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OldCorpse

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Dec 7, 2005
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I have to say, I'm puzzled by why CCC is considered a good app. I bought it. I regret buying it. I never had these problems with SD.

I can't even get it to install properly. It asks to install a "helper", the dialogue box asks for my administrator password, I input it, and then it asks again. And again. And again. It's a loop. The help section says to "Grant full disk access to CCC", but that option is grayed out, so that's zero help. Then asks to restart the computer and try again. Did that. Same situation after a restart. I'm on Sonoma 14.1.2 and 15" M2 MBA 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD.

This app is garbage. The help desk is silent, but to be fair, it's probably night over there, so I can't expect any emails.

I did something stupid. I set up a big copying project of one EXTERNAL HDD to an EXTERNAL SDD, the data is about 2TB. I thought it would just be as easy as hooking up the drives and opening CCC. That's how I did it for years in SuperDuper. Big mistake. The stupid part was setting up a time-sensitive project using new software I've never used before. My bad.

So this post is just a PA for anyone else out there - don't make my mistake and try a new app for time-critical tasks. You should always make sure the app works first, don't trust that it will, TRY FIRST. Lesson learned.

The h*** with CCC. I'll try SD. $50 wasted.

UPDATE: right after posting the above I downloaded SD, paid for it (half of the CCC price) and within minutes was copying the drives. No “helper” needed to install (that’s impossible to install, lol). SD is user friendly. CCC is user hostile. That’s MY experience, your’s may be different, that’s cool, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I certainly will never recommend CCC, but will SD. If I had to rely on CCC, I’d be SOL right now on a time sensitive project. SD saved me. YMMV.
 
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OldCorpse

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To give credit where credit is due, and for the sake of scrupulous fairness, CCC did contact me by email now, so they’re definitely responsive outside “business hours”, which I’m surprised by and appreciative of.

Since the SD copying is plugging along, this is no longer urgent and I’ll deal with it tomorrow morning.

So something positive to report: very responsive customer service.
 

OldCorpse

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You are in the minority. CCC is solid and worthy of respect. Griping about buying software w/out trying it first when there is a 30-day trial is ridiculous.
Yes, I acknowledge that I made a mistake in using new (to me) software on a mission critical project without trying it first. I said so in my first post. I assumed based on my old memories of how SD used to work, and on the extensive praise of CCC, that it would be a painless and straightforward process, so I didn’t bother to try it first - a huge error in judgement. I was wrong, it was not a smooth process, it was a dreadful experience.

My immediate move to SD confirmed that it’s as user friendly as my memory of it from back in the old days.

I may be in the minority in my experience of CCC, but it is also true that a back to back use of both SD and CCC clearly revealed TO ME, that one is user friendly and one user hostile. That’s indisputable, as I just went through it. **And as I said, others may have a different opinion**.

Based on that, I don’t feel it’s wrong for me to gripe about the installation process, because it’s the truth - as a matter of fact, I’ve installed a lot of apps in the last few days (new MBA) and CCC is by far and away the worst (in fact it failed). That is a fact - shouldn’t I have the right to report truthfully on my own experiences?

That said, I made a mistake in not testing it first and assuming that it would be as easy as SD. I fully acknowledge that, and in fact urge others not to make my mistake, which was the point of the original post - just because CCC is widely praised, doesn’t mean it won’t be a garbage experience for you if you’re unlucky. So always test first. YMMV.
 
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Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
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I've used both SuperDuper and CarbonCopyCloner.

One thing I've noted over the years, is that with each new version, CCC becomes harder to use. It gets more complex, and I can see how a new user might have trouble with it (these days).

SuperDuper, on the other hand, remains one of the "easiest to use" apps out there, and does what it says it will do.

I still use both, but that's my observation.

In particular... CCC makes doing a full (bootable) clone both difficult and "hard to find" in the menu system. Whereas with SD, it's EASY.

Mr. Bombich, FIX this.
 
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OldCorpse

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CCC is not user hostile. You just didn’t set it up like the program needed. If you had, it would have worked fine.
See, this illustrates a fundamental difference in approach. “You didn’t set it up like the program needed”. That’s one approach - it’s in the tradition of ‘the user adjusts to the needs of the program’. This was the early engineer approach where the engineers built it and let the user worry about how to use it. It is exactly what Steve Jobs opposed.

Apple’s way is the opposite. SJ pioneered the modern way, the user-centric way. We build the product around the user needs, the program adjusts to the user, not the other way around. This is why SJ emphasized “intuitive” - that’s from the user’s perspective and intuition of how the program should work.

Traditional way: thick manual full of arcane procedures - you NEED the manual, because nothing makes intuitive sense. You can’t figure it out, you must read the instructions, because there is no other way.

Modern way: throw away the manual. The program should be self explanatory. SJ famously hated manuals. You open the program (or product) and IT JUST WORKS.

There are two kinds of users. The tinkerers who lovingly spend hours in the guts of devices and the ones who have no interest in that and just want to use it. SJ’s philosophy was the latter: the guts should be invisible to the user.

The tinkerers tend to gravitate to windows, linux and other platforms where fine grained control and tinkering is the point. Those for whom a computer IS JUST A TOOL tend to gravitate to Apple.

It’s the guy who spends the weekend under his car working on it, and the other guy who just wants to drive the car.

Something goes wrong. One guy: “that’s interesting! I bet if I changed X, Y or Z, it would zip along!”. The other guy: “what is this crap?! I need to get to X, Y, or Z, get this thing to the mechanic, I don’t have time for this sh|t!”.

Different philosophy.

You say: “You didn’t set it up like the program needed”.

I invert this and say: “The program didn’t set up like I needed.”

Neither is “wrong”. It’s just a different approach. I don’t have the time or interest in tinkering with my tools. I use them to accomplish what I need, and have no interest in what “the program needs”.

Sadly, many techies have contempt for users. Like I witnessed - the IT guy at the hospital who laughed at how computer illiterate the doctor was. Yeah, doesn’t mean the doctor was dumb, he happened to be a world class cardiologist. He just doesn’t focus on computers - but he can do things you can’t Mr. IT guy. It’s a question of focus. Everyone has their own interests.

It would be wrong for the cardiologist to criticize the IT guy because he can’t do a bypass surgery, equally as critisizing the doctor for not “setting up the program the way it needed”.

The instinct for many in the old way of program design is to criticize the USER for not using the program “correctly”.

The modern way, is to criticize the PROGRAM for not doing what the user needs. It is understanding that most people don’t specialize in your area of interest, and that’s OK, just as you don’t specialize in their’s. So make the tool user friendly, so ALL users can use it not only some.

You critisized me for not using CCC correctly. You blame the user.

But why is it that I, the user, can install and use dozens of programs with no trouble at all, and yet MYSTERIOUSLY become “incompetent” with this one program? Maybe because it’s not the user at fault, but that one program?

Perfect illustration. I spent a lot of time this morning trying to finally get CCC to install. I succeeded, though I was unhappy to waste so much time. OK. Now I wanted to use it. Overnight, SD nicely copied the contents of my 8TB HDD to my 4TB SSD (it was about 2TB of data). Now I wanted to CLONE my 4TB SSD to another 4TB SSD. I tried to do it in CCC. I spent 20 minutes trying to figure out how to do that. The only options CCC would give me was to copy files, perhaps incrementally, as “backup”. That’s it in “tasks”. I saw some option in another menu to “duplicate”, but no details on what that would entail. Would it clone? I spent a lot of time reading the help section (i.e. manual). I couldn’t find the answers and I was running out of time.

I gave up on CCC, and fired up SD. Immediately I found exactly what “I” needed and not what the “program” needed. SD is working in the background and I’m taking time out to write this post, because I see so much “blame the user” around here, and wanted to provide another perspective.

So what is the difference between SD and CCC? SD is Apple-like and user friendly. CCC is un-Apple like and user hostile, just like those who blame the user. But the user is not at fault, this particular user (me) chooses Apple as a platform for a reason. I just want it to work. CCC doesn’t work for me, SD does. To each their own.
 

wmorrison1967

macrumors newbie
Dec 14, 2023
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I have an issue with CCC cloning by 5,1 Monterey 12.7.2 with OCLP (1.3) from a Samsung 860 QVO to Samsung EVO870. When it finishes it report all is well but the clone disk is not bootable. Any suggestions?
 
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