Can't do it anymore

Discussion in 'Mac Pro' started by thefredelement, Dec 7, 2016.

  1. thefredelement macrumors 65816

    thefredelement

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Location:
    New York
    #1
    I've gotten a Mac Pro 2013 around a year ago. I've defended it in these forums, back then and recently when announcements happen with no updates to the product line.

    My biggest argument for the Mac Pro was that it can still be supported, as a pro software developer - I need my computer to have warranty, I need it to be rapidly fixed so I can work. I've got other Macs but I need a pro machine for the varying tasks involving interface and software development that I do on a daily basis. I have 5 virtual desktops open and they are all cluttered with Sketch and Xcode windows.

    My Mac Pro will sometimes not wake my thunderbolt screen after it sleeps. The only cure is a hard reset. This is new to 10.12.x.

    I emailed Tim Cook with a bit of a rant, I didn't realize on a daily basis how many little Apple originated annoyances I deal with. I guess that email got forwarded to some support person who reached out to me to deal with the primary issue of my screen not always waking.

    After some logging and back and forth, though concretely reproducible via software (restarting w/out logging in will always cause my screen not to wake after it sleeps), the support person I spoke with said my Mac was made in a certain date range and may have a bad video card. (Though it has 2 D700s)

    They proceeded to tell me I can get an in home repair because the Mac has Apple Care on it, or I can bring it in to an Apple Store. I opted for the in home repair and was setup with some 3rd party, who later called me and told me they will pick the Mac up and take it for up to 48 hours and then bring it back. Obviously this is a minor PITA but the more I thought about how I'm not able to protect my data on the disk (can't use fire vault because no boot screens or fire vault unlock due to my MST display), the more I didn't want to do that.

    I reached out to the Apple person again who told me that company was the only one available. Now, I'm located in New York, about 30 minutes outside of NYC, I find it really hard to believe that only 1 company can service that entire area and that they are the only choice.

    He said they probably want to do that to ensure a static free environment, which aside from leaving the plug connected to alleviate any discharge in a properly grounded system, can be avoided by a strap. Secondly, the RAM is user replaceable and exposes the same things as swapping the video cards will.

    Aside from that, I asked if he could set me up with a local store with the smallest repair queue and pre order the parts in hopes of being able to do it while I wait. He couldn't help me out with that, we left it off with that I have to call around and see what store can help me get my $4,000+ Mac w/Apple Care repaired. All of this and I'm 99% sure it's a 10.12.x glitch (that's coincidentally spoken about all over the web - including Apple's own forums).

    I think I'm done, it's not that the set of 1st world problems is more than mildly annoying, it's the paying for the premium that doesn't exist. I can't give Apple my money anymore. I can switch everything to other platforms except Xcode, I don't know if I'll really go through with it, I just want it all to work right but I think Apple can go screw themselves with their crappy time wasting service.
     
  2. bcave098 macrumors 6502

    bcave098

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Location:
    Northern British Columbia
    #2
    Apple gave you repair options with limited turnaround time, but you don't accept it. Just choose the fastest option (probably on-site service) and if you're really that concerned about your data, make a backup then erase the volume, data is essentially irrecoverable on an SSD.
     
  3. ActionableMango macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    #3
    This is a known problem with the LG Thunderbolt 1440P monitor and I don't think there is anything you can do on the Apple side to fix it, so I'm curious if you have that particular model.
     
  4. thefredelement thread starter macrumors 65816

    thefredelement

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Location:
    New York
    #4
    I don't accept it because it's all BS, it's a clear software problem and this is all a waste of time. I don't want to waste my time further for something I"m damn sure I'm going to be able to reproduce directly after the on-site/off-site/on-site repair.

    Furthermore Apple not being able to arrange a same day repair in the NYC area is BS. I can walk in with an iPhone and get a battery or screen replaced but they can't perform this repair (https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Mac+Pro+Late+2013+Graphics+Card+Replacement/21208), which isn't rocket science, without some ordained wait time? Not only that, but their support is unable to find which stores would have the shortest wait time? I don't buy it, the more I talk and think about it, the less likely I'll ever 'buy' it again.

    Had this been a PC (and trust me, I hate this argument, I've been railing against it on these very forums), and had this been the real cause of the problem, I'd be able to either go to a store, or order and get tomorrow, a replacement and have it done within minutes. For the cost I could probably have a backup PC sitting here and still have money left over.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 7, 2016 ---
    I have the 31MU97-B which uses thunderbolt and has a resolution of 4096x2160. I know I gave up SST *features* like boot screens or fire vault login but before 10.12 I never had the wake issue. If it is a monitor issue that somehow only occurs on 10.12.x than that's even most more inexcusable in a way - especially if known to Apple.
     
  5. bcave098 macrumors 6502

    bcave098

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Location:
    Northern British Columbia
    #5
    Phone support can't see everything in the stores' systems. There's no way for them to know how "busy" a store is without talking to someone in the store.

    But if you don't want to have anyone try to fix it, deal with it and move on.
     
  6. thefredelement thread starter macrumors 65816

    thefredelement

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Location:
    New York
    #6
    Fair enough, I guess I would have been Ok with something like, "I don't know, let me make a few calls and get back to you."

    Instead of me reaching out and trying to track it down for something I think won't work anyway.
     
  7. ITguy2016 Suspended

    Joined:
    May 25, 2016
    #7
    Many of the big name vendors offer on site repair / replacement...even on consumer grade systems. Apple Care looks like a poor value in comparison.
     
  8. macmee Suspended

    macmee

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2008
    Location:
    Canada
    #8
    For what it's worth, I had that *EXACT* same issue with wake with my iMac only on Sierra. Very annoying. I reverted to el cap because of it. They're claiming that's a hardware problem? I am very sceptical of that considering the issue depends on OS version.
     
  9. ActionableMango macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    #9
    Hmmm, that's a different model so I won't assert that it is the same problem.

    I am suspicious though because there are widespread reports of wake-from-sleep and wake-from-powerup problems on Macs with the 34UM94 and 34UM95, which are also both LG Thunderbolt monitors. I guess if you like you can read more and decide for yourself:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/mid-2012-mp-and-lg-34um95-wake-from-sleep-problem.1947647/
    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/sleep-wake-issues-with-mac-pro-gtx-680-lg-34um95-p.1948464/
    http://forums.macrumors.com/threads/lg-34um95-display-boot-issue.1797744/
     
  10. thefredelement thread starter macrumors 65816

    thefredelement

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Location:
    New York
    #10
    Eek! That was a bummer of a read to be sure. My gut is telling me it's some type of thunderbolt or dp over thunderbolt negotiation that we all experience.

    I hesitate to blame the monitor itself in my case because it worked as expected before 10.12.

    There was a post in the latter thread alluding to standards that all these ports/port owners should adhere to, I really wish there was a clear way to diagnose it. I think the evidence of those displays working fine on varying Windows/PC hardware and Windows on Mac hardware means that it's a Mac OS problem.

    I'm really curious about these new Apple LG partnered displays now too.
     
  11. J&JPolangin macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2008
    Location:
    Thule GL @ the TOW
    #11
    ...interested to find out how this gets fixed?
     
  12. ActionableMango macrumors 604

    ActionableMango

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2010
    #12
  13. thefredelement thread starter macrumors 65816

    thefredelement

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Location:
    New York
    #13
    I have an older USB external I can try 10.11 on, I'll get it setup tonight from the App Store and install it tomorrow. I look forward to seeing what happens between the two.
     
  14. wonderspark macrumors 68030

    wonderspark

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2010
    Location:
    Oregon
    #14
    From an AppleCare perspective, let me tell you that I used to work for AppleCare in 2015.

    AppleCare is a nightmare job. It was a secondary job I took because I thought it would be fun, and I figured I'd be really good at it. AppleCare agents have two to three bosses. 1. Customer, because they can give you a bad survey, and then any bonus you have is killed for the month. 2. Apple, because they run AppleCare. Other companies (such as Xerox for example) also contract out AppleCare service, so if you're talking to one of them, those guys have 3. Contractor boss.

    The problem I'm sure you can guess already is that the two or three bosses have different ideas of good service. Customer wants accurate info, fast service, friendly and free if possible. Apple (and any contractor hired by Apple) wants the absolute minimum by the agent to appease the customer. Their ideal world would be people calling AppleCare to ask how to change fonts on my Mac, which can be answered in two minutes, and hang up so the agent can take the next call in the queue. Therefore, there is the urge of the agent to make customer happy, which is directly opposed by Apple demanding faster call turnovers.

    I had a reputation of being the more friendly, helpful agent. In their eyes, a little too helpful. Apple was always telling me I could get through calls faster by just tossing some ******** their way and then go high pressure to get customer to hang up, since we were not allowed to terminate the calls. People would have more than one question many times, and we were pressured to tell them, "Okay, I'll answer ONE more question, but then I have to help other customers, okay?" This in a chipper voice.

    Anyway, I'm getting off track. I used to be that agent that would put you on hold and call up all the stores nearby (and do the magic to bypass the automated system) and talk to a real in-store agent, and ask them about wait times or what policies they might be willing to bend to help out the customer. For that, I got bonuses that were lower than those that just told the customer to blow themselves and tough cookie, etc. But, I felt better, because I had people that were so very thankful, and wrote me super nice things on my surveys.

    I feel for you, because yeah, they could have done more, but know that they are being treated like dirt, and take some comfort in knowing they have a life-sucking, brain-killing job at AppleCare. I was pretty happy with it, but most of those people are miserable, and I'm not surprised they have a high turn-over rate.
     
  15. bcave098 macrumors 6502

    bcave098

    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2015
    Location:
    Northern British Columbia
    #15
    Not to mention that some of the customers they have to deal with are insatiable and the level one people can't make any exceptions
     
  16. gbredneck macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2010
    #17
    Am having the same issue with a 2013 Pro & dell UP3216q, it seems to skip OS upgrades and every second or third upgrade the problem rears its head. Would be interested to hear if you ever get it fixed.
     
  17. thefredelement thread starter macrumors 65816

    thefredelement

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Location:
    New York
    #18
    Thanks, I appreciate the perspective. The person I was working has been nice but seems locked into one trajectory despite clear indicators that it will only be a waste of time and money. I guess they don't care about that as long as the issue is showing progress.

    They also seem to want to not get engineering involved at any level, when it seems very likely this is an engineering issue.
     
  18. CapnDavey macrumors 6502

    CapnDavey

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2015
    #19
    Apple in the past anyway was very good at repair and fixing problems I bought a MDD G4 new back in 02 I installed a DVR 105 burner somehow I hosed the IDE cable. Apple sent me a new one in 2 days that was then this is now!
     
  19. itdk92 macrumors 6502

    itdk92

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    #20
    The LG31MU97Z-B and LG31MU97-B have had compatibility issues with mac before.

    Wouldn't be surprised if it was not a GPU problem.

    That said, just backup and erase the disk, no need to complain about that.

    And about the same-day repair, frankly it doesn't shock me that Apple has a logic board with double D700 in stock right in NYC

    I understand the frustration though.

    If it was a model say from 2015, they would definitely hve that logicboard in stock.
     
  20. evoluzione macrumors 68020

    evoluzione

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2002
    Location:
    down the road, that's where i'll always be
    #21
    I totally understand your predicament...and if you were positioned some troubleshooting that made sense, you probably wouldn't be willing to be done with Apple, I'm guessing. The video card is not the issue. It sounds like more testing is in order with diff. OSes etc. Apple ave obviously changed something, as they always do. Maybe they are conforming to standards more than they did, but they should still be able to inform you of that in your situation, and test accordingly.

    I ditched Apple a year ago after being everything Apple for decades, since the mid Nineties. They swapped my iPhone 6+ TEN times before I gave up, and they knew the main issue I was having was faulty parts...they positioned an upgrade to the 6S+ for me, but sent me the 6+, again...and then told me they can never upgrade (I know for a fact that they can). Even Executive Relations (who handle those TC emails) reached out to me and told me they'd continue to swap it out (extremely frustrating and time consuming). I sold all my Macs, and am happier using a PC I pieced together for $400 (I sold my three 5yr old i7 Macs for over $3k!). I now use a Google Nexus Android phone and love it far more than the hundreds of iPhones I administer every day.

    Anyway, similar to what wonderspark said, I used to work for Apple, as a Genius for five years (one of the highest Customer Satisfaction scores) and in their Enterprise Server department (again with excellent scores) but I never got 'prizes' or anything as I took fractionally longer on my calls - but I got first time resolution negating the need for a frustrated customer to call in a second time. AppleCare has gone downhill steadily for many years. I personally would have called the stores and spoken to the Genius Admin and told them the situation, and they could have preordered the Video Card (even if only to test with) so you could have gone in and had them test it while you wait (they CAN do this with such a simple, fast 'repair'). Also, I don't know if this is still a thing, but I would have told you about JointVenture which cost $100 and is geared for exactly people like you and your business needs.

    Hope you sort this out, and I'll be interested to see what the issue is/was.
     
  21. thefredelement thread starter macrumors 65816

    thefredelement

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Location:
    New York
    #22
    I think you nailed it. I think while the issue was up in the air with me sending captures to Apple every time it happened I was kind of hopeful a fix would appear in 10.12.3, or that it would be known. It seems the person I was working with got a bone in his mouth with this video card replacement thing and that's when I really thought they are kind of full of it. He was ignoring most of the facts of the issue and just found something to hang the issue on to get it off his plate.

    Then this 3rd party repair service just compounded the issue with stupidity.

    Add to that I have to waste even more time to accommodate what he wants and it's just a process of frustration. It's time that I'm spending to appease their process while the issue is also not in engineering's hands.

    To me, I think it comes down to not really being heard fully about the issue and getting an assembly line type of approach because it's better for some support person's metrics. I guess feelings come into this stuff when time wasting is involved, I just can't get over what I paid for all this stuff and how it's playing out. - I know it's not the end of the world but that's not the point, the point is it should work and I bought the extra warranty just in case.

    I downloaded the 10.11 installer last night so I'm going to install it on an external USB tonight. An issue I foresee is I think I'm going to have to hookup a secondary display to use the boot menu, or maybe I can get it into with the startup disk preference (I hope!). I don't know if the presence of a 2nd display will alter my issue if not.

    I'm also going to dig up a mini-dp to dp OEM cable for the display (I think it came with a few variants) and try that instead of the Apple thunderbolt cable I'm using now.

    I'm also going to email the person I've been dealing with and ask to escalate the issue to their supervisor while also contacting some local stores when I have time later this afternoon in hopes of making whatever appeasement process as quick as possible.

    Thank you guys for your feedback, it helps to alleviate some of the frustration.
     
  22. itdk92 macrumors 6502

    itdk92

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    #23
    You should definitely give it a try with the miniDP to DP OEM cable :)

    just FYI, Thinderbolt limits the color spectrum to 8Bit

    You need DisplayPort for the 10Bit colors on the 31MU97
     
  23. thefredelement thread starter macrumors 65816

    thefredelement

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2012
    Location:
    New York
    #24
    Just got off the phone w/the person at Apple. There is no supervisor, he's at the 'top of the food chain' as he put it, so I'm stuck in that regard.

    I told him I'll do what I can to get it fixed but I'm done buying new Apple stuff if this is the kind of service I get. He said he'd hate to lose me as a customer but I get it, I'm only me and they don't give a sh*t.

    When I brought up my concerns regarding my data using the company he arranged his only suggestion was to use to wipe the drive. I just can't believe that is the solution they recommend. It's like a rabbit hole of time. He then said I should call around to not only apple stores but to other local authorized repair shops to find one who can just swap the cards. If this is the top of the food chain of apple's support we're all screwed if we have problems.

    It's not just this issue now, what if this Mac is fried and my work just stopped dead in it's tracks? I need a company that has my back.
     
  24. itdk92 macrumors 6502

    itdk92

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2016
    #25

    How does the ideal solution for your case looks like, in your opinion? :)
     

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