Cassini finds WATER!

[unixfool]

In an ideal world, such as announcement of life on other planets shouldn't be withheld because of religous reasons. Religion must adapt.

If such an announcement was made, the religious freaks would just point out their demons ( if intelligent ), or something stupid like that, whilst reading out a passage from the bible.

Unfortunately, religion has way too much influence on the world.

I don't think anyone has withheld information based on religious issues. I was just saying that 1) not all people of religion have that train of thought, and 2) there are some pretty freaky non-believers out there.

The need to be fair and balanced, no matter your belief or lack of, is key here.

Whether or not there is intelligent life out there, we still have Earth issues to deal with. Discovery of bacteria on some planet won't change our current issues.

 

[whooleytoo]

There are certainly a good amount of NON-religious people that don't believe in extra-terrestrial life, too.

And a lot of religious folk who do.

 

[RamSlack]

Water suggests life?

What is with the assumption that life can only exist on other planets where water exists? In my thinking, it would be awfully "close minded" to assume that life can only exists with the presence of water. I am among those that believe that life DOES exists elsewhere and that this life probably exists in another form that may not be water based.

Just my "two cents".

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

With liquid water comes life, skip the religion spin spewing. This is science at its best.

What we need to do now is get a probe to that spot but with chemical rockets and a screwed up Nasa it may be 20 years before we know whats in that water. They just wont let go of shuttle even if it means 25 years of nothing,,,,and without Nuclear powered spacecraft planetary travel is pure BullStink dreams. Humans cant make 2 yr plus missions to mars let alone a Saturn run. We need a real spacecraft not earth launched chemical garbage. We are wasting time with Apollo redo. Build a real spacecraft.

Throw away shuttle and lets build a science craft that stays in space and lets start exploring,instead we get more shuttle and apollo redo making sure we get another 25 years of.............Nasa stagnation.

 

[~Shard~]

Other life exists out there. Lots of it. It is more intelligent than us and has visited us in the past, but has not made itself public. We as a human race are simply not ready and civilized enough yet for that encounter. We are primitive and have much to learn.

I don't know why people always find the concept of aliens so unbelievable, far-fetched and incredible. Of course there is life out there. Duh.

 

[unixfool]

Other life exists out there. Lots of it. It is more intelligent than us and has visited us in the past, but has not made itself public. We as a human race are simply not ready and civilized enough yet for that encounter. We are primitive and have much to learn.

I don't know why people always find the concept of aliens so unbelievable, far-fetched and incredible. Of course there is life out there. Duh.

That's a bit TOO Star Trek-ish for my tastes

 

[~Shard~]

That's a bit TOO Star Trek-ish for my tastes

Reality is too Star Trek-ish for you? That's unfortunate...

 

[unixfool]

Reality is too Star Trek-ish for you? That's unfortunate...

When I see an ET, I'll believe it

 

[~Shard~]

When I see an ET, I'll believe it

Gotcha - unless you have physical proof of something and see it with your own two eyes, you won't believe it to be true. Nice to see so many people out there with open minds.

 

[unixfool]

Gotcha - unless you have physical proof of something and see it with your own two eyes, you won't believe it to be true. Nice to see so many people out there with open minds.

I'm a scientist of sorts. I'm an IT security consultant. I believe in lots of things, I theorize, I dream...just as anyone else, but I draw the line at ET until I can absolutely see proof. Oh, I believe life is out there, but not in rocketships that visit Earth and hide because they think we're not worthy yet. I believe there's intelligent life out there but I certainly believe that they don't know about Earth.

 

[Josh]

I'll give it another 20-25 years before absolute, undeniable, proof surfaces.

The odds are far more in favor of life elsewhere than they are against it.

It's only a matter of time before we find it, or it finds us.

Then, of course there is always the possibility that such things are already known (Area 51, etc). This wouldn't surprise me in the least. After all, it's not like our government hasn't with-held/hidden the truth before.

On a similar train of thought, I'm pretty sure the moon landing was hoaxed as well. Not because of all the talk of "stage" props and the discussions on visibility of the stars or anything. But putting a man on the moon today seems like an impossible, if not highly difficult task for NASA. If it's so difficult now, there's no way a flawless landing occured then.

 

[stubeeef]

I don't know what is more remarkable, Cassini finding water, or that this thread has not started talking about homosexuals and all the issues there.

How did this get to be about religion and it's seeming inflexability?

Look we sent out a probe and found water in a dark place in our solar system! That is cool!

On a similar train of thought, I'm pretty sure the moon landing was hoaxed as well. Not because of all the talk of "stage" props and the discussions on visibility of the stars or anything. But putting a man on the moon today seems like an impossible, if not highly difficult task for NASA. If it's so difficult now, there's no way a flawless landing occured then.

Well we can NO longer manufacture a Battle ship with the same hulls as in WWII! We have lost that infrasturcture. There are a lot of things we have "tinkled" away, and many cost alot to get the first time,the second time won't be cheaper.

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

Other life exists out there. Lots of it. It is more intelligent than us and has visited us in the past, but has not made itself public. We as a human race are simply not ready and civilized enough yet for that encounter. We are primitive and have much to learn.

I don't know why people always find the concept of aliens so unbelievable, far-fetched and incredible. Of course there is life out there. Duh.

I agree with your view, we know for sure that for some very odd reasons the very subject of UFO has been twisted by many branches of our Govt for over 50 years under the guise of :National Security" and does so even today. I agree we are much to primitive, we still cant live with each other,murder,wars,killings everyday by the pathetic greedy animal man. Maybe in another million or so we will be ready. Religions would go nuts if the U.S. govt released the facts that we have been visited and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

 

[blackfox]

Other life exists out there. Lots of it. It is more intelligent than us and has visited us in the past, but has not made itself public. We as a human race are simply not ready and civilized enough yet for that encounter. We are primitive and have much to learn.

I don't know why people always find the concept of aliens so unbelievable, far-fetched and incredible. Of course there is life out there. Duh.

The thing is that we haven't been able to find any indirect proof of intelligent life anywhere, as measured by "waste heat" or "radio communications".

By the Second Law of Thermodynamics, any advanced civilization should generate waste heat, as their energy expenditures would be enormous and a % of this would leak of and be detected by our instruments.

As for Radio waves, we have mastered the art of radio and television in the past 50 years, so there is a radius of radio waves surrounding our planet moving outward. Any planet which finds itself within this ever-expanding sphere should be able to detect that we have intelligent life. Likewise, it seems likely that any advance intelligent life would be producing copious amounts of electromagnetic radiation that we should be able to detect - but no dice so far.

OTOH, the odds for intelligent life even in our galaxy are staggering, using a crude method of estimation:

Our galaxy contains about 200 billion stars. Say 10% of these are yellow stars like our sun, and that 10% of those have planets orbiting them, and 10% of those have earth-like planets with atmospheres compatible with life, and 10% of those have some form of life, and 10% of those have intelligent life.

This means 1 millionth of the two billion stars will probably have some form of intelligent life. That is 200,000 planets. Just in our Galaxy.

Which makes the fact that we can't find them all the more perplexing...

 

[Stella]

Oh, I wasn't aiming those comments are you.

I hope information hasn't been held for religous reasons.. totally agree with below:

I don't think anyone has withheld information based on religious issues. I was just saying that 1) not all people of religion have that train of thought, and 2) there are some pretty freaky non-believers out there.

The need to be fair and balanced, no matter your belief or lack of, is key here.

Whether or not there is intelligent life out there, we still have Earth issues to deal with. Discovery of bacteria on some planet won't change our current issues.

---

I'm in no doubt that we'll eventually find that the universe in teaming with intelligent life, in all corners of this galaxy, and beyond.

I cannot believe for one minute that life is rare. At one point scientists weren't sure there were other planets around other suns.. and yet they existed.

Shard has it absolutely spot on.

 

[~Shard~]

I'm a scientist of sorts. I'm an IT security consultant. I believe in lots of things, I theorize, I dream...just as anyone else, but I draw the line at ET until I can absolutely see proof. Oh, I believe life is out there, but not in rocketships that visit Earth and hide because they think we're not worthy yet. I believe there's intelligent life out there but I certainly believe that they don't know about Earth.

I performed Top Secret contract work for the CIA and Pentagon. If you have an open mind and would like to learn more about the simple "proof" I was exposed to, feel free to PM me. If you are a skeptic however, don't waste either of our time.

Edit: Same goes for you DHM...

 

[unixfool]

I performed Top Secret contract work for the CIA and Pentagon. If you have an open mind and would like to learn more about the simple "proof" I was exposed to, feel free to PM me. If you are a skeptic however, don't waste either of our time.

Edit: Same goes for you DHM...

Pfft, I was an intelligence analyst for 10 yrs. I also was a nuclear weapons specialist. Learning what I did, I can assure you that my mind is quite open. I'm no skeptic...I do remember posting a few minutes ago that I believe there is life out there. Belief and proof of concept are two different things. I believe, sure, but certainly not to the extent that you do. My offer still stands, though...got proof?

 

[Dont Hurt Me]

They kicked us off the moon for 50 yrs?

 

[Josh]

The thing is that we haven't been able to find any indirect proof of intelligent life anywhere, as measured by "waste heat" or "radio communications".

By the Second Law of Thermodynamics, any advanced civilization should generate waste heat, as their energy expenditures would be enormous and a % of this would leak of and be detected by our instruments.

As for Radio waves, we have mastered the art of radio and television in the past 50 years, so there is a radius of radio waves surrounding our planet moving outward. Any planet which finds itself within this ever-expanding sphere should be able to detect that we have intelligent life. Likewise, it seems likely that any advance intelligent life would be producing copious amounts of electromagnetic radiation that we should be able to detect - but no dice so far.

OTOH, the odds for intelligent life even in our galaxy are staggering, using a crude method of estimation:

Our galaxy contains about 200 billion stars. Say 10% of these are yellow stars like our sun, and that 10% of those have planets orbiting them, and 10% of those have earth-like planets with atmospheres compatible with life, and 10% of those have some form of life, and 10% of those have intelligent life.

This means 1 millionth of the two billion stars will probably have some form of intelligent life. That is 200,000 planets. Just in our Galaxy.

Which makes the fact that we can't find them all the more perplexing...

Well, if we're talking about intelligent life more advanced than our own, it's very likely they have developed more effecient technology that is not going to generate so much waste, and reuse it instead.

And, I think an estimate of 10% of Earth-like planets having intelligent life is a bit high.

It takes a very, very long time for life to evolve into a highly intelligent form. It also takes a lot of luck.

We are very lucky that Earth, and us, are still around. We have defied so much probability to last thing long, yet here we are.

Galaxies are more densely populated with objects (planets, moons, asterioids, other debris) towards their center. The further you get from the center, the space is less dense with objects.

Using the density, or amount, of objects at a similar radius to the center of the galaxy as ours, scientists have estimated a planet of our size is very likely to get hit by a cataclysmic impact (one capable of wiping out human life) about every 20 million years.

The last time we've been hit by such an impact was 65 million years ago. Statistically speaking, we should have experienced similar impacts 3 times by now.

Our luck might eventually run out, but this is also a threat to other planets out there. As we stand, life on our planet is not intelligent enough to figure out and create spaceships capable of taking the passengers extremely far distances.

For life to evolve to that point, it would take a very, very long time. That's a lot of luck to have, among other factors, and the number of civilizations making it that far, while I do believe they exist, has to be incredibly low.

 

[whooleytoo]

Pfft, I was an intelligence analyst for 10 yrs. I also was a nuclear weapons specialist. Learning what I did, I can assure you that my mind is quite open. I'm no skeptic...I do remember posting a few minutes ago that I believe there is life out there. Belief and proof of concept are two different things. I believe, sure, but certainly not to the extent that you do. My offer still stands, though...got proof?

Bah.. I pwn you both.

I am an alien. And I think, therefore I am, thus proving I exist. I win, show me the money. That thing with the anal probes was never proven. Quick, someone take my photo!

 

[Stella]

I'm a scientist of sorts. I'm an IT security consultant. I believe in lots of things, I theorize, I dream...just as anyone else, but I draw the line at ET until I can absolutely see proof. Oh, I believe life is out there, but not in rocketships that visit Earth and hide because they think we're not worthy yet. I believe there's intelligent life out there but I certainly believe that they don't know about Earth.

It could be because we are very uninteresting... life is so common that Earth is a very regular planet...

Do you examine every ant you see? Once you've seen one, you've seen them all.

It was only very recently that humans stopped thinking it was impossible to get anything out of earths atmosphere. Now, we know we can. What is human technology going to be like in 50, 100, 150 years time?

I get frustrated about the lack of progress in space. Whoopie - humans orbit the earth... and not much else ( human exploration ), these days.

 

[~Shard~]

Pfft, I was an intelligence analyst for 10 yrs. I also was a nuclear weapons specialist. Learning what I did, I can assure you that my mind is quite open. I'm no skeptic...I do remember posting a few minutes ago that I believe there is life out there. Belief and proof of concept are two different things. I believe, sure, but certainly not to the extent that you do. My offer still stands, though...got proof?

No need to "pfft", I was simply stating the facts. I have been exposed to some interesting things, some of which I witnessed firsthand. That was my proof. That was all I was saying. I sincerely apologize if I came across as confrontational with my last post, as I was not questioning whether you believed or not. My comment about, "If you are a skeptic however, don't waste either of our time" was simply a statement, not an accusation.

"For those who do not believe, no proof is enough. For those who do believe, no proof is necessary."

 

[blackfox]

Well, if we're talking about intelligent life more advanced than our own, it's very likely they have developed more effecient technology that is not going to generate so much waste, and reuse it instead.

That is true, but ending on where they are in relation to us, we might still find evidence of them when they were less advanced, and unable to mask their presence.

As an aside, I find it a horrible thought to think that sometime, somewhere, some intelligent life might find "American Idol" in our morass of radio/television waves. Just think, we might have advanced hundreds of years, but an alien civilization migth come and destroy us just as a matter of taste...

And, I think an estimate of 10% of Earth-like planets having intelligent life is a bit high.

Well, I did say it was crude - the point remains that it there is a large probability.

It takes a very, very long time for life to evolve into a highly intelligent form. It also takes a lot of luck.

We are very lucky that Earth, and us, are still around. We have defied so much probability to last thing long, yet here we are.

Galaxies are more densely populated with objects (planets, moons, asterioids, other debris) towards their center. The further you get from the center, the space is less dense with objects.

Using the density, or amount, of objects at a similar radius to the center of the galaxy as ours, scientists have estimated a planet of our size is very likely to get hit by a cataclysmic impact (one capable of wiping out human life) about every 20 million years.

The last time we've been hit by such an impact was 65 million years ago. Statistically speaking, we should have experienced similar impacts 3 times by now.

Our luck might eventually run out, but this is also a threat to other planets out there. As we stand, life on our planet is not intelligent enough to figure out and create spaceships capable of taking the passengers extremely far distances.

For life to evolve to that point, it would take a very, very long time. That's a lot of luck to have, among other factors, and the number of civilizations making it that far, while I do believe they exist, has to be incredibly low.

Well, the other theory of why we cannot find evidence of intelligent life is a matter of time. The liklihood of intelligent life says nothing about when that might come about. We have had intelligent life here on Earth for only about 1 million years, a blink in the Cosmic time-scale. It is likely that many civilizations have come and gone, or haven't even begun yet.

It is worth pointing out that a really advanced civilization would be able to defend itself from most natural-occurring disasters (such as meteors). It is also likely that we would be very boring to such a civilization.

Which is a good thing too - British Civilization was only about a century ahead of many of the civilizations it conquered (such as Indian and African). The Spanish were several centuries ahead of the Aztecs in just a few fields - such as warships and gunpowder - and decimated and enslaved an otherwise advanced civilization.

So we should hope we are left alone.

 

[~Shard~]

Which is a good thing too - British Civilization was only about a century ahead of many of the civilizations it conquered (such as Indian and African). The Spanish were several centuries ahead of the Aztecs in just a few fields - such as warships and gunpowder - and decimated and enslaved an otherwise advanced civilization.

So we should hope we are left alone.

One could argue though that if an alien civilization is truly advanced, it would be wise enough to see that there is no need for violence, conquering, war, etc. and would not engage in such activities. They would be smart enough and "know better". This is one of the reasons why we humans are still primitive in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Josh]

One could argue though that if an alien civilization is truly advanced, it would be wise enough to see that there is no need for violence, conquering, war, etc. and would not engage in such activities. They would be smart enough and "know better". This is one of the reasons why we humans are still primitive in the grand scheme of things.

That's a good point.

And part of their intelligence may be in seeing that we are not. They might realize that, fail as we would, we might try to harm them and/or harm ourselves in the process.