parallels / Mac and even Windows is actually pretty good so you most likely will not notice and can get away with assigned 4-8gb to a machine. Parallels even went as far as having their own memory management system that, to my surprise was insanely efficient. They actually recommend (and I do to now) that you assign as little memory as possible to your machines to keep them efficient.
Real question, how many people run more than 1 virtual machine at the same time to warrant the memory requirements? I'll tell you not many. I am actually working with the Parallels engineers right now on a huge bug that prevents 2 virtual machines from running properly in full screen in OS X Sierra. So far they state that only 7 tickets were submitted with the issue and it's something that can be recreated 100% of the time (Version 12 running Sierra). So clearly, not many.
Not buying the whole Apple is a victim, everyone is attacking poor apple because they have a fruit on their logo excuse. People complain because they complain. Apple is like all other companies, and customers will complain against them and all other companies. The apple "defenders" however, are definitely more vocal than say the Samsung enthusiasts, which kind of perpetuates the critics being more vocal about apple's faults.
As I read this post, the original poster just pissed me off beyond imagination. I am definitely one of those people that cried and cried and cried when I heard apple wouldn't do 32gb of ram. Then I took a true and I mean true deep look at my 32gb of current usage of memory and realized, 16gb is "enough". Not the best, not ideal, but very good. I think Apple made tradeoffs, and they decided absolutely perfect tradeoffs; NOTHING they can do would make most people happy (I'm not even saying all people happy, thats' not possible, I'm saying nothing they can do would even make "most" people happy). Because the tradeoffs suck. Heat, weight, size, battery life? All get affected by these decisions and the people that complain about the extra 3mm being shaved off... you'd be angry over the fact that the laptop would have been heavier than when it was originally released so many years ago regardless of specs.
This memory issue, however, is so damn complicated, that I haven't even seen anyone discuss the fact that the SSD on the Macs (are insanely fast (not ram fast, but...) that swapping isn't even a problem if you decide to over provision, even in VMs. It's not the same as RAM, but again, a pretty good tradeoff.
In the end, I guess I kind of agree with the OP. But definitely don't downplay people's needs.
People saying "I'm a professional! I only use 8gb!" is.... bizarre.
Great! You're fine then! There's a huge swath of professionals though - especially developers - who have been aching to upgrade for years and are now stuck in an impossible position outside of going Hackintosh.
Great! You're fine then! There's a huge swath of professionals though - especially developers - who have been aching to upgrade for years and are now stuck in an impossible position outside of going Hackintosh.
Sucks! You're not fine then!
If they did release a 32GB version, would people be happy with that? Or would we be seeing the same cries from people going "32GB is really enough for today, but to future proof I need 64GB of RAM, to not have 64GB in 2016 is ridiculous!". Just curious
Sucks! You're not fine then!
If they did release a 32GB version, would people be happy with that? Or would we be seeing the same cries from people going "32GB is really enough for today, but to future proof I need 64GB of RAM, to not have 64GB in 2016 is ridiculous!". Just curious
In a desktop? Certainly. In a laptop? 64gig is very rare in a laptop in 2016 for a host of reasons, nevermind ultraportable.
But the demands of software and tools leap forward with the tech available - and the tech outside the Mac is leaping forward.
In 2020, I've little doubt that people will want 64gigs to cope with the software that's then available.
Well, If you work in aftereffects and want to make long 4K previews at full resolution you will run out very quickly, just few seconds is enough to fill up your ram. You will be screaming for 64gb!
I'm running 8GB of Ram and satisfied. If purchasing a new MBP, I would consider 16GB of Ram, in the event as it cannot later be increased.
However I understand there are those who wish to use OSX (Mac OS, per Apple), retain it, but ideally need 32GB and more of Ram in a laptop. There is no discounting or dismissing this. The 2016 MBP does not meet such a need, simple as that. As one who has worked in such a field I understand the limitations this imposes, moreover the frustration in wondering if one will be forced to entirely abandon OSX for professional purposes.
If Apple and most of its current customer base are content with these limits—and they prove sustainable per Apple stock price—then so be it. But it is disingenuous at best to suggest there are those who do not require greater capability, when they flatly do.
However I understand there are those who wish to use OSX (Mac OS, per Apple), retain it, but ideally need 32GB and more of Ram in a laptop. There is no discounting or dismissing this. The 2016 MBP does not meet such a need, simple as that. As one who has worked in such a field I understand the limitations this imposes, moreover the frustration in wondering if one will be forced to entirely abandon OSX for professional purposes.
If Apple and most of its current customer base are content with these limits—and they prove sustainable per Apple stock price—then so be it. But it is disingenuous at best to suggest there are those who do not require greater capability, when they flatly do.
You're entirely correct and it's compounded by the 20 year effort by Apple to bring developers and high-end grunt creatives into the ecosystem - which is why there are so many that are bewildered.
Last edited:
And with this statement you've put paid to your own argument - the answer to who bought those from Apple's point of view is...not enough people! Hence they stopped making them, and why they are not going to offer that niche machine you want them to so badly anytime in the near future.
Sorry, man!
I am a pro. Not a "pro". Neither a "pro youtuber". In fact I don't even work with graphics and video. And not only do I need more than 16GB, I also need more than a laptop. It seems like Apple is not interested to provide either, probably the guys they hired as market research analysts believe I do not even exist. And by the way, I multitask like crazy.
As an Engineering student as well as someone whose made money doing CAD - I've been perfectly fine with 8GB on all my machines.(My gaming PC is 16GB because Cities Skylines can tear through RAM like a hot knife through butter on large maps with tons of Mods) You get plenty of Linus Sebastian (LTT) types who are always making a huge deal about RAM though. According to him, you need 16GB just to run Chrome.(Although Chrome is a poorly run program anyway) I comfortably run AutoCAD, Pixelmator, Visual Studio, Opera, Excel, Powerpoint and Word on 8GB of RAM. In fact, I'd argue that half(at least) of the professionals could get by on 8GB of RAM. Virtual Machines are no-go though.
With that said, I thought 32GB was for-sure this year.
With that said, I thought 32GB was for-sure this year.
Last edited: