Can we talk about the fanlessness

[DanneP]

Am I the only one who hates that Apple removed the fans on the MacBook Airs when they transitioned to Apple Silicon?

How could any one see it as a "feature" having no active cooling at all, what is the good in that? I only feel that people has been tricked into thinking that this is a good feature.

I don't like computers that makes unnecessary noise, sure, but even with our 2015 Air noise isn't really a problem (even though it has an old Intel processor). During light work you never hear the fan. Imagine it having a M{1,2,3}, the computer would handle much heavier work before you would notice the fan.

To me, the real reasons for Apple to remove the fan and market it as a feature are (1) forcing people to buy more than what they need (MacBook Pro) and (2) save 1 or 2 bucks in the manufacturing of these laptops.

Of course no. 1 is more important to Apple.

What do you think?

 

[BeatCrazy]

I think you misinterpret the design intention of the product.

Apple didn't omit the fan(s) in a MacBook Air to "save 1 or 2 bucks", they did it because A) it would add size/weight/bulk in a very thin design and B) the target audience of the Air will rarely push the machine that would benefit from active cooling under sustained loads.

 

[DanneP]

I think you misinterpret the design intention of the product.

Apple didn't omit the fan(s) in a MacBook Air to "save 1 or 2 bucks", they did it because A) it would add size/weight/bulk in a very thin design and B) the target audience of the Air will rarely push the machine that would benefit from active cooling under sustained loads.

A) How could the Air with Intel CPU:s have a fan if it really was a space limitation? The M1 board is a lot smaller than the board in a Air with Intel CPU, given that they share the same chassis and battery size, there really shouldn't be a problem fitting a fan inside a M1 Air.

Okay, no Intel CPU has been in the current iteration of the Air, but the 12-inch MacBook had a fan and it was even smaller and lighter than the M{2,3}.

I really don't think space is the issue here.

B) Sure, most won't benefit from it. Most won't benefit from a lot of things in a modern computer. But it would really make a difference for some, and that is why think Apples is gladly keeping a fan out of the Air.

 

[BeatCrazy]

A) How could the Air with Intel CPU:s have a fan if it really was a space limitation? The M1 board is a lot smaller than the board in a Air with Intel CPU, given that they share the same chassis and battery size, there really shouldn't be a problem fitting a fan inside a M1 Air.

Okay, no Intel CPU has been in the current iteration of the Air, but the 12-inch MacBook had a fan and it was even smaller and lighter than the M{2,3}.

I really don't think space is the issue here.

B) Sure, most won't benefit from it. Most won't benefit from a lot of things in a modern computer. But it would really make a difference for some, and that is why think Apples is gladly keeping a fan out of the Air.

We know the M1 Air shared the chassis with the Intel version for cost/production savings.. now that we have bespoke M2/M3 Airs, they are thinner, and as such, no room (or need) for a fan.

The 12" retina MacBook did not have a fan!

If you really need the difference a fan will make, either do the thermal pad mod, or buy the base M3 14" Pro.

Apple has got you covered The rest (99%) of the Air users really don't need as it only adds size and complexity.

 

[joeblow7777]

It certainly wasn't a major factor, but being fanless is one of the features that attracted me to the M3 MBA (my first Mac ever). Nothing I do is really going to warm up this computer, so being extra light, thin, completely silent, and having one less mechanical component that collects dust and isn't easily cleanable is a plus to me.

If you have a workflow that makes you worry about the thermals of your computer, you're probably not the type of user that an MBA is intended for. Complaining that an MBA doesn't have a fan is like complaining that a motorcycle doesn't have trunk space.

 

[chrfr]

A) How could the Air with Intel CPU:s have a fan if it really was a space limitation? The M1 board is a lot smaller than the board in a Air with Intel CPU, given that they share the same chassis and battery size, there really shouldn't be a problem fitting a fan inside a M1 Air.

I buy a lot of Airs for work. I haven't met a user who gets one who isn't happy it doesn't have a fan. For people who need active cooling, there are other models available.

 

[za9ra22]

I think this is just one of those things where some apply old technology thinking to new technology developments. The reason that Intel-based systems needed a fan was because they ran a lot hotter from consuming a lot more power, and the CPU load/heat curve was much steeper. A fan was needed to control that heat escalation at a much earlier point in the level of demand.

Apple silicon simply demands less power - one of its really major benefits - and so the CPU load/heat curve is much flatter. Since the system doesn't get as hot, the passive cooling of the laptop body can deal with the greatest propensity to heat up.

It has absolutely nothing at all to do with cost savings, any more than Porsche using air-cooled engines has ever been about cost savings. It's about good design solutions to engineering problems.

 

[DanneP]

We know the M1 Air shared the chassis with the Intel version for cost/production savings.. now that we have bespoke M2/M3 Airs, they are thinner, and as such, no room (or need) for a fan.

The 12" retina MacBook did not have a fan!

If you really need the difference a fan will make, either do the thermal pad mod, or buy the base M3 14" Pro.

Apple has got you covered The rest (99%) of the Air users really don't need as it only adds size and complexity.

Ok! Didn't know the 12-inch had passive cooling, ut must've been heavily affected by throttling

But last part is what I mean, of course you can buy a laptop with a fan, Apple are so kind to offer you that, but for a price that is next level.

It certainly wasn't a major factor, but being fanless is one of the features that attracted me to the M3 MBA (my first Mac ever). Nothing I do is really going to warm up this computer, so being extra light, thin, completely silent, and having one less mechanical component that collects dust and isn't easily cleanable is a plus to me.

If you have a workflow that makes you worry about the thermals of your computer, you're probably not the type of user that an MBA is intended for. Complaining that an MBA doesn't have a fan is like complaining that a motorcycle doesn't have trunk space.

Yeah, I completely understand you if you never do anything that pushes the CPU or GPU. Of course the laptop will be nice and cool

And no, that analogy is just silly. It's not like the laptop would cost 1000 bucks more or be twice the size if there was a small fan inside. A more precise analogy would be that you buy a "lightweight" motorcycle which can only be driven short distances since the manufacturer has made it "radiator free". It's a perfectly capable bike but since the manufacturer want you to pay for their more expensive bikes, they have decided to hamper it.

I buy a lot of Airs for work. I haven't met a user who gets one who isn't happy it doesn't have a fan. For people who need active cooling, there are other models available.

Sure, no argument there. Would they be unhappy if it had a fan?

I think this is just one of those things where some apply old technology thinking to new technology developments. The reason that Intel-based systems needed a fan was because they ran a lot hotter from consuming a lot more power, and the CPU load/heat curve was much steeper. A fan was needed to control that heat escalation at a much earlier point in the level of demand.

Apple silicon simply demands less power - one of its really major benefits - and so the CPU load/heat curve is much flatter. Since the system doesn't get as hot, the passive cooling of the laptop body can deal with the greatest propensity to heat up.

It has absolutely nothing at all to do with cost savings, any more than Porsche using air-cooled engines has ever been about cost savings. It's about good design solutions to engineering problems.

It is not good design if heat lowers the performance of the device. Even the M1 Air throttled heavily under load, especially with high GPU usage. And it gets so hot that it is not comfortable to touch.

The performance hit is even bigger with the M2 and M3.

 

[BeatCrazy]

It is not good design if heat lowers the performance of the device. Even the M1 Air throttled heavily under load, especially with high GPU usage. And it gets so hot that it is not comfortable to touch.

The performance hit is even bigger with the M2 and M3.

It's a fine design... it meets the target audience and price point.

If you're doing things that regularly stress/push a MacBook Air to thermal throttling, you've bought the wrong laptop.

 

[za9ra22]

It is not good design if heat lowers the performance of the device. Even the M1 Air throttled heavily under load, especially with high GPU usage. And it gets so hot that it is not comfortable to touch.

The performance hit is even bigger with the M2 and M3.

I have an M1 Air, it has never throttled in almost 4 years of daily use. I have an M3 Air, it too has never throttled. Both get warm under load, neither gets hot.

Throttling is nothing new, and systems have been doing it for years so the thermal profile of CPUs, power demand and load are really well known by system engineers. Which means I'd put my money on the designers of these systems to have a bit of a clue what they're doing, rather than someone who doesn't.

By the way, you asked what we think... you're getting those thoughts, even if you don't like them.

 

[AlixSPQR]

It is ironic to have the word Air in a fanless design, though.

 

[za9ra22]

Better than the MacBook Wind, I suppose.

 

[Queen6]

If you need active cooling buy the MBP as they are designed for sustained heavy use, even the base model. If you dont push the notebooks hard you'll never see the difference with the Air. If you do continuously push the Air to it's limits you've bought the wrong product simple as that...

Q-6

 

[zorinlynx]

I absolutely LOVE the fanless design. It means the machine can be sealed a lot better do that dust doesn't get in. It never makes noise. It will be more reliable in the long run without mechanical components. And the truth is, Apple Silicon is so efficient it rarely needs a fan.

I have a 14" M1 Macbook Pro that work issued me. The fans rarely ever come on during normal use. The only thing I've done that makes them kick in are long CPU/GPU bound processes like video encodes. If this were a fanless Macbook Air, I likely wouldn't notice the lack of fans 95% of the time, and the 5% of the time I did, it would just mean the thing I'm doing would take a little longer.

I'm docked to a Studio Display right now, lid open so two displays active, doing about ten different things at once, both fans...

0 RPM.

Apple Silicon is absolutely groundbreaking stuff, and I'm still on the first generation! If work hadn't bought me this MBP I'd have the Air as it would do pretty much everything this does for a lot less money.

 

[Sami13496]

I think Air is futuristic because it doesn’t have fans and other mechanical parts spinning.

 

[August West]

I love the fanless design. Works perfectly for my sofa dwelling MBA that never really gets stressed. If I needed something to actually do heavy lifting I'd have purchased a MBP or use my mini that has a fan (that never goes above 17000 rpm it seems). Sounds like the OP should have chosen a MBP or maybe they just like to whine.

 

[TechnoMonk]

Apple did the right thing by going fan less on MBA line with efficient Apple silicon M chips. Intel chips were hot and throttled too much.

 

[TechnoMonk]

If you need active cooling buy the MBP as they are designed for sustained heavy use, even the base model. If you dont push the notebooks hard you'll never see the difference with the Air. If you do continuously push the Air to it's limits you've bought the wrong product simple as that...

Q-6

This. Evaluate and test your products with in return window. If it isn’t the right product, send it back.

 

[TechnoMonk]

A) How could the Air with Intel CPU:s have a fan if it really was a space limitation? The M1 board is a lot smaller than the board in a Air with Intel CPU, given that they share the same chassis and battery size, there really shouldn't be a problem fitting a fan inside a M1 Air.

Okay, no Intel CPU has been in the current iteration of the Air, but the 12-inch MacBook had a fan and it was even smaller and lighter than the M{2,3}.

I really don't think space is the issue here.

B) Sure, most won't benefit from it. Most won't benefit from a lot of things in a modern computer. But it would really make a difference for some, and that is why think Apples is gladly keeping a fan out of the Air.

Intel sucked with a fan. My 16 inch MBP 2019 was the worst mac I ever owned. Ran too hot, too loud with fans going off like a jet. Throttled too much, I usually upgrade in 5 years but couldn’t wait to get rid of that junk intel MBP. My M1 Max runs warm with intense stuff, barely hear the fan running. If you need to support sustained load, buy a MBP.

 

[wave84]

This feels like a troll. The amount of ridiculous topics lately is kinda wild.

 

[antiprotest]

Even if all things equal, I would choose the Air over the Pro just because Air doesn't have a fan.

 

[Thisismattwade]

I love my base M1 MBA. I just bought it at Walmart - $699 was too hard to resist! I use an XPS 13 for work. It's a pretty good laptop, but it gets HOT and it's LOUD! I love how quiet my MBA is.

 

[Siliconguy]

Am I the only one who hates that Apple removed the fans on the MacBook Airs when they transitioned to Apple Silicon?

Yes.
Another easy question this morning. I do appreciate it.

It's not like the chip is thermally throttling all the time. It's really rare for me, only while compressing a video in a warm room (80 F) have I seen it happen. Right now the aluminum case of this Air is downright cold even through my jeans.

 

[G5isAlive]

Design theory 101, don't overly complicate a design by adding unnecessary features.

Disadvantages of a fan:
1) Decreases structural integrity (you need holes in the design for directed vents)
2) Sucks in dust. A large point of failure of computers is dust on components, which ironically causes increase in temperature due to insulating effects. Increases maintenance cost.
3) Makes noise. Especially small high rpm fans emit in high frequencies that some people find really frustrating.
4) Another point of mechanical failure amplified by the fact it's a moving part. What price does this add to maintenance?
5) takes space including a minimum thickness that adds to a design.
EDIT: 6) draws power on a design maximized for battery life.

Advantages of a fan:
1) can partially overcome bad thermal designs by providing active cooling, or at least until it either a) breaks down because its a mechanical part, or b) pulls in too much dust.

Question is, why would you have a fan if you don't need one?!

For all those reasons, I really LOVE that my MBA 15 doesn't have a fan. I never have to worry about it being distracting. And it's why I use my MBA 15 preferably over my MBP M3 Max. If I don't need the power, I appreciate the weight and silence.

Sorry, it seems you don't like the fact that if you need more, you have to pay more. Designing in a fan imposes constraints in minimum width, and structural issues, not to mention putting in a reliable mechanical part. Costs money. You want it, pay for it, but don't pass on the cost to those that don't need or want it.

No free lunches at Apple.

 

[raythompsontn]

Throttling is nothing new, and systems have been doing it for years so the thermal profile of CPUs, power demand and load are really well known by system engineers.

My desktop, Intel I9, with water cooling, will sometimes throttle under a heavy load. Producing 4K videos with several track overlays, for an extended period, will drive the CPU temperature close to 100C and the system will start throttling. The fluid pump is maxed out on speed as are the radiator fans. Throttling is no big deal. It does not happen that often.

My M2 air has throttled under heavy load. In this case exporting a thousand raw images to JPG with multiple adjustments per image. The bottom of the case gets somewhat warm, doing what the case is supposed to do. Again, this does not happen often. I suspect a PRO machine would activate the fans, maybe even throttle. The PRO may be a couple of minutes faster but to me that is trivial.