Can We Put the 16GB "Pro" Myth to Rest?

[Freida]

For SOME. Not fot majority. That's the point. Are you really trying to tell me people work on major blockbusters.... on laptops?!

Please don't twist it. You know what I meant and I even mentioned it in my comment.
You can be a freelancer working on a commercial with heavy scene in Maya and 16gb just won't cut it.
So give them CTO option and the whole problem is sorted for everyone.

 

[jjjoseph]

What is professional about putting overclocked gaming specs over build quality, autonomy and mobility?

I think everyone is upset because a company like Apple CAN make a high end MacBook Pro more Professional than it is. With better specs then in current release.. They could make an awesome build, but they decided to make it ProSumer and call it professional. They chose size and weight over specs. If you look at the desktop MacPro, even though it is SUPER dated by today's standards, they where trying to make a computer for the Professional Market. They half heartily did it for the laptop market. Slapping Pro with current specs on the end of a the retina MacBook is kinda what they did.
[doublepost=1478886867][/doublepost]

For SOME. Not fot majority. That's the point. Are you really trying to tell me people work on major blockbusters.... on laptops?!

YES, I did. I worked with APPLE SHAKE on a MacBook pro doing 2k DPX film scans from 35mm Negative. Rendered out to DPX and used ARRI laser to burn back to celluloid.
This is a fact. It was for a major motion picture in a theatre.

 

[aevan]

Please don't twist it. You know what I meant and I even mentioned it in my comment.
You can be a freelancer working on a commercial with heavy scene in Maya and 16gb just won't cut it.
So give them CTO option and the whole problem is sorted for everyone.

How is it possible that you guys just don't understand. They CAN'T give you a CTO option without making the thing into a laptop that is against their core design principles. Even with a thicker design, it would still have a lousy battery. That is not what Apple stands for.

If they could put 32Gb RAM in this model - they would. But it is a very portable high-performance computer. You cannot make a very portable high-performance computer with 32Gb RAM at the moment. You can make a computer that is heavy and has low battery life with 32Gb RAM, but Apple doesn't make those. So you'll either have to wait or get something else.

Apple doesn't make gaming laptops, they don't make heavy laptops, they don't make devices with low battery life. I don't get how people are somehow surprised at this.

[doublepost=1478887012][/doublepost]

YES, I did. I worked with APPLE SHAKE on a MacBook pro doing 2k DPX film scans from 35mm Negative. Rendered out to DPX and used ARRI laser scanner to burn back to celluloid.
This is a fact. It was for a major motion picture in a theatre.

I keep saying this:

Fact 1: For most people, this is the best compromise that could've been made. Every other decision would made that compromise different: better for some, worse for others. This is most likely the best compromise for the majority of people.
Fact 2: For some people, it is not good enough. That doesn't change fact 1.

A lot of you keep saying, basically:

But I need more. My answer - see fact 1.


Can we drop it now?

 

[jjjoseph]

How is it possible that you guys just don't understand. They CAN'T give you a CTO option without making the thing into a laptop that is against their core design principles. Even with a thicker design, it would still have a lousy battery. That is not what Apple stands for - it would damage their brand and loose customers.

If they could put 32Gb RAM in this model - they would. But it is a very portable high-performance computer. You cannot make a very portable high-performance computer with 32Gb RAM at the moment. You can make a computer that is heavy and has low battery life with 32Gb RAM, but Apple doesn't make those. So you'll either have to wait or get something else.

Apple doesn't make gaming laptops, they don't make heavy laptops, they don't make devices with low battery life. I don't get how people are somehow surprised at this.
[doublepost=1478887012][/doublepost]

That is great. But you are in a really, really small minority. Do you really expect Apple to compromise the quality for a vast majority just so that you could make blockbusters on their laptop?
[doublepost=1478887171][/doublepost]I keep saying this:

Fact 1: For most people, this is the best compromise that could've been made. Every other decision would made that compromise different: better for some, worse for others. This is most likely the best compromise for the majority of people.
Fact 2: For some people, it is not good enough. That doesn't change fact 1.

A lot of you keep saying, basically:

But I need more. My answer - see fact 1.


Can we drop it now?

No we can't You started the thread, how much more proof do you need Apple doesn't make professional laptops anymore.

 

[aevan]

No we can't You started the thread, how much more proof do you need Apple doesn't make professional laptops anymore.

Well, you can start with at least one good proof. All I saw were specific usage cases where this professional laptop is not suited to specific needs.

 

[zhenya]

No we can't You started the thread, how much more proof do you need Apple doesn't make professional laptops anymore.

No, Apple doesn't make workstation replacement laptops. They never have.

 

[jjjoseph]

Well, you can start with at least one good proof. All I saw were specific usage cases where this professional laptop is not suited to specific needs.

If I did professional work on a laptop in the past, means that I should be able to in the future, which isn't what happened with Apple. I just don't think you do or have done professional work, so 16gb is fine for you.
[doublepost=1478887670][/doublepost]

No, Apple doesn't make workstation replacement laptops. They never have.

My 17" MacBook pro with the Extra GPU was a workstation replacement. I'm not sure what your talking about.

 

[aevan]

If I did professional work on a laptop in the past, means that I should be able to in the future, which isn't what happened with Apple. I just don't think you do or have done professional work, so 16gb is fine for you.

Oh, so it's YOUR work that is a measurement of what is professional work and what isn't? Is that it? Seriously?

Let's turn it around. Why don't you show me what is a professional laptop to you.

I'm sure I'll find you reasons why it sucks for my profession. And since you follow the logic "if it sucks for my profession, it's not professional" - that must mean I can do the same. Right? It's only fair.

This will probably leave us with 0 professional laptops in existence, but hey, let's see where it takes us.

 

[jjjoseph]

Oh, so it's YOUR work that is a measurement of what is professional work and what isn't? Is that it? Seriously?

Let's turn it around. Why don't you show me what is a professional laptop to you.

I'm sure I'll find you reasons why it sucks for my profession. And since you follow the logic "if it sucks for my profession, it's not professional" - that must mean I can do the same. Right? It's only fair.

This will probably leave us with 0 professional laptops in existence, but hey, let's see where it takes us.

I'm stuck on OS X, I'm waiting for Apple to release one.

 

[aevan]

I'm stuck on OS X, I'm waiting for Apple to release one.

They have. To paraphrase yourself: I just don't think you do or have done professional work, so heavy, low battery life is fine for you.

 

[zhenya]

My 17" MacBook pro with the Extra GPU was a workstation replacement. I'm not sure what your talking about.

The 17" model was still built with the same thin and (comparatively, for the time) light design ethos that Apple uses today. The entire reason the 17" model was discontinued was that Apple was able to fit the same parts in the 15" retina model, including a higher resolution screen than the 17" model had.

Even back in 2012 the review sites were half hoping that Apple would have kept the 17" model around if just to extend it to the kind of workstation replacement you are still wishing for today.

 

[jjjoseph]

They have. To paraphrase yourself: I just don't think you do or have done professional work, so heavy, low battery life is fine for you.

Good one... Well thought out and great execution.. Enjoy your laptop. Some people can afford to pay $3400 for a low spec laptop, and Im glad you can.
[doublepost=1478888425][/doublepost]

The 17" model was still built with the same thin and (comparatively, for the time) light design ethos that Apple uses today. The entire reason the 17" model was discontinued was that Apple was able to fit the same parts in the 15" retina model, including a higher resolution screen than the 17" model had.

You said that Apple didn't make workstation replacements, and I said you where wrong, the 17" was that replacement. I care not for why Apple doesn't make it anymore.

 

[dyn]

Ok so when I have a lot of apps open and havent rebooted in a while, and it begins to lag while the memory pressure number increases, this doesn't mean I need more ram? I guess it can't mean that. Nobody could possible need something that apple doesn't make!

Like I said, if the memory pressure graph is showing you something that is red then you have memory issues, with yellow you may or may not have them and with green there are no issues. Thus if the memory pressure is green and your machine lags there is very little chance you are going to solve the lagging by upgrading the memory. In that situation you need to look further and check the other components as well.

A laptop with an i7 should be able to have 32GB of RAM. I think the point is that if people want 32GB of RAM let them have it!!

My point was that just because you need it and some others do doesn't mean that it is mandatory that manufacturers offer notebooks with 32GB. In this case it is a perfectly sound technical limitation which is solved with the next Intel CPU. Instead of whining about this notebook not supporting 32GB you could also be patient and wait for the next version that does support it. More so as this applies to all of the OEMs, not just Apple.

The article the OP links to just wants to point out how silly most of the "I need XX GB of memory" posts really are. You can do an awful lot with just 16GB of memory but not everything. It's a very good reminder of how to look at what is possible instead of only focusing on what's not possible. You get a lot more done and are a lot more happier when you look at what's possible. That's the main thing here: stop being negative and start being positive.

So give them CTO option and the whole problem is sorted for everyone.

You are complaining to the wrong company here. Apple does not design nor manufacture the CPU that goes into the MBP, Intel does. The limit of 16GB in this machine is a technical one and the fact that Apple does not use Kaby Lake is also a technical one: the CPUs required for this MBP are not available in Kaby Lake just yet, they are currently only available in the previous gen. Since you can't give people an option that doesn't exist you have to go with the one that does exist and unfortunately for you, that means no more than 16GB of memory. You are oversimplifying the situation here.

My 17" MacBook pro with the Extra GPU was a workstation replacement. I'm not sure what your talking about.

That's the entire problem here: you not knowing. Apple has never made professional laptops or notebooks for that matter as they don't use professional hardware like Xeon processors and ECC memory in them. If you are going to go the "professional" route then do it properly! That's what everybody else that actually make workstation replacements does. You won't find any Core i processor in those.

 

[OS X Dude]

well, for that I have a supercomputer that has 4TB of RAM 😉

But does it come in Rose Gold?

 

[jjjoseph]

Like I said, if the memory pressure graph is showing you something that is red then you have memory issues, with yellow you may or may not have them and with green there are no issues. Thus if the memory pressure is green and your machine lags there is very little chance you are going to solve the lagging by upgrading the memory. In that situation you need to look further and check the other components as well.


My point was that just because you need it and some others do doesn't mean that it is mandatory that manufacturers offer notebooks with 32GB. In this case it is a perfectly sound technical limitation which is solved with the next Intel CPU. Instead of whining about this notebook not supporting 32GB you could also be patient and wait for the next version that does support it. More so as this applies to all of the OEMs, not just Apple.

The article the OP links to just wants to point out how silly most of the "I need XX GB of memory" posts really are. You can do an awful lot with just 16GB of memory but not everything. It's a very good reminder of how to look at what is possible instead of only focusing on what's not possible. You get a lot more done and are a lot more happier when you look at what's possible. That's the main thing here: stop being negative and start being positive.


You are complaining to the wrong company here. Apple does not design nor manufacture the CPU that goes into the MBP, Intel does. The limit of 16GB in this machine is a technical one and the fact that Apple does not use Kaby Lake is also a technical one: the CPUs required for this MBP are not available in Kaby Lake just yet, they are currently only available in the previous gen. Since you can't give people an option that doesn't exist you have to go with the one that does exist and unfortunately for you, that means no more than 16GB of memory. You are oversimplifying the situation here.


That's the entire problem here: you not knowing. Apple has never made professional laptops or notebooks for that matter as they don't use professional hardware like Xeon processors and ECC memory in them. If you are going to go the "professional" route then do it properly! That's what everybody else that actually make workstation replacements does. You won't find any Core i processor in those.

Thanks for the pep talk? Problem is you just POO POO POOd my industry! The thing is I have been doing TV, FILM and COMMERCIAL post production since 1999, It got started on the Blue and White G3, but somehow your telling me I didn't?

Maybe this is all a bad dream in DUTCH, so your saying I haven't been a PRO?
Its so confusing.. Maybe I am in the Matrix, or maybe I'm outside of the Matrix..
But thanks for letting me know I haven't been working Professionally for 17 years on Apple Products, thats a sigh of relief.

 

[lobo1978]

It's good to see that every single "problem" so many people freaked about just after revealing the new MacBook Pro has been deconstructed. It was just social network-driven mass hysteria - fueled by major tech portals, youtubers and apple competitors trying to make money (too).

Lesson learned - Next time people, just use your common sense - don't follow the sheep herd.

Yeah right... they will not listen 😛

 

[dyn]

Thanks for the pep talk? Problem is you just POO POO POOd my industry! The thing is I have been doing TV, FILM and COMMERCIAL post production since 1999, on the Blue and White G3, but somehow your telling me I didn't?

Maybe this is all a bad dream in DUTCH, so your saying I haven't been a PRO?

No, just saying you don't know your stuff and this discussion is simply way above your head. Performance isn't the only thing that matters for professionals, reliability is another thing and in most cases this is even more important than performance. All of your colleagues with the big rigs are using high performance and high reliable hardware which means stuff like Xeon and ECC. Just look up what a workstation really is.

 

[jjjoseph]

No, just saying you don't know your stuff and this discussion is simply way above your head. Performance isn't the only thing that matters for professionals, reliability is another thing and in most cases this is even more important than performance. All of your colleagues with the big rigs are using high performance and high reliable hardware which means stuff like Xeon and ECC. Just look up what a workstation really is.

Your going to have to enlighten me, I have no idea what a work station is. Ive never worked at companies that have workstations. Is a SGI ONXY a workstation? I used to work on one of those before I started my own post production company... but I have no idea what Im talking about, so i'm glad your here to enlighten me.

 

[BarracksSi]

That's one ugly machine! Looks like a Cylon and Kitt had a head on collision with the 1980s.

Hmm. Since you put it that way, now I want one. 😉

 

[BarracksSi]

Let's turn it around. Why don't you show me what is a professional laptop to you.

My new pro laptop (literally picked it up this week from the property manager) is a… lessee here… Dell Latitude of unknown vintage (out of warranty, according to one of the inventory stickers on the lid) with a fresh install of Windows 10 and a chip card reader.

No chip card reader in the MBP? Friggin' USELESS to me. ;-)

 

[aevan]

My new pro laptop (literally picked it up this week from the property manager) is a… lessee here… Dell Latitude of unknown vintage (out of warranty, according to one of the inventory stickers on the lid) with a fresh install of Windows 10 and a chip card reader.

No chip card reader in the MBP? Friggin' USELESS to me. ;-)

Ok, let's see if it's "pro". Current Dell Latitude laptops don't come with quad-core chips which I need for Zbrush. Using Macrumors forum logic: since I can't use it for MY work, it's not a Pro laptop.

Next?

 

[dyn]

Chip card reader? You mean those poorly supported finicky things you put some plastic card in? Those are an absolute horror to support. Glad I don't have to work with those 😀

 

[BeefCake 15]

Ok, let's see if it's "pro". Current Dell Latitude laptops don't come with quad-core chips which I need for Zbrush. Using Macrumors forum logic: since I can't use it for MY work, it's not a Pro laptop.

Next?

Dell XPS 13/15...please post all you got on that damn thing, no mercy!

 

[aevan]

Dell XPS 13/15...please post all you got on that damn thing, no mercy!

Autonomy is inadequate for my pro needs outside the studio. When equipped with a 4K screen (which is a requirement, really), the XPS 15 (13" is not good enough for my illustration work so the 13" is not pro by default) only has 6h battery life, which means it probably drops to 2h in Photoshop which is unacceptable. The 4K variant also has around 280 nits brightness which would prevent me from working on illustrations in bright rooms or outside (compared to MacBook Pros 500 nits). Also, now that P3 has arrived on laptops, I can't consider one without it.

As before, using MacRumors pro-defining logic: since it doesn't suit MY needs - not a pro laptop. Next? 🙂

 

[BeefCake 15]

Autonomy is inadequate for my pro needs outside the studio. When equipped with a 4K screen (which is a requirement, really), the XPS 15 (13" is not enough for illustration work so the 13" is not pro by default) only has 6h battery life, which means it probably drops to 2h in Photoshop which is unacceptable. The 4K variant also has around 280 nits brightness which would prevent me from working on illustrations in bright rooms or outside (compared to MacBook Pros 500 nits). Also, now that P3 has arrived on laptops, I can't consider one without it.

As before, using MacRumors pro-defining logic: since it doesn't suit MY needs - not a pro laptop. Next? 🙂

Thanks that's a good start 🙂.

Next: Surface Pro latest version with bells whistles and a bag of chips! (Please imagine a nosy M$ store dude getting all into your conversations as you write your response) 😉