Cassette tape to Mac transfer

[pauljessop]

I hope someone can help me please with this puzzling thing. I'm transferring audio from old cassettes to my Mac. I've connected the cassette player to the Mac via a jack to jack cable from the earphone output on the cassette deck, through a 3.5 Jack to USB C adapter into the USB C socket on the Mac. Using Audacity to record, it transfers the audio on the cassette very successfully. However, while transferring, the Music app starts up and plays random tracks from my music library. Sometimes it changes track every two seconds, then it stops for a few minutes, then starts up again with random tracks. It doesn't affect the recording, so it's not a great problem, but it's just very strange!

Thanks
Paul

 

[pauljessop]

I hope someone can help me please with this puzzling thing. I'm transferring audio from old cassettes to my Mac. I've connected the cassette player to the Mac via a jack to jack cable from the earphone output on the cassette deck, through a 3.5 Jack to USB C adapter into the USB C socket on the Mac. Using Audacity to record, it transfers the audio on the cassette very successfully. However, while transferring, the Music app starts up and plays random tracks from my music library. Sometimes it changes track every two seconds, then it stops for a few minutes, then starts up again with random tracks. It doesn't affect the recording, so it's not a great problem, but it's just very strange!

Thanks
Paul

Oh, and at first it was setting Siri going until I turned Siri off.

 

[tonmischa]

There are different types of 3.5 jacks. (google "trs vs trrs jacks")
trs carries a stereo signal, trrs carries a stereo and a mic signal. Sometimes the mic signal can also carry "control signals" (like pause/play, forward, reverse). The original cable airpods did that for example.
Depending on your type of 3.5 jack to USB adapter, the incoming music signal might be misinterpreted as a control signal for the "Music app".

 

[bradman83]

There are different types of 3.5 jacks. (google "trs vs trrs jacks")
trs carries a stereo signal, trrs carries a stereo and a mic signal. Sometimes the mic signal can also carry "control signals" (like pause/play, forward, reverse). The original cable airpods did that for example.
Depending on your type of 3.5 jack to USB adapter, the incoming music signal might be misinterpreted as a control signal for the "Music app".

To piggyback off of this, TRS and TRRS stand for "tip ring sleeve" and "tip ring ring sleeve." A 3.5mm jack is broken into segments, ranging from a single shaft segment for mono audio to multiple segments for stereo + microphone and/or controls.

You can tell what kind of cable you have by the number of rings (tip ring + shaft ring). If your USB-C to 3.5mm cable has 3 rings that means it's a TRRS cable and, as the previous poster said, could be relaying control signals to the Mac. You may need to return it and find a cable that's TRS only.

 

[tonmischa]

If your USB-C to 3.5mm cable has 3 rings that means it's a TRRS cable and, as the previous poster said, could be relaying control signals to the Mac. You may need to return it and find a cable that's TRS only.

To be honest: My suspicion is, that he has the correct cable (TRS), but his adapter is built for a TRRS cable. So the sleeve of the TRS is triggering the second "R" of the TRRS input.
(If the adapter were built for TRS only, it would not relay ANY control signals to the Mac.)

 

[MarkC426]

You may be better with one of these.

USB Cassette-to-MP3 Converter Capture, Cassette Converter Portable Digital Tape Player Captures Stereo Audio Cassette/Tape to PC MP3 Switcher Converter with Headphone

USB Cassette-to-MP3 Converter Capture, Cassette Converter Portable Digital Tape Player Captures Stereo Audio Cassette/Tape to PC MP3 Switcher Converter with Headphone

www.amazon.co.uk

I have one (bought years ago), but have still never got round to using it…
Also Garageband works well for recording.

 

[pauljessop]

To be honest: My suspicion is, that he has the correct cable (TRS), but his adapter is built for a TRRS cable. So the sleeve of the TRS is triggering the second "R" of the TRRS input.
(If the adapter were built for TRS only, it would not relay ANY control signals to the Mac.)

Thanks everyone for your replies. I understand better now. The spec on the adapter says it's TRRS and the cable I'm using is TRS. However, looking at Bradman83's diagram, if I used a TRS only adapter, then I presume I wouldn't get the mic signal going into the USB C plug?
Do you know if there's a setting that stops the Music app from being triggered to start by these mic signals?

 

[Fishrrman]

OP wrote:
"Do you know if there's a setting that stops the Music app from being triggered to start by these mic signals?"

Yes.
There IS something that will do this for you.

It's an app/system setting called "RCDefaultApp".
Get it here:

Rubicode - RCDefaultApp

It's free.

It's on the old side, but it still works.

I suggest that you give it a try.

 

[pauljessop]

OP wrote:
"Do you know if there's a setting that stops the Music app from being triggered to start by these mic signals?"

Yes.
There IS something that will do this for you.

It's an app/system setting called "RCDefaultApp".
Get it here:

Rubicode - RCDefaultApp

It's free.

It's on the old side, but it still works.

I suggest that you give it a try.

Hi, thank you for the suggestion. I've downloaded RCDefaultApp.prefPane and added it to the library/preferencepanes as instructed. Do you know what settings in Default App would achieve what I need please, as I haven't a clue! Is it something to do with the Uniform Type Identifier?

 

[Fishrrman]

What KIND of audio file is being created as you record from the cassette?

By that, I mean is it an aiff, mp3, something else?

Find out what the file format is.
Then...

Open Default Apps and go to the "Apps" pane.
Scroll down to "Music".
Click on it to select it, then look at the "list on the right".
Scroll down to see if the file format is listed AND CHECKED to be something that Music will open automatically.
When you find that, UNCHECK it.

See if that works.

I don't use the "Music.app" myself, at all.

 

[pauljessop]

What KIND of audio file is being created as you record from the cassette?

By that, I mean is it an aiff, mp3, something else?

Find out what the file format is.
Then...

Open Default Apps and go to the "Apps" pane.
Scroll down to "Music".
Click on it to select it, then look at the "list on the right".
Scroll down to see if the file format is listed AND CHECKED to be something that Music will open automatically.
When you find that, UNCHECK it.

See if that works.

I don't use the "Music.app" myself, at all.

It's an AUP3 Audacity project file. I've checked the list under Music and AUP3 isn't listed. Also tried with GarageBand and the same thing happens.
However, it gets stranger: Without any recording app running at all, so presumably no audio file being created, but just running the tape in the deck, the Music app starts up. So I've no idea how the mic input acting as a control signal is triggering the Music app to start up. I'm sure there must be a logical explanation somewhere.
I appreciate your help and any further ideas you have.
Thanks
Paul

 

[tonmischa]

if I used a TRS only adapter, then I presume I wouldn't get the mic signal going into the USB C plug?

Correct. At the moment the sleeve of the TRS plug (which carries the electric ground) is pressing against the second R of the TRRS input (which expects a Mic signal).
So the electric current from the electric ground is (falsely) understood as a Mic signal.
This Mic signal can not only carry sound, but also carry control signals from button presses (for example from the Cable Airpods.) Everytime you press a button on these things, a sound - outside of the human hearing range - is sent to the iPhone or Mac and interpreted as "louder", "softer", "play/pause".

So I've no idea how the mic input acting as a control signal is triggering the Music app to start up.

Basically: Your Mac THINKS that you have cable Airpods connected to the TRRS adapter. And it THINKS that you are pressing buttons on your Airpods. Which - in the typical Apple way - brings up the Music app.

As far as I can see there is no way to stop the Music app from being triggered.
There is one hack for an iPhone, but I am pretty sure that this can not be reproduced for your situation.

If you use a "proper" audio interface to record your cassettes this will not happen anymore. (Look at M-Audio M-Track Solo, €44 at amazon). Don't use the earphone out, but the Line Outputs on your Tape Deck. Much better Signal-to-Noise-Ratio.
If this investment is too steep for you and if you are satisfied with the result in Audacity, then I would simply ignore the Music app's behavior.

Also: Please ignore fisherman's advise. This has nothing to do with "Default Apps".

Good luck from a fellow sound engineer!

 

[Fishrrman]

Again, in RCDefaults, try going to the "media" panel.
Now... UNCHECK everything.

No promises.

 

[pauljessop]

Correct. At the moment the sleeve of the TRS plug (which carries the electric ground) is pressing against the second R of the TRRS input (which expects a Mic signal).
So the electric current from the electric ground is (falsely) understood as a Mic signal.
This Mic signal can not only carry sound, but also carry control signals from button presses (for example from the Cable Airpods.) Everytime you press a button on these things, a sound - outside of the human hearing range - is sent to the iPhone or Mac and interpreted as "louder", "softer", "play/pause".


Basically: Your Mac THINKS that you have cable Airpods connected to the TRRS adapter. And it THINKS that you are pressing buttons on your Airpods. Which - in the typical Apple way - brings up the Music app.

As far as I can see there is no way to stop the Music app from being triggered.
There is one hack for an iPhone, but I am pretty sure that this can not be reproduced for your situation.

If you use a "proper" audio interface to record your cassettes this will not happen anymore. (Look at M-Audio M-Track Solo, €44 at amazon). Don't use the earphone out, but the Line Outputs on your Tape Deck. Much better Signal-to-Noise-Ratio.
If this investment is too steep for you and if you are satisfied with the result in Audacity, then I would simply ignore the Music app's behavior.

Also: Please ignore fisherman's advise. This has nothing to do with "Default Apps".

Good luck from a fellow sound engineer!

Ah ok, so like on the iPhone, the Music app is started even if it's not already running.

I'm still slightly puzzled though, despite your very helpful explanation. So thank you for your patience!
FYI the adapter I've got is CTIA compatible not OMTP, so the mic signal is picked up from the S ring not the 2nd R.

So, the sound is transmitted from the cassette deck along the TR part of the TRS cable, as it would be for earphones. The mic signal at the point of male TRS jack / female TRRS jack connection would be grounded as you described, so there would be no signal present. Does the chip inside the adapter do something clever then by seeing that there is no signal on the mic input but there is on the TR input? Does it then put this TR signal onto the USB C output of the adapter?

 

[lostless]

best way is to get a USB sound device that has RCA in and ignore the whole 3.5mm jack in. Amazon has them under many brand names but are all the same thing. I got one that has RCA and a 3.5mm jack built in like the picture. Does it have the greatest ADC in it? probably not, but it sounds just fine.

 

[olavsu1]

I would use a Behringer U-Control UCA222 sound card and some SONY cassette players for this.

 

[tonmischa]

FYI the adapter I've got is CTIA compatible not OMTP, so the mic signal is picked up from the S ring not the 2nd R.

Does not matter in this case. The mic signal is still picked up from the sleeve of the male TRS plug.

The mic signal at the point of male TRS jack / female TRRS jack connection would be grounded as you described, so there would be no signal present.

One might think so. But I suspect, there IS some kind of signal there. Maybe some hum, maybe some interference from nearby power cables, maybe some crosstalk from the audio signal.
These "dirty" signals are your culprit.

I agree with @MarkC426 , @lostless and @olavsu1 to choose a better suited audio interface for this task. (Depending on how many tapes you are digitizing and depending on your expextations of audio quality.)
And definitely use the line outputs (RCA jacks)!

 

[MajorFubar]

You may be better with one of these.

USB Cassette-to-MP3 Converter Capture, Cassette Converter Portable Digital Tape Player Captures Stereo Audio Cassette/Tape to PC MP3 Switcher Converter with Headphone

USB Cassette-to-MP3 Converter Capture, Cassette Converter Portable Digital Tape Player Captures Stereo Audio Cassette/Tape to PC MP3 Switcher Converter with Headphone

www.amazon.co.uk

I have one (bought years ago), but have still never got round to using it…
Also Garageband works well for recording.

Don't bother. They're absolute sh-t.

With regards to the original question which I apologise for responding late, to give you a better answer we really need to know what cassette player you are using to play back. You said that you'll be using the headphone output: are you using some kind of Walkman-style portable? If you are, but you have the opinion to use the RCA outputs on a proper cassette deck instead, use those / that. The results will be better.

You also need at least a half decent audio interface, such as the Behringer UCA202/222. The devices that are basically a cable with USB at one end and either a jack or RCA sockets at the other, are also absolute sh-t and should be avoided.

 

[pauljessop]

Thanks again for all your replies. I have a couple of tape players, one that I used to use as data input to an Acorn Electron back last century, with a DIN and earphone output and a Sony with only an earphone output.
Improving the sound quality with Audacity has been reasonably successful; I just have to keep the volume level low on the player. Even with a poor recording of the kids when they were opening presents at Christmas back in 1993, it cleaned up well. Great memories.
The Behringer U-Control UCA222 sounds like a good solution thanks, and I already have a jack to RCA splitter and USB A to USB C converter.

 

[pauljessop]

Again, in RCDefaults, try going to the "media" panel.
Now... UNCHECK everything.

No promises.

Hi, thanks for your perseverance! The checked items are greyed out, so seem to be non-adjustable. Even if I check the section header they stay greyed out.
I think I'll just need to separate out the audio into the correct routes by using a device like the Behringer U-Control UCA222 as recommended by other posters.

 

[MajorFubar]

Thanks again for all your replies. I have a couple of tape players, one that I used to use as data input to an Acorn Electron back last century, with a DIN and earphone output and a Sony with only an earphone output.

My choice would be to use a DIN to RCA cable into the Input of a Behringer 202/222. On a DIN to RCA cable there's obviously 4 RCAs: white, yellow, red and black. Two are in, two are out. But a mono cassette recorder will probably only have three pins of the DIN wired: one for record, one for replay (shared ground is the third pin). I think it's the yellow one you need, but hey 1:4 chance, just juggle them around until you find the right one.

 

[ignatius345]

However, while transferring, the Music app starts up and plays random tracks from my music library. Sometimes it changes track every two seconds, then it stops for a few minutes, then starts up again with random tracks. It doesn't affect the recording, so it's not a great problem, but it's just very strange!

My hunch is that your end files are being output by Audacity and then being opened automatically with the default app which is the Music app. Then, maybe, the Music app is just playing something random because it's not a great app.

 

[pauljessop]

My hunch is that your end files are being output by Audacity and then being opened automatically with the default app which is the Music app. Then, maybe, the Music app is just playing something random because it's not a great app.

It happens even when Audacity is not open. Just playing the tape starts up the Music app with no recoding app running.

 

[ignatius345]

It happens even when Audacity is not open. Just playing the tape starts up the Music app with no recoding app running.

Ah, sorry, missed your previous post about this. Very weird issue. Not sure why the Music app thinks it should start up when a device like this is connected.

 

[lostless]

Ah, sorry, missed your previous post about this. Very weird issue. Not sure why the Music app thinks it should start up when a device like this is connected.

It’s normal. When you press “play” on a wired set or Bluetooth headphones, Mac’s will open the music app to play music. The device they are using is getting false “play, skip track, pause, etc” signals from hows it’s connected.