car clutch question

[etoiles]

I have been driving manual transmission for over 10years... maybe I have been doing things wrong during all that time, so I am asking the more illuminated MR crowd: does it matter if you press the clutch as opposed to putting the car in neutral at a red light ?

A friend wants to learn how to drive a stick, so I checked out a few websites for advice and they all say it is bad to keep the clutch pressed for an extended period of time.

For example:
http://www.ehow.com/how_3234_drive-car-with.html
"Avoid coasting with the clutch all the way down (called "riding the clutch"), as this will cause needless wear and tear on the clutch. When stopped at a traffic light, put the gearshift into the neutral position and release the clutch rather than sitting with the clutch engaged."

or

http://www.whtc.com/Shared/Auto/tutorials/learnstick.html
"When at a stoplight, don't get in the habit of holding the clutch in for more than a few seconds or you will have other problems down the line. Instead, put the car in neutral while stopped for any period of time."

Is there really a mechanical stress to worry about (springs?), or is this just a precaution ? This can't have anything to do with the actual plates, right ?

 

[bartelby]

I hold the clutch in at lights, unless I'm going to be stationary for some time.
My driving instructor said it didn't really make a difference.

"Riding the clutch" is where you have it just on the bite and hold the car still with that, like when you're on an incline and you stop the car rolling backwards using the clutch.

 

[clayj]

My brother puts his car in neutral at every light and takes his foot off the clutch... it apparently saves wear and tear on both the clutch itself and the clutch spring, which is what pushes the clutch pedal back up when you take your foot off of it.

Myself, I hate doing that because it makes it slower to put the car back in gear when the light changes to green.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Ok the stop light part has some grounds in it. The is a lot of force pushing agaist the clutch when you have the pedal in. The springs are compresses and it putting extra stress on it making them a little weaker. Also the pivit arm has a lot of extra stress on it causing it to wear a little faster. But I also heard agruments both ways on it. One is the extra time you pedal has to go in puts a little more wear on the clutch because being engage and disegage an extra time. I put my car in netrual at stop lights and let my foot off th clutch not because it better or worse for the car but because I dont want to sit there holding the clutch in. It gets rather tiring after a while and I think a lot of the agruments go to saying that that action is the right one to do because lets face it, who wants ot hold the clutch pedal in for a long period of time. I know I dont. I put the car back in gear shortly before the light changes. (Also i drive people nuts at stop lights because my cars brake lights are dark because I dont have my foot on there either but that is another thing)

As for riding the clutch that is resting your foot on the pedal when you are driving. It is very hard on the clutch because it causing it to slip just a little and putting extra wear and tear on it that is not needed.

 

[devilot]

My bf was in an auto tech program for awhile as was his buddy-- all of their teachers/ instructors/ co-workers (the friend works at a shop) all say it's a BIG NO-NO to keep the clutch in when you don't need to.

Premature wear.

At that particular shop, the friend saw an older woman come in with a completely shot clutch and assorted other parts. The other employees were sort of laughing because she apparently goes through a new clutch every year due to poor driving habits (including keeping the clutch in)!

 

[xJulianx]

My bf was in an auto tech program for awhile as was his buddy-- all of their teachers/ instructors/ co-workers (the friend works at a shop) all say it's a BIG NO-NO to keep the clutch in when you don't need to.

Premature wear.

At that particular shop, the friend saw an older woman come in with a completely shot clutch and assorted other parts. The other employees were sort of laughing because she apparently goes through a new clutch every year due to poor driving habits (including keeping the clutch in)!

I always keep the clutch in, I've had my car over a year now and the clutch is fine, never had any problems with it.

 

[iGav]

Depends on the situation, and how long the traffic light sequence is.

If the sequence is short, then I'll keep the clutch in, because the somewhat nominal wear of having the clutch in, is no greater than disengaging-engaging-disengaging-engaging it.

If the sequence is long, I'll put it in neutral.

Though, if I'm in a situation where there is potential that I might be rear ended (such as being first at the lights on a dual carriageway for example, or they're no other cars to act as a buffer) then I'll leave it in gear, because I'll want to get out of the doughnuts way.

Unless you keep your car for an inconceivably long time (or you cannot drive a manual properly) there really isn't any need to worry about wearing your clutch out... though obviously there are exceptions such as if you've tuned your car, or the geography of your location puts excess strain on your clutch, but you should be able to clear a minimum of 100k, and really you should be able to stretch it to the service interval where major engine work would be expected.

 

[Markleshark]

While there is no point n keeping the clutch in when you don't need to, its not going to make a huge difference to the life of a clutch if you do. For such as lights and stuff, fairly modern clutches are designed to take this extra wear. Also, for the price of a clutch kit (mine was £40) and considering I replaced it after the car had done 97,000 miles, and been driven by a female since new I think you'll be fine.

Getting the car serviced regularly helps as well, at the end of the day, if you look after it there is very little to go wrong (Much like the Mac your using )

 

[bartelby]

The clutch in my Alfa Romeo was replaced after 147,000 miles. Which ain't so bad.

 

[MalcolmJID]

When you hold the clutch in, particularly for a long period. It causes a lot of extra stress/wear on the spring etc as mentioned before. Also, noone yet seems to have mentioned that when you hold the clutch in, the clutch release bearing isnt lubricated, which of course, is a bad thing. Lubrication is a good thing. I've heard someone say that making a habit of sitting with the clutch in can down the line take nearly 20'000 miles off the life of a clutch.

I've got into the habit of using neutral as much as possible now!

 

[bartelby]

From Wikipedia

riding the clutch

In a vehicle with a manual transmission, "riding the clutch" refers to the practice of keeping the clutch partially disengaged when not required. This results in the clutch disc being unable to fully engage with the flywheel and causes premature wear on the disc. Sometimes used synonymously with "slipping the clutch," although some degree of slipping occurs every time the driver shifts -- riding the clutch can be avoided completely.

In a standard passenger vehicle, when shifting, the clutch pedal is pressed to the floor to disengage the clutch. The driver shifts to the next gear and then releases pressure on the clutch pedal to re-engage the engine to the driveshaft. If the pedal is released quickly, a definite lurch can be felt in the vehicle as the engine catches up to the drive shaft's rotation speed. However, if the clutch is released slowly the clutch disc will "slip" against the flywheel and allow the engine a smoother transition to its new rotation speed. This slipping causes wear on the clutch (similar to wear on a brake pad wear when stopping). Some amount of wear is unavoidable, but with better clutching/shifting technique it can be minimized.

Riding the clutch occurs when the driver never fully releases the clutch pedal and so the clutch disc is constantly slipping against the flywheel and thus some of the rotation of the engine is never transferred to the wheels. Most drivers have done this while driving in reverse or in stop-and-go traffic since it is easier to control the throttle and acceleration at very slow speeds.

 

[yg17]

I drive an auto, but I would think that having the clutch in more than neccesary will put extra wear on it.


My next car will be a manual though, and I already know I'll use neutral. I get lazy at red lights in my auto and occasionally will yank up the parking brake and take my foot off the brake, there's no way I'm going to hold in a clutch and the brake

 

[bartelby]

I drive an auto, but I would think that having the clutch in more than neccesary will put extra wear on it.


My next car will be a manual though, and I already know I'll use neutral. I get lazy at red lights in my auto and occasionally will yank up the parking brake and take my foot off the brake, there's no way I'm going to hold in a clutch and the brake

In the UK we use the handbrake when the car is stationary for more than a few seconds... or that's how we're taught anyway.

 

[frankblundt]

There's a safety issue also I think - if you're at the front of the queue and get rear-ended with the clutch in and footbrake on (as opposed to neutral and handbrake) there's a greater chance of the event resulting in your feet slipping off the pedals causing you to jump forwards into the traffic.

Related to some extent to the principle of keeping your wheels facing straight ahead while waiting to turn across the traffic stream, rather than at an angle that will shunt you directly into oncoming traffic if you get hit from behind.

 

[iGav]

The clutch in my Alfa Romeo was replaced after 147,000 miles. Which ain't so bad.

That's about what I'd expect... around the 150k mark.

Though I have to say mate, reaching that on an Alfa is f**king biblical.

 

[bartelby]

That's about what I'd expect... around the 150k mark.

Though I have to say mate, reaching that on an Alfa is f**king biblical.

It's on 155K now.

It's had 3 radiators (stupid stones!!)
It's on it's 2nd set of suspension
2nd clutch

And she still goes like a dream.
I'm sad she's going on sale after her MOT and service next month.

 

[yg17]

In the UK we use the handbrake when the car is stationary for more than a few seconds... or that's how we're taught anyway.

Yeah, in the US, we're taught to just hold the brake with our foot, but I get lazy

In fact, we're never really taught to use the handbrake at all. Obviously, people with manuals use the parking brake when they park, but most people with autos don't. I use it, I figure that if I'm going to put wear on a part to keep my car still when parked, I'd rather put the wear on the brakes than the much more expensive transmission

 

[iGav]

It's on it's 2nd set of suspension

That's not it's fault. Its an Alfa... born to be driven.

I'm sad she's going on sale after her MOT and service next month.

... but to be replaced by what???

 

[bartelby]

That's not it's fault. Its an Alfa... born to be driven.



... but to be replaced by what???

A Fiat Stilo... Not my choice!!

 

[iGav]

In fact, we're never really taught to use the handbrake at all.

We’d never have guessed... judging by how every car in 1970's U.S. cop shows would roll for 3ft when they were parked on a hill after the cop had gotten out.

 

[iGav]

A Fiat Stilo... Not my choice!!

D.I.V.O.R.C.E

 

[bartelby]

D.I.V.O.R.C.E

Hmmmm... It's an idea...

 

[Shaun.P]

Can someone tell me if this is OK:

Sometimes when I'm coming to traffic lights, when I'm breaking, but still going at around 20mph and not stopped, I put the clutch down, go into neutral, lift my foot off the clutch and then break the car to a hault. So basically, I'm breaking when the car isn't in any gear. Is that OK? Obviously I'm not accelerating or anything, just breaking.

I didn't know if it was OK to do this, so now, I break, and put the clutch down and come to a stop, go into neutral and then lift my foot off the clutch when I've stopped.

Does it matter what I do?

 

[panoz7]

Also, noone yet seems to have mentioned that when you hold the clutch in, the clutch release bearing isnt lubricated, which of course, is a bad thing. Lubrication is a good thing.

That's the reason right there. I'm also suprised that no one else mentioned it. The bearings aren't lubricated when the clutch is engaged which really isn't good for it.

Though, if I'm in a situation where there is potential that I might be rear ended (such as being first at the lights on a dual carriageway for example, or they're no other cars to act as a buffer) then I'll leave it in gear, because I'll want to get out of the doughnuts way.

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding, but this seems kind of silly to me. You're going to escape being rear ended by pulling into an intersection that presumably is busy since you had to stop at it?

When ever I'm at a light I sit with my brakes enaged and the clutch off. If I do get rearended I don't want to be pushed into the intersection or into the car in front of me.

Sometimes when I'm coming to traffic lights, when I'm breaking, but still going at around 20mph and not stopped, I put the clutch down, go into neutral, lift my foot off the clutch and then break the car to a hault. So basically, I'm breaking when the car isn't in any gear. Is that OK? Obviously I'm not accelerating or anything, just breaking.

That's just fine and it won't hurt anything, other then the extra bit of brakes you use up. When I'm slowing down I leave the car in gear for as long as possible so as to take as much advantage of compression braking as possible.

 

[jknight8907]

I've heard it will wear out your "throwout bearing".