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car clutch question
- Thread starter etoiles
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I'd like a 3200 GT (whilst the 4200 might be a better car the rear lights on the 3200 make it worth while). I've see pictures of the MC12 Corsa but I need a road car (and don't have millions of pounds).
If I went for hte Clio, yes it would be a Series 2. The Series 1 has too much of a reputation!
If I went for hte Clio, yes it would be a Series 2. The Series 1 has too much of a reputation!
Holding in the clutch at lights and wherever its not really needed does indeed shorten the life of the clutch. Because there is no lubrication when the clutch is pressed, it has a tendency to 'burn'. If you press the clutch down while in gear and rev the bollocks of your car for a minute or two you will totally spanner your clutch. You will know when it is spannered because giant plumes of smoke will be billowing from the hood of your car, there will be an intense smell of burning and your car wont go anywhere when you release the clutch. In effect you are actually doing this everytime you press the clutch in at the lights and changing gear etc. Albeit at a much slower rate. Try and keep off the clutch as much as possible. Also hard acceleration is not good for the clutch - which reminds me, mine needs replacing. 
iGav said:The correct answer.
I've just had a tommy gander at prices, and its reputation is reflected in its price... they average £11k for a Mk I, which is a lot of money really for a coffin.
There are ones that are less than 18k. Still seems like a lot of money for a second hand Clio, especially one without rear seats or a proper boot
xJulianx said:
It will significantly shorten its life. But will still probably last 5 years or more.
iGav said:It does of course depend on the junction (intersection to you folk).
Ok... makes more sense now. There isn't as much room at most of the intersections around where I live.
iGav said:
Sorry I didn't make this clearer. I down shift into 3rd at around 55 mph and into 2nd at 45 mph. That's one of the first things my dad taught me when I he taught me to drive stick. If anything I shift into those lower gears too early... sometime I get a little nervous that the person behind me won't notice that I'm slowing down so I ride the brakes just enough to get the lights to come on.
Some one else mentioned heel and toeing. Few cars have the appropriate pedal spacing for that. My little mazda's ok for it, but the porsche is much better.... and no, you're not crazy for blipping the throttle when you slow down... why have the manual if you're not going to have fun?
This is just wrong. When you press the clutch (engage) you are releasing the clutch disc from the flywheel making it spin free (no heat). Revving the engine and disengaging the clutch will decrease the life of the clutch but this is totally normal if you have a high performance clutch. What kills a clutch is partially releasing it so there's just enough pressure for friction to heat up. When you release a clutch quickly the amount of time that's spent slipping is very low and thus the chance of burning your clutch is minor. As far as lubrication goes, there is no lubrication on the clutch...ever. So claiming that there's not lubrication on the clutch when you engage the clutch as a cause for concern is just not right.
stuartluff said:Holding in the clutch at lights and wherever its not really needed does indeed shorten the life of the clutch. Because there is no lubrication when the clutch is pressed, it has a tendency to 'burn'. If you press the clutch down while in gear and rev the bollocks of your car for a minute or two you will totally spanner your clutch. You will know when it is spannered because giant plumes of smoke will be billowing from the hood of your car, there will be an intense smell of burning and your car wont go anywhere when you release the clutch. In effect you are actually doing this everytime you press the clutch in at the lights and changing gear etc. Albeit at a much slower rate. Try and keep off the clutch as much as possible. Also hard acceleration is not good for the clutch - which reminds me, mine needs replacing.
Zeke said:
There isn't lubrication on the clutch plates themselves (unless it's a wet plate clutch) but there is lubrication on the release bearings.
Here's the NPR car-talk guys opinion:
http://www.cartalk.com/content/columns/Archive/1995/October/07.html
Agreed, there's grease on the clutch release bearing. From your wording it sounded like you were arguing the clutch gets hot because there's no lubrication when engaged.
panoz7 said:
panoz7 said:
55mph in 3rd and 45mph in 2nd? ARE YOU SHITTING ME. That's disgusting! 30mph into second at the most, you don't want to rev the crap out of your engine!
MalcolmJID said:
Rotary engines had 7000 rpm redlines in the 1970s and were fine with being revved high. Low torque engines tend to be that way. It seems to me that there are a number of 4 cylinder engines out there that have redlines over 7000 rpm.
If the gearing permits, why not enjoy the sound and the rush?
bartelby said:
Which is why you give it a very hefty blip of the throttle between gears
45mph in second sounds plausible, although a little high for my car when slowing. If you are "making progress" then you'll be doing more than this before changing up to third. I often hit the rev limiter in second (which is at around 7400rpm).
MalcolmJID said:
Wow... that's quite a reaction. In my normal daily driver 45 mph in second gear equals around 4600 rpm. That doesn't seem all that outlandish, or dangerous... my car redlines at 7000 rpm. If you blip the throttle while downshifting or let the clutch out real slow it isn’t really doing any harm to the engine.
robbieduncan said:
Exactly. There's certain cars I wouldn't think of doing that in, and others, like mine, which can handle it easilly. My normal car has a tiny high reving four cylinder. My larger car as a larger displacement 6. Both rev freely and are quality engines that are designed to withstand this. When I'm trying to accelerate quickly I usually upshift at around 5500 RPM. I wouldn't want to sustain that for extended amounts of time, but at least in my car the revs drop pretty quickly.
hm both my father and mother always push in the clutch at red lights (which are rather short intervals around here perhaps 30 seconds tops ) and i don't remember that any cars ever need a clutch repaired or replaced, not even on the 280k Citroen, the 250km mazda
the current 13 year old mercedes has a hydraulic clutch so i don't know how that works
i actually learned it that way in driving school as well.. and even thinking about putting it into neutral and applying handbrake in normal red light situation seems rather ridiculous to me (unless it's around some hill/driving upwards)
try doing that with a traffic light which has like 5 seconds of green ... your not gonna make lots of friends with that ... in germany you might end up deaf because of the horns from the back
the current 13 year old mercedes has a hydraulic clutch so i don't know how that works
i actually learned it that way in driving school as well.. and even thinking about putting it into neutral and applying handbrake in normal red light situation seems rather ridiculous to me (unless it's around some hill/driving upwards)
try doing that with a traffic light which has like 5 seconds of green ... your not gonna make lots of friends with that ... in germany you might end up deaf because of the horns from the back
panoz7 said:
You do know that engine breaking like that is not the best for the engine. you are causing the engine to rev up quite a bit and it is not the easies thing on the clutch.
Also using the engine to going into the gears like that also increases the chances of you causing you drive wheels to lock up. Reason being is you tires only have so much traction and can only break so much. Engine breaking pushes it to that point eariler and can cause the drive wheels to lock up before the non drive wheels get even close causing an increase in your stopping distance since you can not max out all 4 tires at the same time.
Now engine breaking does increase the life span of your brakes because some of the braking load is put on to the engine and taken off the brakes. I personally dont use much engine braking in my car. I tend to leave the car in what ever gear it was last in until I drop to about 20-30 mph at which point I push in the clutch and put the car in neutral. Most of the time that is 6th gear and also I might like to point out the load on the tranny or the engine is fine (heck it a lighter load on the tranny being in 6th over a lower gear and the engine is still above idle speed.)
Rodimus Prime said:
I really don't see how this is hurting the clutch at all. If I match the engine speed with the speed I'm traveling it should be fine on the clutch. It probably does wear the engine a little, but it's got to be alot less then hard acceleration.
I understand the locking of the wheels thing. I am somewhat amazed at the common misconception that engine braking will allow the car to slow down quicker. You're right, it all comes down to the available grip of the tires. On that note, I only do this downshifting thing when I'm coming to a stop light. When I'm panic stopping I practice the "both feet to the floor" method and stomp on the clutch and brakes at the same time.
I also should note that I'm not too concerned with the wear and tear on my car. I honestly can't imagine doing something like riding the clutch, which causes unnecessarily wear, but if it's for the sake of fun, which is why I got the car I did in the first place, then I'm more than willing to sacrifice some of the life of the car in exchange for some enjoyment.
This is the recommended way of coming to a stop (aside from the coasting part) by manufacturers (at least those I've seen the manuals to).
Rodimus Prime said:
devilot said:My bf was in an auto tech program for awhile as was his buddy-- all of their teachers/ instructors/ co-workers (the friend works at a shop) all say it's a BIG NO-NO to keep the clutch in when you don't need to.
Premature wear.
At that particular shop, the friend saw an older woman come in with a completely shot clutch and assorted other parts. The other employees were sort of laughing because she apparently goes through a new clutch every year due to poor driving habits (including keeping the clutch in)!
6 years here and I just notice it start to slip occasionally. then again my var is almost 17 years old on the original clutch