Can't Decide: MBP 13 inch vs Lenovo t450s

[scubacat]

Have you looked into the lenovo X1 carbon? Really nice windows laptop.

I've looked at the X1 carbon recently but I hesitate because I hear that Lenovo has gone downhill in quality and customer service lately. My last 3 computers were Lenovo T series but I'm thinking of moving to a MBP now. The specs look pretty similar and the X1 is getting cheaper all the time. Does anyone have any comparisons between the X1 and the MBP retina?

Here's what I'm looking at:
Lenovo X1 carbon 3rd generation
Intel Broadwell i5-5200U 2.7 Ghz
14” QHD (2560 x 1440) IPS
8 GB RAM
Intel HD graphics 5500
256 GB SSD
$1126 with employee discount (retail $1609)

vs.

2015 13” MBP retina
2560 x 1600 resolution
2.7 GHz i5
8 GB RAM
256 GB SSD
$1399 with education discount

 

[Bankaimadness]

Yeah, comparing that Lenovo to a MacBook Pro model with 3-year old hardware is kind of silly. The fact that Apple is still charging $1,099 for that thing is lunacy. It's an $800 laptop at best these days...

The more appropriate comparison would be the base 13" Retina MacBook Pro and a Lenovo customized most closely to that model.

Base rMBP:
2.7GHz i5-5257U (3.1GHz max turbo)
8GB RAM
Intel Iris 6100 Graphics
128GB SSD
Retina Display (2560x1600)
$1,299

Closest T450s
2.3GHz i5-5300 (2.9GHz max turbo)
8GB RAM
Intel HD 5500 Graphics
128GB SSD
1080p IPS Display (1920x1080)
$1,151.10 (as customized)

The rMBP is a bit more expensive (by about 11%) in this comparison, but...

1. It has faster CPUs with higher thermal thresholds (28W vs. 15W parts) and they're able to maintain faster clock speeds for longer periods.

2. Apple uses the top-spec Broadwell i5 chips with Intel's best integrated GPUs.

3. Apple currently has the fastest SSD in the business.

4. The Retina Display has the Lenovo's IPS display beat on resolution and pixel density.

5. NOBODY makes a better multi-gesture trackpad than Apple.

On a side note, the rMBP weighs about the same as the T450s at 3.5 lbs. Neither would be considered ultralight, but they won't beat up your shoulder. 🙂

A lot of people bash Apple for being expensive, but when compared fairly on a spec-to-spec basis, you'll find that this isn't always the case.

Why on earth would you configure the T450s with a pre-installed SSD, when you can get an aftermarket SSD for waay cheaper?

A 500GB SSD is going for $200 now.

 

[wonhyuns]

I had a t440 w/ 8gig/256ssd and I sold it after a month of use.

The reasons:

- screen is horrible at 1600 x 900 w/ matte finish. The 1080p may be better, but I doubt it's no where close to retina display
- you will most likely never use the ports that the thinkpad offers for home usage, so it's not even an advantage (rather a disadvantage that keeps the laptop thick)
- so many little issues with battery, windows, drivers, overall sluggishness that I got fed up with.

Go with the mac, if you are not a primary windows user.

 

[dogslobber]

Ok I been doing research and the T450s seems to be a bit better?

I went to Lenovo.com and did a configuration. Choosing the ips panel 1920x1080 resolution, the t450s came out at about $953.

While the basic MBP 13 inch is $1,099 with worse specs and a bit heavier.

3.5 pound for the t450s vs the 4.5LB for the MBP 13 inch.

Well specs aside there is still build quality.

How is the build quality for the T450s vs the MBP 13 inch? Anyone here have a feel of the two computers?

Buy the PC laptop if you're unsure 🙂

 

[CaptainChunk]

Why on earth would you configure the T450s with a pre-installed SSD, when you can get an aftermarket SSD for waay cheaper?

A 500GB SSD is going for $200 now.

I was comparing config to config, not considering aftermarket. You're making a blanket assumption that everyone is keen on opening their machines to swap out drives.

 

[brdeveloper]

I was comparing config to config, not considering aftermarket. You're making a blanket assumption that everyone is keen on opening their machines to swap out drives.

A Lenovo T-Series also likes drinking coffee. Macs are like 1-gen robots, which can't eat real food 😎

Seriously speaking, the deciding factor to me is OSX. PCIe SSD and Retina resolution are nice, but the possibility of installing a big SATA-III SSD is even nicer. Lenovo T-Series usually allow RAM upgrade.

If the OP is OS-agnostic, a T450s seems to be a better deal IMO.

 

[DarwinOSX]

Lenovo build quality is terrible and so is their support. Windows sucks. Why are you here?

Ok I been doing research and the T450s seems to be a bit better?

I went to Lenovo.com and did a configuration. Choosing the ips panel 1920x1080 resolution, the t450s came out at about $953.

While the basic MBP 13 inch is $1,099 with worse specs and a bit heavier.

3.5 pound for the t450s vs the 4.5LB for the MBP 13 inch.

Well specs aside there is still build quality.

How is the build quality for the T450s vs the MBP 13 inch? Anyone here have a feel of the two computers?

 

[Frisco]

What did you wind up buying?

 

[Cantime77]

This is hardly a comparison.
It would be just silly to invest in a three year technology today. The 13' macbook update is overdue and only then you would be able to kind of compare.

T450s - The red track point. After a short learning curve going back to normal track pad will make you question why other laptops don't have it as it will slow you down. There is a reason Lenovo kept the track point and in the latest models returned the original buttons on the mouse pad as well. Ergonomics is king and what they have on the T450s is as good as it gets (at least today). With the wicked red track point and all its ports galore it will scream "I work for a living".

Macbook - OSX!!! ...and oh yeah... did I mention OSX?

 

[Bankaimadness]

What did you wind up buying?

Hey!

I wind up buying the Lenovo t450s!

 

[Bankaimadness]

I was comparing config to config, not considering aftermarket. You're making a blanket assumption that everyone is keen on opening their machines to swap out drives.

I am sorry for applying common sense and logic. My rationale was that it is worth the time to take out the back cover to switch out the drives and save a couple hundred dollars. (With all the SSD sales out there) I also calculated opportunity cost into this and it was still worth it.

My assumption was of course based on logic and common sense.

 

[SE43]

Hey!

I wind up buying the Lenovo t450s!

I currently have a 2015 13" rMBP and am thinking of selling that and going for a T440s (Or maybe a T450s if I can find a decent spec'd one on eBay) and I have owned a T420 in the past, which is still a fantastic laptop if you can pick up a cheap used one. Also had an X220 for a short while, again, cracking laptop for how much I paid.

Honestly, I love my Mac, it's brilliant, however I'm primarily a Windows user. My Home PC is Windows and the only Mac/Apple device I have is my mac. Which is okay, but I'm forced to use Windows applications for my degree, making having a Mac more of a hinderance than a help. Having to use Parallels to run Windows is a less than ideal situation, and not to mention the battery life is awful while doing so. It doesn't run as well as I'd like it to and think I might as well go for a Windows laptop. Boot Camp was an option, but then I was questioning why I needed a Mac if I'm just installing Windows. On top of that, the drivers on Boot Camp in my opinion aren't great at all, the trackpad being one of the most annoying, seems to have a laggy delay to it when clicking things.

The T series from Thinkpad are an excellent balance between portability and battery life. The X series is nice too, though having the slightly bigger screen real estate is nice to have when you need it.

Dell XPS 13 was a big contender too in my eyes, but I ordered one of them and didn't like it at all for a few small reasons, plus Windows 8.1 didn't contend with scaling half as well as it should due to the higher resolution display. Ended up returning it.

Anyway, how are you finding the T450s?

 

[maflynn]

I am sorry for applying common sense and logic. My rationale was that it is worth the time to take out the back cover to switch out the drives and save a couple hundred dollars. (With all the SSD sales out there) I also calculated opportunity cost into this and it was still worth it.

My assumption was of course based on logic and common sense.

How are you liking your computer so far, what things are great about it and what things are not so great?

 

[zhenya]

I currently have a 2015 13" rMBP and am thinking of selling that and going for a T440s (Or maybe a T450s if I can find a decent spec'd one on eBay) and I have owned a T420 in the past, which is still a fantastic laptop if you can pick up a cheap used one. Also had an X220 for a short while, again, cracking laptop for how much I paid.

Honestly, I love my Mac, it's brilliant, however I'm primarily a Windows user. My Home PC is Windows and the only Mac/Apple device I have is my mac. Which is okay, but I'm forced to use Windows applications for my degree, making having a Mac more of a hinderance than a help. Having to use Parallels to run Windows is a less than ideal situation, and not to mention the battery life is awful while doing so. It doesn't run as well as I'd like it to and think I might as well go for a Windows laptop. Boot Camp was an option, but then I was questioning why I needed a Mac if I'm just installing Windows. On top of that, the drivers on Boot Camp in my opinion aren't great at all, the trackpad being one of the most annoying, seems to have a laggy delay to it when clicking things.

The T series from Thinkpad are an excellent balance between portability and battery life. The X series is nice too, though having the slightly bigger screen real estate is nice to have when you need it.

Dell XPS 13 was a big contender too in my eyes, but I ordered one of them and didn't like it at all for a few small reasons, plus Windows 8.1 didn't contend with scaling half as well as it should due to the higher resolution display. Ended up returning it.

Anyway, how are you finding the T450s?

I have a T440s, and we now buy the T450s for new users. It's a good laptop, as far as Windows go, but I honestly don't think it competes with what Apple is making. There are just too many corners cut. You have to play the screen lottery as to whether you get a good (IPS screen) or one from their other supplier (more common) with viewing angles like a cheap TN screen. Battery life is marginal. I wouldn't be surprised if the MBP gets better battery life running Parallels than the Thinkpad does on its own. 5 hours is a stretch without the extended battery. The trackpad ranges from 'ok' to poor. I happen to think it's good for a Windows implementation, but it's still nothing like that on a Mac, especially now with Force Touch. Also, with dozens of Thinkpads in our workplace, I've seen very poor life from their batteries - after just 100 cycles or so they generally have lost a good bit of capacity especially if the user runs them below 10% frequently.

Good stuff is that the keyboard is excellent - even better than those on the Macbook, IMO. However the backlight implementation is poor. It scatters light everywhere, doesn't come on automatically, and turns itself off once you have manually turned it on at every opportunity. The loss of the buttons for the trackpoint was unfortunate for the T440s; they are back for the T450s. The build quality is good, the materials are nice and they hold up well to wear and tear. Still, the fit and finish isn't on the same level as the aluminum chassis MacBooks.

The Thinkpad is a great workhorse for businesses that need laptops in this class. There is good service, good parts availability, good support for many years. Apple can't compete in that niche yet. But for a personal user, unless you are dedicated to Windows, I think the Macbook is a considerably better buy.

 

[SE43]

I have a T440s, and we now buy the T450s for new users. It's a good laptop, as far as Windows go, but I honestly don't think it competes with what Apple is making. There are just too many corners cut. You have to play the screen lottery as to whether you get a good (IPS screen) or one from their other supplier (more common) with viewing angles like a cheap TN screen. Battery life is marginal. I wouldn't be surprised if the MBP gets better battery life running Parallels than the Thinkpad does on its own. 5 hours is a stretch without the extended battery. The trackpad ranges from 'ok' to poor. I happen to think it's good for a Windows implementation, but it's still nothing like that on a Mac, especially now with Force Touch. Also, with dozens of Thinkpads in our workplace, I've seen very poor life from their batteries - after just 100 cycles or so they generally have lost a good bit of capacity especially if the user runs them below 10% frequently.

Good stuff is that the keyboard is excellent - even better than those on the Macbook, IMO. However the backlight implementation is poor. It scatters light everywhere, doesn't come on automatically, and turns itself off once you have manually turned it on at every opportunity. The loss of the buttons for the trackpoint was unfortunate for the T440s; they are back for the T450s. The build quality is good, the materials are nice and they hold up well to wear and tear. Still, the fit and finish isn't on the same level as the aluminum chassis MacBooks.

The Thinkpad is a great workhorse for businesses that need laptops in this class. There is good service, good parts availability, good support for many years. Apple can't compete in that niche yet. But for a personal user, unless you are dedicated to Windows, I think the Macbook is a considerably better buy.

Can exactly see what you mean, the Macbooks are great, but they are clearly marketed at a different target audience. It's just I'm unable to find a Windows machine that's quite like the Macbook (I do quite like the idea of the Surface Pro 3, though I'd wait until Surface Pro 4 now) and the Thinkpad comes pretty close to that. Again with different target audiences in mind. If I never used Windows it would be completely out of the question, as you put it, i'm dedicated to Windows and using OS X has been a nice experience, but it's physically impossible for me to completely ditch Microsoft's offering.

 

[mlts22]

I understand about Windows. However, one possible idea is to get some virtualization software and run it on a SSD. The SSD is the key part, as this means both operating systems are not fighting for a single read/write head. I've done this, and there is a little bit of performance lost, but surprisingly less than I expected.

 

[gngan]

Two unlike things? These two "unlike" things are still both computer. I just want a computer with good quality.

Yes, I am leaning towards OSX because it looks a lot better than Windows 8.1. ( A TOTAL MESS COMPARED TO WINDOWS 7).


But the specs are abysmal compared to the thinkpad. However, since I am not a heavy gamer I don't really think it matters that much besides the resolution/ips panel that the t450s have over the MBP.


So right now I want build quality/durability. Which will satisfy me more?

Yup, two 'unlike things. According to you, why buy a 2015 car when you can get a 1900 car. They are both car right? Or, why buy a house when you can just sleep on the street.

Why do people keep asking these things. If you have to ask then just get the Lenovo.

 

[maflynn]

There are just too many corners cut. You have to play the screen lottery as to whether you get a good (IPS screen) or one from their other supplier (more common) with viewing angles like a cheap TN screen.

Not for nothing but there were too many threads here about the screen lottery for prior MBPs, though I think Apple has largely fixed that issue. My point is that people here had problems with ghosting and had to deal with screen issues if the panel maker was not Samsung.

 

[zhenya]

Not for nothing but there were too many threads here about the screen lottery for prior MBPs, though I think Apple has largely fixed that issue. My point is that people here had problems with ghosting and had to deal with screen issues if the panel maker was not Samsung.

My experience, however, is that for the most part, complaints with Apple's screens generally have to do with defects that are rather subtle - I actually think that's a good thing though - Apple users have much higher standards and they push Apple to make products that are as good as possible. This screen lottery from Lenovo though was really horrendous. One screen was an excellent IPS, the other was truly equivalent to a poor TN. Yet Lenovo continued to insist publicly that they were 'identical' when anyone at all could clearly see they were not.