My 860 SSD (1TB - on a PCIe card) has been running with two containers for years - currently one has Catalina and one has Monterey (upgraded from Big Sur). I moved my Mojave off the 860 to another drive when I installed Big Sur.
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Caution! Troubles with 870 evo drives on cMP 5,1 !
- Thread starter wrianwolfsn
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8364R4
macrumors newbie
OK - thanks!
The questions were targeted to the following topics in particular:
- using SATA drives (860/850 EVO) with Mojave and Apple's "new" Filesystem APFS whether there are troubles expected when TRIM is enabled? I read some rumors about that... (unfortunatelly I have to use SATA SSDs as my PCIe slots are used for other cards)
- basically, if TRIM is disabled (with the above-mentioned configuration) premature failure of the drives or low performance is typically expected?
- thus, if it will be better anywey to run Mojave with HFS and TRIM enabled?
The questions were targeted to the following topics in particular:
- using SATA drives (860/850 EVO) with Mojave and Apple's "new" Filesystem APFS whether there are troubles expected when TRIM is enabled? I read some rumors about that... (unfortunatelly I have to use SATA SSDs as my PCIe slots are used for other cards)
- basically, if TRIM is disabled (with the above-mentioned configuration) premature failure of the drives or low performance is typically expected?
- thus, if it will be better anywey to run Mojave with HFS and TRIM enabled?
I apologize as I forgot to mention that my 860 is APFS and I have TRIM enabled. I don't pretend to understand the subtleties of TRIM being enabled or not but prefer to have it enabled.
I haven't had any issues with my 860 so I assume that TRIM being enabled with APFS on that drive is fine. I do use mine in a PCIe slot but other than speed I don't see why it would be different in one of the internal drive slots. I do have an old Crucial M4 SSD in one of my CD slots as all my internal SATA slots are taken by spinning drives.
MarkC426
macrumors 601
Sorry yes, Mac Sata bay, Mojave, APFS, Trim enabled.
Both drives are Mojave (one is a clone).
What are the specific issues you have read about...?
Alpha Centauri
macrumors 68000
Been running a TRIM enabled 850 1TB (APFS) for years w/out problems, albeit in an 5,3 MBP with Catalina. The 870 2TB was a complete disaster though and I had to return the drive after exhausting all options with fault finding.
BLEH got this drive on sale at Microcenter to use as a bootable clone for my 5,1. Obviously running into the same issues as everyone on here. I just reformatted the 870 QVO to be Mac OS Extended (Journaled) and I am just going to run it as a backup with CCC (HOPEFULLY)
8364R4
macrumors newbie
Great news. Thanks for all those comments!
There's a great article about the interaction of APFS und TRIM : Caring for SSDs: TRIM, wear levelling and APFS
I decided not to enable TRIM (on Mojave/APFS). It seems to be unlikely that issues will come up with recent SSDs, as they manage wear leveling by them self good enough and the implementation of the TRIM command under APFS/macOS is not very well known.
Regarding the "870-disappeard-after-warm-boot" issue I contacted the Samsung support and they concluded as follows: "860 EVO and 870 EVO has different controller, what shouldn't be the issue, because Samsung 870 EVO is compatible with SATA III, II and I.
Today we tested the 870 EVO on SATA for a warm boot and it works fine on our system. Unfortunately we don't have the same system as you, in which case we can't verify if the problem is with the older generation Intel Core or with the SATA connector."
Not very helpful, but thought to share it here.
If I get new findings I will post it here.
It's mostly about slow boot times. I found also a report of a SATA drive having this issue. But it seems to happen or not- depending the particular configuration.
There's a great article about the interaction of APFS und TRIM : Caring for SSDs: TRIM, wear levelling and APFS
I decided not to enable TRIM (on Mojave/APFS). It seems to be unlikely that issues will come up with recent SSDs, as they manage wear leveling by them self good enough and the implementation of the TRIM command under APFS/macOS is not very well known.
Regarding the "870-disappeard-after-warm-boot" issue I contacted the Samsung support and they concluded as follows: "860 EVO and 870 EVO has different controller, what shouldn't be the issue, because Samsung 870 EVO is compatible with SATA III, II and I.
Today we tested the 870 EVO on SATA for a warm boot and it works fine on our system. Unfortunately we don't have the same system as you, in which case we can't verify if the problem is with the older generation Intel Core or with the SATA connector."
Not very helpful, but thought to share it here.
If I get new findings I will post it here.
MarkC426
macrumors 601
Revisiting this for anyone else who might try the firmware update:
For the Mac Pro 5,1 - the firmware update for the 870 Evo works easily enough using the instructions provided but warm boots / restart still gives the forbidden symbol so it's not really any use. The firmware updated fine but doesn't fix the issue.
I used the Mac ISO SVT02B6Q on a 1TB SSD 870 EVO.
So probably use a different brand of SSD on the 5,1 for boot purposes.
LucMac
macrumors member
Hi!
Never heard of these problems mentioned here before.
I've owned a 5,1 until last week with one 860 Pro and one 870 Evo Samsung SSD.
The 4TB 870 Evo is my data-drive and I've installed it in my "new" Mac Pro 7,1.
The 870 Evo doesn't show up after restarts, which seems to be a known issue.
Should I just connect it via USB-adapter that came with my SONNET Fusion Flex J3i?
Is there a big difference speed-wise? (SATA vs. USB)
Second question:
The Evo is APFS fomatted. System profiler says TRIM is disabled.
Is TRIM still neccesary? Should I enable it?
x Lucas
Never heard of these problems mentioned here before.
I've owned a 5,1 until last week with one 860 Pro and one 870 Evo Samsung SSD.
The 4TB 870 Evo is my data-drive and I've installed it in my "new" Mac Pro 7,1.
The 870 Evo doesn't show up after restarts, which seems to be a known issue.
Should I just connect it via USB-adapter that came with my SONNET Fusion Flex J3i?
Is there a big difference speed-wise? (SATA vs. USB)
Second question:
The Evo is APFS fomatted. System profiler says TRIM is disabled.
Is TRIM still neccesary? Should I enable it?
x Lucas
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LucMac
macrumors member
I've sortet out problem #1, just switched the SATA-port from 2 to 1 on motherboard.
Now the Evo 870 also shows up on reboot.
Last and important question:
Should I enable TRIM or not? I'm reading different things here and there.
It's obviously not a boot-drive, just for storage.
Would like to know it from you Alex, since you've helped me out multiple times for the last decade 😉
Thank you!
Now the Evo 870 also shows up on reboot.
Last and important question:
Should I enable TRIM or not? I'm reading different things here and there.
It's obviously not a boot-drive, just for storage.
Would like to know it from you Alex, since you've helped me out multiple times for the last decade 😉
Thank you!
tsialex
Contributor
870 EVO is not exactly perfect with Macs and there are some reports suggesting that TRIM should be off with 870 series, but you should test and see if works for your config. If boot times suddenly become much greater, disable it.
Alpha Centauri
macrumors 68000
I've found that, problems with older Macs. Couple years ago tried to install a 2TB 870 EVO into a mid 2009 MBP as a secondary internal drive, even as primary internal and had all sorts issues, mainly higher memory pressure just idling. In my case think the EVO firmware just didn't support such an old Mac. That or it didn't like the Catalina patch but that SSD got returned after all the hassle but the 850 EVO in it still going strong.
the 870 series have problems even in PC boxes. Low quality is another issue, they seem to just die. its better to get another brand or older samsung like 860 or older.
tsialex
Contributor
For sure 870 QVOs die like flies when people use it as a non-archival disk. Can't say that is a quality issue, probably more a wrong tool for the job.
MacPro 4,1 flashed to 5,1. I've had a Samsung 4TB 870 EVO since Sept 2023 without issue. No warm reboot fails. TRIM is enabled.
OpenCore Legacy Patcher is installed on the EFI partition of the 870 EVO, so a reboot fail would be very obvious. No OCLP boot picker, and no booting into anything after Monterey.
4TB EVO is in Bay 1. There's also a Mushkin SSD in Optical Bay 2, and a Seagate HD in Bay 3. Plus M.2 sticks tried in various slots. Perhaps my 870 EVO came from a lucky batch. System Profiler reports Revision SVT02B6Q, which might be the firmware version.
OpenCore Legacy Patcher is installed on the EFI partition of the 870 EVO, so a reboot fail would be very obvious. No OCLP boot picker, and no booting into anything after Monterey.
4TB EVO is in Bay 1. There's also a Mushkin SSD in Optical Bay 2, and a Seagate HD in Bay 3. Plus M.2 sticks tried in various slots. Perhaps my 870 EVO came from a lucky batch. System Profiler reports Revision SVT02B6Q, which might be the firmware version.
Samsung is offering a firmware update for 870 EVO SATA drives. Firmware version SVT04B6Q. It appears to fix the vanish-on-reboot bug for Classic Mac Pros.
Since my last post, I've moved my 4TB 870 EVO to bay 4. And consistently seen the vanish-on-reboot bug. Even though OCLP boots from that drive, macOS does not see the volumes after warm reboots.
My config:
SATA bay 1: media hard drive
SATA bay 2: empty
SATA bay 3: empty
SATA bay 4: 4TB 870 EVO (OCLP installed)
optical bay 1: 1TB Mushkin SSD (Windows, Linux)
optical bay 2: blu ray drive
PCIe McFiver, with M.2 sticks (primary boot drive)
Yesterday, I booted into Windows to do software updates. And Samsung Magician offered a firmware update for my 870 EVO. SVT02B6Q -> SVT04B6Q. I applied the update.
Since then, I've done one cold reboot, and 5-6 warm reboots. My volumes on the 870 EVO have appeared after every reboot.
Could someone else test this too? I don't have another 870 EVO for comparison testing. My other Samsung EVOs turned out to be 860s, which explains why I hadn't seen the issue on those drives.
Since my last post, I've moved my 4TB 870 EVO to bay 4. And consistently seen the vanish-on-reboot bug. Even though OCLP boots from that drive, macOS does not see the volumes after warm reboots.
My config:
SATA bay 1: media hard drive
SATA bay 2: empty
SATA bay 3: empty
SATA bay 4: 4TB 870 EVO (OCLP installed)
optical bay 1: 1TB Mushkin SSD (Windows, Linux)
optical bay 2: blu ray drive
PCIe McFiver, with M.2 sticks (primary boot drive)
Yesterday, I booted into Windows to do software updates. And Samsung Magician offered a firmware update for my 870 EVO. SVT02B6Q -> SVT04B6Q. I applied the update.
Since then, I've done one cold reboot, and 5-6 warm reboots. My volumes on the 870 EVO have appeared after every reboot.
Could someone else test this too? I don't have another 870 EVO for comparison testing. My other Samsung EVOs turned out to be 860s, which explains why I hadn't seen the issue on those drives.
Alpha Centauri
macrumors 68000
Sorry I don't have advice, I've posted my 870 woes here on this very thread a couple of times., returning that drive. I was having dramas with high memory pressure whilst idling both as a boot drive and a secondary living in the CD slot of my MBP.
I did get excited there was a vs 9 (from 8) to Samsung Magician now (Mac version) as I have multiple Samsung NVMe's for DAS in various external housings. Big surprise to see that:
1. there's still only read-only support, no temps, diagnostic or firmware capability.
2. DL of the Magician App is now only possible to: /users/name/Library/ApplicationSupport/Samsung/SamsungMagician
with a Reference to the icon on the Desktop. Version 8 I actually had living in the App folder of MacOS but this doesn't seem possible now?
Having spoken to Samsung many years ago about the Mac version of Magician, they were proud of developing it, giving it firmware capability in the future but looks like not much has changed.
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After some further testing, the new firmware is not a complete fix. The 870 EVO partitions appear a majority of the time after warm reboots. But not every time. It's still way better than before.