Candor on the decline?

Deepdale

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May 4, 2005
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A man in his early 30s was speaking to an employee at Apple Soho yesterday and sought his views on a few of the issues surrounding the MBP, specifically the heat and noise that have been the subject of many postings here.

The employee responded by saying, "This is the first time I am hearing about any such concerns on the MacBook Pro. If that was the case, I am sure those of us who work in the Apple stores would have been aware of it by now."

Anybody else think that reply is disingenuous? I would not expect any company to have posters on the walls enumerating problems -- be they big or small -- with any product line they are selling, but acknowledging basic issues generally tends to be received better by the public than glossing over matters.
 

iPie

macrumors regular
Feb 21, 2006
132
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Milan, Italy
I agree completely.

In fact it is pissing me off so much that I am not going to get a MBP. I was leaning towards the mini but at half the price I can go out and get a PC. Since I have all the software I need already....

I Apple can improve their attitude and hardware then maybe I'll get a laptop next year.
 

Blue Velvet

Moderator emeritus
Jul 4, 2004
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Deepdale said:
Anybody else think that reply is disingenuous?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If the person wants to keep their job or has ambitions within an organisation and there's an official party line to toe from above, then you keep your mouth shut or give a carefully-calibrated answer such as the one provided by the employee.

In an ideal world, it wouldn't be so but sometimes the truth is an inconvenient luxury when the main business is shifting units. Since when was Apple a charity?
 

Deepdale

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Blue Velvet said:
Since when was Apple a charity?
One look at their pricing structure over the years of their existence and it is readily apparent that charity was hardly the guiding force.
 

iPie

macrumors regular
Feb 21, 2006
132
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Milan, Italy
Blue Velvet said:
Since when was Apple a charity?
True, true,

but they seem to view Apple users as donors.

Honesty has nothing to do with being a charity (but perhaps we have different world views).

I would happily pay a price premium to an honest company that gave me good quality products.

So where is apple today in that story?
 

juanm

macrumors 68000
May 1, 2006
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An idea would be to go to the same place two days later, and make another person (friend, girlfriend, relative...) ask the same employee about the whining and heat issues... If he says again "I've never ever heard of...", you can answer him "That's weird... because yesterday a friend of mine came and asked you about this issue..."

Better: Go each time with a whining MacBook Pro as a proof (it can be the same both times, as they seem to ignore the sound...)

Or beven better: spread the word and make a meeting of fully charged MBPs in the store, all whining at the same time! :D
 

generik

macrumors 601
Aug 5, 2005
4,116
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Minitrue
Juan Moro said:
An idea would be to go to the same place two days later, and make another person (friend, girlfriend, relative...) ask the same employee about the whining and heat issues... If he says again "I've never ever heard of...", you can answer him "That's weird... because yesterday a friend of mine came and asked you about this issue..."

Better: Go each time with a whining MacBook Pro as a proof (it can be the same both times, as they seem to ignore the sound...)

Or beven better: spread the word and make a meeting of fully charged MBPs in the store, all whining at the same time! :D
I really wonder how bad the whining issue is, but I suppose if 100 MBP customers can gather togther it'd generate quite a lot of buzz!
 

Deepdale

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iPie said:
I would happily pay a price premium to an honest company that gave me good quality products. So where is apple today in that story?
I also willingly pay more for selected items, and the reasonable expectation from customers is that the added cost translate into something measurable in the quality. And that means more than having the Apple logo displayed on the case.
 

EricChunky

macrumors regular
Feb 12, 2006
202
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London
that's not as bad as the London Regent Store.

The manager told me that my MBP is hot because i didn't tear off the plastic on the power adapter. :cool:
 

Deepdale

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EricChunky said:
The manager told me that my MBP is hot because i didn't tear off the plastic on the power adapter.
The answers just keep on improving. Why not simply settle on this ... "Apple is a very cool company, but you have to admit we do sell the hottest products."
 

Abstract

macrumors Penryn
Dec 27, 2002
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Location Location Location
Blue Velvet said:
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

If the person wants to keep their job or has ambitions within an organisation and there's an official party line to toe from above, then you keep your mouth shut or give a carefully-calibrated answer such as the one provided by the employee.

In an ideal world, it wouldn't be so but sometimes the truth is an inconvenient luxury when the main business is shifting units. Since when was Apple a charity?
I agree with Blue Velvet. He can't just say, "Yeah, the MBP has issues. I'd suggest you don't buy it and wait until it's all sorted, but hey, it's your money, dude." Maybe it was orders given to him since Apple had just fixed (or improved) the situation and had planned to just offer repairs or replacements instead. I don't know. All I know is that I can sort of understand why a company wouldn't tell you that their product is faulty. I'm sure if you were a store owner, you'd understand.
 
Deepdale said:
A man in his early 30s was speaking to an employee at Apple Soho yesterday and sought his views on a few of the issues surrounding the MBP, specifically the heat and noise that have been the subject of many postings here.

The employee responded by saying, "This is the first time I am hearing about any such concerns on the MacBook Pro. If that was the case, I am sure those of us who work in the Apple stores would have been aware of it by now."

Anybody else think that reply is disingenuous? I would not expect any company to have posters on the walls enumerating problems -- be they big or small -- with any product line they are selling, but acknowledging basic issues generally tends to be received better by the public than glossing over matters.
Here's the problem. Given the limited info it is not possible to determine whether the employee was acting independantly or according to either implicit or explcit instructions. Moreover, even assuming it was some sort of instruction it is also not possible to determine if those instructions came from the store manager or corporate.

My guess is that it was either the store manager or the employee acting independantly to boost sales. Mostly b/c Apple has too much to lose by a corporate denial. They can do basic algebra.

Corporate denial of legit claim = Class action law suit =
X% of total MBP sales * 30% of total retail value of effected consumers (a number I'm pulling from my experience as a corporate law clerk in the mid-nieties)+financial incentive to gain non-disclosure status for the payout + extraneous legal fees beyond the monthly retainer =
Way more money than the loss taken by replace & repair costs.

If they don't deny the charge they are MUCH MUCH less vulnerable to a lawsuit. Not admitting guilt isn't denial, it's not upright business practice but certainly legally safer.
 

Deepdale

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Boggle said:
Corporate denial of legit claim = Class action law suit = X% of total MBP sales * 30% of total retail value of effected consumers
It is tiime for me to watch good programs taped earlier this week ... I do not want to be here in the event some geometry and trigonometry references find a creative way into this thread.
 

Xeem

macrumors 6502a
Feb 2, 2005
902
9
Minnesota
It is true that sometimes one has to tiptoe around certain issues when your employer might hold you accountable, but I think that blatantly lying crosses the line. I would guess from the scope of the employee's denial (claiming that none of the Apple techies in the store knew about the problems) that his response was something all his own; you have to try to protect the reputation of certified "Mac Geniuses" as well as the reputation of the Macbook Pro, and the denial made by that worker would actually hurt the Geniuses. If it was a response dictated by Apple, it would be much less concrete (and still probably not very useful). Apple likes to take its time before really admitting to having any problems with its products.
 

M1A0C8

macrumors newbie
May 5, 2006
5
0
I have previously dealt with apple on the noise problem the G5 iMacs were having. I have found trying to get honest info about problems out of the company to be like walking in a fog.

I have talked to several people about the current MBP problem as I am considering a laptop purchase. I spoke with one person in technical support who was very helpful, like a breath of fresh air. She said there were problems with heat on some units, to the point were they replaced units because the heat had damaged furniture. She also recomended buying a powerbook if you don't NEED the extra power of the MBP to avoid potiental problems.
 

Gokhan

macrumors 6502a
Oct 7, 2003
703
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London
k

welll people will rush and buy these things so apple always wins in the end me im sticking with my powerbook g4 underdog no intel inside thanks