can't write to NTFS shares - WORKAROUND/SOLUTION

Discussion in 'macOS' started by nmonkee, Apr 8, 2008.

  1. nmonkee macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    #1
    So I have an issue with OSX, where by I can't write to NTFS shares on W2K3 servers with SMB signing turned on and IPV6 disabled for the interface.

    To recreate the issue:

    Create a folder named test that contains two files one named ._test.txt and test.txt on OSX and copy to an SMB share on W2k3.

    This results in spurious errors about permissions and locked files.

    Copying a file larger than 4k results in the error:

    "The operation cannot be completed because you do not have sufficient privileges or some of the items."

    Using mount_smbfs from a shell on OSX results in the error: "Permission denied"

    host:~ user$ mount_smbfs //user@server/share /Volumes/test-smbmount/
    Password:
    host:~ user$ cp test.docx /Volumes/test-smbmount/
    cp: /Volumes/test-smbmount/test.docx: Permission denied

    Using smbclient from a shell on OSX results in SUCCESS!!!

    host:~ user$ smbclient \\\\server\\\share -U user
    Password:
    Domain=[DOMAIN] OS=[Windows Server 2003 3790 Service Pack 2] Server=[Windows Server 2003 5.2]
    smb: \> put test.docx
    putting file test.docx as \test.docx (784.7 kb/s) (average 784.7 kb/s)
    smb: \>

    There is an alternative solution if you do need to drag and drop in your gui world, it'll cost you $120

    link: http://www.thursby.com/products/dave-eval.html

    I have mailed the developer as he has obviously identified the root problem of the issue and I urged him to share his patch/resolution with Apple in the interests of the user community and a darn nice thing to do.
     
  2. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Location:
    On the Left Coast - Victoria BC Canada
    #2
    Ummm... you have encouraged the developer of commercial software to share his proprietary knowledge so that customers no longer have to buy his software?

    That wouldn't only be darn nice, that would be business suicide.
     
  3. killmoms macrumors 68040

    killmoms

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2003
    Location:
    Washington, DC
    #3
    Perhaps, but when he's charging $120 for what's obviously a fix for a flaw in the OS, he deserves to have his business destroyed. Obviously he won't do it himself, but when Apple corrects the issue, I won't cry for him.
     
  4. walnuts macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #4
    so is this an apple bug? Should this be reported to apple in the hopes that they could fix it with a later leopard update?
     
  5. durija macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2008
    Location:
    Seattle
    #5
  6. tdhurst macrumors 68040

    tdhurst

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2003
    Location:
    Phoenix, AZ
    #6
    Totally

    By your reasoning McAfee and Norton should be driven out of business as well, yes?

    He's charging what the market will bear. Welcome to America.
     
  7. nmonkee thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    #7
    can't write to NTFS shares - WORKAROUND/SOLUTION

    I had a response form the developer to my request. I sent my workaround solution to the developer and stated that in my opinion the pricing for the software seems unnecessarily high based on the functionality it provides and way above what I would be willing to pay to resolve one small issue.

    <developers response>

    Pricing is a difficult topic to discuss -- but if you have no use for the product, any price is too much. As for reporting bugs to Apple, they'll listen to customers much sooner than they'll listen to developers. And they have some of the brightest engineers I know. If you report the bug to them, they'll likely have it fixed in the next update.

    </developers response>

    I couldn't find away to report the bug myself so I had a friend who has inside with contacts to do it for me. The response I had back from Apple was less than satisfactory.

    They believe that the issue is to do with NTFS streams and that a file containing ".com.apple.smb.streams.on" needs to be created and placed into the root of shared volumes. This is not a fix!

    If you want to prevent writing the "Apple Double" files to a remote share, enter the following into a terminal:

    $ defaults write com.apple.desktopservices DSDontWriteNetworkStores true

    Problem still exists.

    ref: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=301711

    <apple double description>

    ref: fhttp://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106510

    Before Mac OS X, the Mac OS used 'forked' files, which have two components: a data fork and a resource fork. The Mac OS Standard (HFS) and Mac OS Extended (HFS Plus) disk formats support forked files. When you move these types of files to other disk formats, the resource fork can be lost.

    With Mac OS X, there is a mechanism called "Apple Double" that allows the system to work with disk formats that do not have a forked file feature, such as remote NFS, SMB, WebDAV directories, or local UFS volumes. Apple Double does this by converting the file into two separate files. The first new file keeps the original name and contains the data fork of the original file. The second new file has the name of the original file prefixed by a "._ " and contains the resource fork of the original file. If you see both files, the ._ file can be safely ignored. Sometimes when deleting a file, the ._ component will not be deleted. If this occurs you can safely delete the ._ file.

    </apple double description>

    I am not the only one this issue. A quick peruse on http://macwindows.com/ will show that numerous people are suffering and numerous workarounds have been suggested. Sadly none of which work for me. Each work around is stranger than the previous. Such as disabling IPV6 and updating Daylight Savings Time.

    The issue lies with the samba integration. I am primarily a Gentoo Linux user and this kind of bug would have been resolved almost instantly if present in open source software.
     
  8. walnuts macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #8
    As per a suggestion from from forum member "yellow", I tried using:

    cifs://server/share

    which produced the same symptoms. This would mean that the problem extends beyond just samba, right?
     
  9. nmonkee thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    #9
    Common Internet File System (CIFS) is an extension to SMB. I won't go into massive amounts of detail about exactly how it operates, just google if you want to while the afternoon away. The core of CIFS is based on SMB. Luckily CIFS is also open/public.
     
  10. CanadaRAM macrumors G5

    CanadaRAM

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2004
    Location:
    On the Left Coast - Victoria BC Canada
    #10
    Holy smokes...

    Thursby DAVE has been on the market for years (since System 6 or somewhere around there, now on DAVE Ver. 7) and is a solid and supported solution to Mac-Windows networking. They are not charging $120 for a single obvious fix to an OS bug... and they started out long before there was any Windows networking support in the OS.
     
  11. walnuts macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #11
    I'm no expert, but it looks like this bug isn't mentioned in the fix list for the 10.5.3 seed.

    Has anyone submitted this to bugreport.apple.com?
     
  12. nmonkee thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    #12
    Yes I submitted a bug report and was told hat it had been merged with one filed already. So it is a known issue to Apple, but they haven't publicised the fact that one of their 300 feature claims, does not work.

    A quick search on share, smb, ntfs, mount and cifs does not show any imminent fix? perhaps I overlooked it in the list, but I do not believe this issue is going to be fixed in the 10.5.3 update.
     
  13. walnuts macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #13
    Nope- none of those terms brought up anything. There was a mention of binding to Active Directories:

    could that have anything to do with it?
     
  14. nmonkee thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    #14
    short answer: no.

    longer answer: OSX cannot write to smb shares that are configured to require SMB signing of the transport. Active Directory does not have to be involved. I believe this probably has more to do with joining Active Directory domains, querying for objects or the like.
     
  15. walnuts macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #15
    maybe...

    Ok, well, how about this? The seed bug fix includes:

    In fact, another NTLM fix is listed in a previous seed fix list.

    According to wikipedia:

    That sounds like it might be a fix! They just seeded another 10.5.3 build yesterday...
     
  16. nmonkee thread starter macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    #16
    The issue has nothing to do with NTLM or authorisation. It is to do with SMB signing.
     
  17. walnuts macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2007
    Location:
    Brooklyn, NY
    #17
    10.5.3 fixed it!

    10.5.3 fixed the issue for me. I have just checked:

    • copying files to the share
    • deleting files from the share
    • saving a word file on the share

    It all works! Thanks a bunch apple!

    Everyone else have similar results?
     

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