Can you list the current issues with the rMBP?

[Davidud]

Hello, I'm new to this forum and relatively new to Macs. I've used iMacs a lot in school, but I've never actually owned one or really familiarized myself with one.

The thing is I'm planning on buying a Macbook pro, my first mac ever. At first I thought I'd skip the retina screen and just go for the high-res, since the rest of the components (except 8gb ram instead of 16) will be the same. My reason for skipping the retina would be of all the problems people seem to have. You guys probably know what I'm talking about, all the stuff that seems to be mentioned everywhere; scroll lag, heat problems, burn in etc.

I did a couple of google searches though, and there aren't THAT many results for lag issues with the rMBP in the last month.

That's why I made this thread, I want to hear from you, who actually own Macbooks- What's the current situation? Is the scroll-lag fixed? Do the fans still stop working sometimes? Are the burn in issues with the screen completely fixed? or are all of these lies or extremely rare cases? I emailed the site I plan to buy from but they don't seem to know whether it's a Samsung or LG screen.


My other concern is that there'll probably be a new Macbook release soon as well. It's rumored to not have a dedicated gfxcard, yes? Since I'll be gaming quite a bit on my spare time (primary use for the computer will be audio engineering/music production and general school stuff.) I want a graphics card that can handle games in decent settings, can the Haswell or whatever live up to that, the same way the 650m does?

I still probably want the high-res Macbook most at the moment though, it feels like a stable choice, with as little issues as possible. The thing that's keeping me away from just buying it is the ridiculous price difference. (Also not knowing if the retina is as bad as the internet makes it out to be.)

The high res I've been looking at:
2.6ghz
8gb RAM
500gb hdd (I have a spare ssd lying around here so I'll just swap them out)
650m 1gb

And one of the retinas I've been looking at: (I would like 16gb ram but it's soooooo damn expensive.)
2.6ghz
8gb RAM
512gb SSD
650m 1gb


Believe it or not, the retina one is around $100 cheaper than the high res one. Which makes me want the retina of course, 512gb ssd, thinner and a really sexy screen, CHEAPER? Then it's only all the aforementioned issues that keeps me from buying it, that I don't know even exist anymore.

But I've also seen a lot of people here saying that all those issues people talk about are fake to justify them not buying a rMacbook now. No offense, but can't it be the other way around? That people who own the rMBP say it's flawless because they got one for $3k and choose to ignore the issues? (Just trying to find an as objective viewpoint as possible(sorry if I sound a bit like a dick), and wouldn't want to get off on the wrong foot with anyone.)

What would you do? University starts in mid-august so I'll be moving then, though I don't think I'll REALLY need it the first couple of weeks. Refurbished is not an option. But if it's really uncertain when the haswell will be released, if it's being released after september/october I might as well get one now.


TL;DR can you list the current problems the retina macbook pro has? the 15" Model. Is the lag fixed? Heat problems?


Regards,
David U

 

[luffytubby]

Hello, I'm new to this forum and relatively new to Macs. I've used iMacs a lot in school, but I've never actually owned one or really familiarized myself with one.

The thing is I'm planning on buying a Macbook pro, my first mac ever. At first I thought I'd skip the retina screen and just go for the high-res, since the rest of the components (except 8gb ram instead of 16) will be the same. My reason for skipping the retina would be of all the problems people seem to have. You guys probably know what I'm talking about, all the stuff that seems to be mentioned everywhere; scroll lag, heat problems, burn in etc.

I did a couple of google searches though, and there aren't THAT many results for lag issues with the rMBP in the last month.

That's why I made this thread, I want to hear from you, who actually own Macbooks- What's the current situation? Is the scroll-lag fixed? Do the fans still stop working sometimes? Are the burn in issues with the screen completely fixed? or are all of these lies or extremely rare cases? I emailed the site I plan to buy from but they don't seem to know whether it's a Samsung or LG screen.


My other concern is that there'll probably be a new Macbook release soon as well. It's rumored to not have a dedicated gfxcard, yes? Since I'll be gaming quite a bit on my spare time (primary use for the computer will be audio engineering/music production and general school stuff.) I want a graphics card that can handle games in decent settings, can the Haswell or whatever live up to that, the same way the 650m does?

I still probably want the high-res Macbook most at the moment though, it feels like a stable choice, with as little issues as possible. The thing that's keeping me away from just buying it is the ridiculous price difference. (Also not knowing if the retina is as bad as the internet makes it out to be.)

The high res I've been looking at:
2.6ghz
8gb RAM
500gb hdd (I have a spare ssd lying around here so I'll just swap them out)
650m 1gb

And one of the retinas I've been looking at: (I would like 16gb ram but it's soooooo damn expensive.)
2.6ghz
8gb RAM
512gb SSD
650m 1gb


Believe it or not, the retina one is around $100 cheaper than the high res one. Which makes me want the retina of course, 512gb ssd, thinner and a really sexy screen, CHEAPER? Then it's only all the aforementioned issues that keeps me from buying it, that I don't know even exist anymore.

But I've also seen a lot of people here saying that all those issues people talk about are fake to justify them not buying a rMacbook now. No offense, but can't it be the other way around? That people who own the rMBP say it's flawless because they got one for $3k and choose to ignore the issues? (Just trying to find an as objective viewpoint as possible(sorry if I sound a bit like a dick), and wouldn't want to get off on the wrong foot with anyone.)

What would you do? University starts in mid-august so I'll be moving then, though I don't think I'll REALLY need it the first couple of weeks. Refurbished is not an option. But if it's really uncertain when the haswell will be released, if it's being released after september/october I might as well get one now.


TL;DR can you list the current problems the retina macbook pro has? the 15" Model. Is the lag fixed? Heat problems?


Regards,
David U

Listen...

A vocal group of people shouting their issues is not a representation of how things actually are. Millions of people have these computers and have no problems, and thus don't come online to talk about it. People are heavily focused towards negativity, so it's more outstanding to see peoples issues.



The reality is that, all the Laptop manufactureres are dealing with a failure rate within 2 years of Laptop purchase of around 15-17%, and that's for the best in the industry(Apple, Asus, Sony). (Stats from report from 09 - google it)
So within 2 years of you buying your laptop computer, there is a 15% chance it will go bye-bye.


These machines are made from millions and millions different parts, and many of those are recycled or reused materials, causing chances for defects and problems during assembly. The reality is that, no matter what you buy, you got a real chance of something being wrong with it. It might be a small thing like a tiny scratch, a dead pixel or it might be bigger like higher idle temperatures, but I promise you, that you not suddenly be more safe by going with an older model. the risk is the same. The ivy and sandy models have/had their own problems. Same with penryn before it. Basically all of them have problems with heat, and a great deal of people will agree with the notion that doing gaming and execessive tasks strains the laptop excessively due to massive amounts of heats. That doesn't mean it affects everyone.

Some people abuse their Macs for years, with no problems, while others start out with downclocking and other nonsense. As such, heat has always been a problem with most Laptops, and particularly Apples, when seriously stressed.


My advice is to stop worrying about the chance of failure and instead, if you need a peace of mind, get apple care or some other deal that lets you know that if the thing breaks down you can easily replace it or have it fixed.



---

Secondly, this site is called Macrumors. Nobody here knows if there will be a dGPU in the next model or not. it's all speculations, so you will just have to take the plunge or do the waiting game like the rest of us.


Thirdly, Retina is not bad. Do not blame of lack of optimization on websites and OS lag deterriate from what is a breakthrough in display technology on a pro consumer device.
Retina is a entry product, much like Air was in 09, and such it comes with its challenges to adopt to a new technology. Now ULV processors are powerful, and MBA is basically the best value Mac for normal consumers. This was not the case when that product was introduced with its high price and weak timid performance.

 

[cbs20]

UI and a lot of scroll lag is fixed in Mavericks. Some websites will look bad and scroll bad but that's because the website hasn't been optimized for hi-res. From my experience, my retina runs at cooler temps than my previous cMBP, but it feels warmer around the keyboard keys because it's cooling the insides better (I assume).

 

[swerve147]

Make the decision easier for yourself. If you absolutely need or want 16GB there's only one choice, the cMBP (as you stated the 16GB rMBP is way too expensive).

Despite all the forum posts and actual real-world experience otherwise verifying that 8GB is more than enough for most people's needs, having soldered 8GB of RAM for 3-4 years might nag you in the short term because you didn't upgrade, and now you're stuck with it. It's human nature.

As for everything else, the best way to determine if these issues are going to bother you is by testing it yourself. Especially the scroll lag. There still is lag, but whether or not it bothers the user is subjective for the most part.

 

[washburn]

http://9to5mac.com/2013/03/20/macbook-pro-with-retina-display-problems-in-every-dimension/

 

[Davidud]

Listen...

A vocal group of people shouting their issues is not a representation of how things actually are. Millions of people have these computers and have no problems, and thus don't come online to talk about it. People are heavily focused towards negativity, so it's more outstanding to see peoples issues.



The reality is that, all the Laptop manufactureres are dealing with a failure rate within 2 years of Laptop purchase of around 15-17%, and that's for the best in the industry(Apple, Asus, Sony). (Stats from report from 09 - google it)
So within 2 years of you buying your laptop computer, there is a 15% chance it will go bye-bye.


These machines are made from millions and millions different parts, and many of those are recycled or reused materials, causing chances for defects and problems during assembly. The reality is that, no matter what you buy, you got a real chance of something being wrong with it. It might be a small thing like a tiny scratch, a dead pixel or it might be bigger like higher idle temperatures, but I promise you, that you not suddenly be more safe by going with an older model. the risk is the same. The ivy and sandy models have/had their own problems. Same with penryn before it. Basically all of them have problems with heat, and a great deal of people will agree with the notion that doing gaming and execessive tasks strains the laptop excessively due to massive amounts of heats. That doesn't mean it affects everyone.

Some people abuse their Macs for years, with no problems, while others start out with downclocking and other nonsense. As such, heat has always been a problem with most Laptops, and particularly Apples, when seriously stressed.


My advice is to stop worrying about the chance of failure and instead, if you need a peace of mind, get apple care or some other deal that lets you know that if the thing breaks down you can easily replace it or have it fixed.



---

Secondly, this site is called Macrumors. Nobody here knows if there will be a dGPU in the next model or not. it's all speculations, so you will just have to take the plunge or do the waiting game like the rest of us.


Thirdly, Retina is not bad. Do not blame of lack of optimization on websites and OS lag deterriate from what is a breakthrough in display technology on a pro consumer device.
Retina is a entry product, much like Air was in 09, and such it comes with its challenges to adopt to a new technology. Now ULV processors are powerful, and MBA is basically the best value Mac for normal consumers. This was not the case when that product was introduced with its high price and weak timid performance.

Thanks for your reply! You definately have a point, I suppose there are a couple of thousand happy customers per each unhappy customer.

Yeah, apple care protection plan might be a good idea, though we barely have any apple stores here so I'd have to mail it away probably if I get issues.


Of course noone here knows for sure if it's going to have a dedicated gfxcard or not, but it's rumored, and my question was more in general, to people who may have previous experience or something along those lines with the haswell in gaming. As I suppose it isn't exclusive to Apple.


A bit of miscommunication on the "retina is bad" part apparantly as I never said it was. I meant a lot of people on the internet makes it out to be bad, makes it look bad, and with retina I meant the rMBP in general, with all the aforementioned issues. As I mentioned in my post, I have no clue what is true and what is not since I don't own one and that's the reason I'm posting here, most of you guys probably do own one.

But since you mentioned it, OS lag is still present on the rMBP then?


Edit: Might as well answer the rest of your posts in the same one;

@cbs20 Good to hear it's been mostly fixed, so these sites that lag that aren't optimized, they wont lag when running a standard resolution then? like 1650x1050 or 1920x1080/1200?

@swerve147 I can't seem to find anywhere to upgrade the RAM to 16gb on the cMBP (and the specs on the sites I've been looking at says 8GB current and 8GB max :/

 

[jdevenberg]

In my opinion, the 15" is a perfectly fine machine that would be worth a purchase today.

The 13" is severely crippled by HD 4000 graphics and is not worth owning for anything over $1000 in my opinion.

 

[Davidud]

http://9to5mac.com/2013/03/20/macbook-pro-with-retina-display-problems-in-every-dimension/

One would think that they have fixed the major problems since march?

 

[klover]

I find the screen is way to sharp and color-accurate, the keyboard is too accurate and comfortable, and the laptop is way too light. Oh, and the battery life is too long.

 

[Count Blah]

If you plan to keep this thing more than 2 years, or you have any desire to do any VM work/play/testing, then I would highly suggest the 16Gigs if you are going rMBP.

 

[lagisibuk]

Listen...
A vocal group of people shouting their issues is not a representation of how things actually are. Millions of people have these computers and have no problems, and thus don't come online to talk about it. People are heavily focused towards negativity, so it's more outstanding to see peoples issues.
.

I like this, very very coool.

 

[Davidud]

If you plan to keep this thing more than 2 years, or you have any desire to do any VM work/play/testing, then I would highly suggest the 16Gigs if you are going rMBP.

Yeah, it's either going future-proof and getting a really good rMBP or getting a decent one (probably a couple of hundred dollars less than the ones i mentioned, maybe even used) to get me through university, then after that get a really good one.

The cheapest rMBP here with 16gb RAM (2.4ghz, 256gb) seems to be about $300 more than the one I mentioned before with 8gb ram and 512gb ssd. Just feels like too much money for a bit more RAM and a smaller ssd, but it's also a bit more future-proof, but so is getting the 512gb ssd, though not as important as I'll prolly get external drives anyway. I don't know. Damnit why does it have to be so hard to choose

If I'm going for a high-end rMBP maybe I should wait for the new release instead, though new hardware might mean more issues at release as well, hm.

 

[akdj]

I'm with Klover on this one. The rMBP is a laptop and then some. After two and half decades of owning and selling computers...I've never been so happy as I am with the rMBP. Mine's from 2012---going on 10 months old now.

I think what you'll find with Apple (BTW, Welcome to the community) is the post purchase support is second to none, regardless if you have an Apple store next door. Indeed...you can mail it in for support w/Apple Care, they'll even send you a box and label.

As far as 'lag'---I just don't think I've ever seen something as overblown when it comes to computing. There are poorly coded, over bloated sites on the web. Busy ones too---IE, FaceBook. However...it's not necessarily their fault (coders, designers)...as this is the infancy of HiDPI displays. It's not just laptops...smart phones, tablets...4k and TVs were the 'rage' this year @ CES (Thank the Lord, 3D in the rear view mirror for now ). Point being...we're young in these high rez display builds. LG/Samsung/Sony...and there are a couple other actual OEMs that are putting the panels together....they'll continue to refine their displays, the 'coders' and web designers will learn how to better optimize their sites with more pixels...operating systems (Windows 8 is having a LOT of issues with HiDPI right now...supposedly fixed quite well with 8.1) will also refine their implementation, whether relying on the GPU, CPU or a hybrid solution. As it sits, right now, today...IMHO, there just isn't a better option on the laptop market than the 15" rMBP. Sure to be even better with the Haswell update (I don't think they'll drop the discrete GPU yet); slight speed (CPU) bump, better iGPU, more efficient (Battery life)....and this will obviously go along with Mavericks and it's more mature implementation of Pixel doubling on the retina based display machines....which will also transfer to the 'older' 2012/early '13 models.

When it comes to the 'Classic' MBP...in comparison to other laptops on the market, it's about as mature a product can get. Easy to upgrade (SSD/HDD/OptiBay for both---RAM, even 'thermal paste' ), and definitely has stood the test of time...again, IMHO, when it comes to design aesthetics and it's 'look'. The latest models include USB3 and ThunderBolt...the rMBP doubles your T/B ports and adds HDMI and an SD card reader. When it comes to battery time, I think they're about equal...and they're only off by a pound. Design-wise though, as an owner of both (my classics are 17" models)...it seems to me the rMBP 'feels' lighter and more compact than the classic.

The internet is full of opinions. Lots of excellent information as well. However, the vocal majority of 'problem' posts tend to get the most visibility because those without issues tend to just enjoy their experience...no need to jump on the 'net and go on and on about something that doesn't need further explanation (just check out the reviews from respected sites like Anand and Ars and less respected like TechCrunch and/or Giz . They're all giving the machine high marks...including PC Magazine, a rag dedicated mainly to Windows hardware.

Honestly---I can't wait for the Haswell update. I'll be replacing my older 17" models with a pair of the new rMBPs (we use ours in the field...I'm self employed). I was really bummed when the 17s went the way of the dodo...not so much any longer. After using the 15" in 1920x1200 for the past (almost a) year...I don't miss the real estate at all. The text however, pictures...video, UN-Believable!!! I also have a 2011 MBA...another pretty high PPI machine, and the two side by side...almost like comparing the iPad 2 to the 3/4. Impossible NOT to see the difference....the color, the contrast, the 'whites'....the sharpness of the text, full 1080p video pixel for pixel 'inside' an optimized app that is using the rest of the real estate to 'pixel double' the UI, it's awesome. An amazing engineering AND software feat! And it'll only get better with time. Cool thing is, they (Apple) really DID get it right the first time out. Fast as hell, nearly 100% efficient RAM, excellent I/O options, great GPU (for it's time...it's now a year old)....and the display, just. plain. beautiful!

Again, welcome and best of luck trying to decide

J

 

[FrankB1191]

My wife and I bought a rMBP a few weeks ago, and I tested it for all the reported "problems" posted here and elsewhere: image retention, scroll lag on Facebook and The Verge, etc. I'm happy to report that I've not found a single issue, and I'm the type that tries.

Here's my take on internet complaints. People find something that they don't like, and post it on every website/forum/blog they can find. I am not a computer expert, but I am nearly a fly fishing expert. There's no shortage of people who buy an $800 rod, and then post a bunch of nonsense on every forum on the planet. If we would believe even the nightly news reports, most of us should have had Avian flu at least once in the past few years, but that's not the case.

All manufacturers have a mishap on the assembly line once in a while, and then it snowballs on the internet. There are some posts on this site in which the poster seems obsessed with a particular issue, even though it's not an issue for others. Life is short, so enjoy.

 

[swerve147]

@swerve147 I can't seem to find anywhere to upgrade the RAM to 16gb on the cMBP (and the specs on the sites I've been looking at says 8GB current and 8GB max :/

You can most definitely upgrade to 16GB. And for cheap too. Apple documentation says the Mac doesn't officially support 16GB, but many cMBP owners have already done it and benefitted from it (i.e. it's fully recognized by the Mac).

The general consensus is to save even more money, buy the base 4GB configuration from Apple, and an additional 16GB aftermarket. Then put away the 4GB sticks for safe keeping in case you need to bring it into Apple for warranty service.

 

[Davidud]

-snip-

Wow, that is one inspiring post Makes me want to get a rMBP immediately. Thanks by the way, I'm really looking forward to buying my first Mac, I honestly feel like I should've done it a long time ago

You can most definitely upgrade to 16GB. And for cheap too. Apple documentation says the Mac doesn't officially support 16GB, but many cMBP owners have already done it and benefitted from it (i.e. it's fully recognized by the Mac).

The general consensus is to save even more money, buy the base 4GB configuration from Apple, and an additional 16GB aftermarket. Then put away the 4GB sticks for safe keeping in case you need to bring it into Apple for warranty service.

Yeah, I know that it was possible before, I actually almost bought a macbook 2 years ago I think, but ended up with a pair of studio monitors instead. I just got unsure when most places said it's 8GB max now. But good to know that it's still possible! Might be a good thing to do, since I also have a 256gb corsair SSD lying around!

All manufacturers have a mishap on the assembly line once in a while, and then it snowballs on the internet. There are some posts on this site in which the poster seems obsessed with a particular issue, even though it's not an issue for others. Life is short, so enjoy.

Yeah, the best option is probably for me to go find a place where I can try out the rMBP for myself, since the internet tends to snowball issues, as you mentioned. I'm living kinda far from any good stores though. But it's good to hear that you didn't have any issues with your rMBP!



One more question has arisen though! I've been looking around and reading about the retina scaling process etc. it's not directly related to this thread but might as well just throw it out here.

So when I run it in "best for retina" mode, it'll look like 1440x900 but will render 2880x1800?

But if I want to run it in 1680x1050 it would render in 3360x2100, which would decrease performance? and even more in 1920x1200 mode, right? Since it renders it in such a high resolution I mean. This performance drop would probably not mean a lot when just browsing or doing other casual things, but what about when you're putting pressure on the hardware?

To put it in a more situational perspective, Lets say I'd like to play a game of Dota 2, and have the resolution in-game set to 1680x1050. Would the macbook automatically double all those pixels or scale the resolution etc, making it still render 3360x2100 (which should drastically drain performance in-game) or would it render it in 1680x1050 resulting in a "normal" resolution that would still look fine, but not be "retina" in-game?(which is fine by me) How would that work, since a resolution of 1680x1050 would look like 840x525 (because of the doubling?)

Would i need to set the resolution in-game to 3360x2100 to get the 1680x1050 effect?

This is just out of curiosity of course, all those articles explaining how it works makes my head spin. I need more practical examples to understand how it really works I think.

 

[nickandre21]

initially even these issues that people say they have were putting me of from buying the retina. But then i thought of apples after sales support and brought one. I have been a mac user since 2003 and i have had my trips to service not alot just few times. They repair and if not successful replace, if you give for one issue and on their tests they find another part may fail sometime soon they replace it. Get apple care any time during the first year.
But if you go in for a retina and would like to keep it for as long as possible you might want to consider the 16gb ram.

 

[Unhyper]

Stay away from Retina, I'm telling you. The clarity, the crispness... It's just amazing, I love reading text on that thing. My brother has a cMBP, I have a rMBP. I feel like I'm staring at a CRT now when I look at his screen... Feel like such a snob.

 

[nickandre21]

Stay away from Retina, I'm telling you. The clarity, the crispness... It's just amazing, I love reading text on that thing. My brother has a cMBP, I have a rMBP. I feel like I'm staring at a CRT now when I look at his screen... Feel like such a snob.

Have the exact same feeling my eyes however get watery the retina is of to the service and am stuck using my cMbp, miss the clarity and crispness of the display not to mention light weight.

 

[Davidud]

Have the exact same feeling my eyes however get watery the retina is of to the service and am stuck using my cMbp, miss the clarity and crispness of the display not to mention light weight.

Why is your rMBP in service?

 

[nickandre21]

Why is your rMBP in service?

have a ssd issue AHT gave me an error code. Here in India even in the 14 day period you can only get a replacement if there is an hardware issue only. I had to call customer care who gave me a case id, then i took it to a just opened service provider near by. The system passed their tests but still fails the inbuilt hardware test so their finding out. I seriously wish i was back in chicago. Would've got an on the spot replacement.
I however did try to see if i had any issues which people spoke of. No scroll lag, no heat issues, no retention or dead pixels i have the samsung screen with a yellow tint did a display calibration and its white as ever. The bottom plate had a clicking noise the AASP removed the bottom plate and reinstalled, they said its fine now.
I have two mac books at my place so i can use them as back ups to complete my work. Compared to other products and brands their after sales support is not even 5% of what apple's is

 

[FrankB1191]

Speaking of watery eyes, I saw a thread the other day about retina displays causing allergies, migraine headaches, blurred vision, etc....SERIOUSLY! If it wasn't on this site, it was on Apple's site. There were several people claiming to suffer from various physical ailments due to the Retina screen, and that's just further proof not to take everything you read too seriously.

I should mention that my typing has increased to 500 WPM with Retina, and I can see through walls now.

You can order a rMBP from places like Best Buy and Apple, and return it for a 100% refund if you don't like it. I have 3 Apple store within 45 minutes of my house(!!!!), and a Best Buy 4 miles away, so that makes life easy for me.

 

[gentlefury]

I have no issues and I use my MBP for visual effects for feature film and television, so I throw a lot at it daily and it runs like a champ!

 

[Davidud]

You can order a rMBP from places like Best Buy and Apple, and return it for a 100% refund if you don't like it. I have 3 Apple store within 45 minutes of my house(!!!!), and a Best Buy 4 miles away, so that makes life easy for me.

Unfortunately we don't have Best buy here. We only have 2 Apple stores, both really far away from me (I'd guess about a 6-7 hour drive at least)

I have no issues and I use my MBP for visual effects for feature film and television, so I throw a lot at it daily and it runs like a champ!

Good to hear, are the fans loud while under a lot of stress? Since I'll be recording a lot I hope they don't get too loud.

 

[entropi]

but where are the retina support?!?

...it's bit tedious though that so few of the audio-apps & plug ins isn't optimized for retina yet still! apple themselves didn't release a retina-optimized Logic Pro until more than a year after the rMBP was first available!

myself, I haven't got any real use for an optical drive anymore, so the drive on the cMBP 15" feels a bit unnecessary... my dream machine right now would be the cMBP Hi-Res BTO ANTIGLARE screen, with the rest of the rMBP's body - for the optimal performance & cooling - and with a screen thats shows the best of all audio apps old and new without fuzziness.... (but my four year old MBP17 AG with ssd keeps working really nice with all current audio apps for my needs so I guess I won't go the fuzzy retinaroute for at least a year still...)